Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #6

[carriebooboo]

I don't understand why they didn't withdraw more cash before Victoria was born.

Everything about this case screams mental health issues. Hard to understand why it's not being brought up.

 

[lampielooloo]

I feel like her mother is attending for a first hand account, to cut out the middle man of the press, given the reporting restrictions and the general lack of info in the press day to day. Maybe her brother is there for the same, or perhaps he's just supporting his mother.

My opinion is that their estrangement and lack of communication has led them to court in person, I mean hiring a private detective is sort-of a last resort isn't it, to find out what's going on with someone who won't otherwise engage with you. Who knows their motivation for wanting a first hand account really, be it concern for CM, or concerns for themselves, their image and money. Maybe they're wondering the same as us, how the absolute f*ck did she get to this point.

 

[Allmyownopinion]

I find it more odd that she’s so desperate to shoe horn her adoration in for him when being interrogated about her child’s death! Yes she’s being asked how long they’ve been together etc but it’s like she’s so obsessed she’s using it as a chance to tell their imaginary love story, who bloody says to a room of police that he’s your soulmate crap! Just shows you the level of obsession she has for him, literally fixated on him & no one else the completely rotten nutcase!

 

[pommobear]

They clearly had no real interest in keeping their kids. I can't imagine being told that my child would be removed if I didn't do X and then NOT doing X.

 

[Asterix]

"Gordon suggested Marten was suffering from “a post-traumatic thing”.

“She is a very special person. She’s an awesome woman and she would never do anything to harm a child under any circumstances,” he said.

He told police that they had wanted to “safeguard” the child, the “whole thing” was for her and what happened could not have been predicted.

Gordon told officers: “What have I done that you don’t think is right here?

“I have done everything I think right. If you listen to me, I have done nothing really wrong. I have supported my wife. Tried my best to be a husband.

“And I don’t think she has done anything wrong, actually, in trying to take care of her child.”

He added that Marten was a “beautiful, intelligent woman” and he was a “man who loves his wife”."

Fugitive aristocrat was a good mother and did nothing wrong, partner told police

Gordon suggested Marten was suffering from ‘a post-traumatic thing’

www.independent.co.uk

Wowsers. Did nothing wrong and the outcome couldn't be predicted? The outcome was more likely than not the longer they messed around in that tent, ffs.

 

[Bleekemolen]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but there is another podcast, Fresh From The Old Bailey, that has done a couple of episodes on this case.

There was a freelance reporter on one of the episodes who gave some insights as to how CM comes across in court, their behaviour together in court, some examples of the questions the jury have asked, how CM has not acknowledged her Mother and Brother in court.

I found it interesting to listen to. I’m going to try and go if they go on the stand. From the sounds of this podcast, they certainly seem to think that MG will.

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

To me MG is a rapist. I know in the eyes of the law he’s paid his price but in my eyes he’s never anything else. This would be how I’d view anyone in my real life too. A rapist can’t change to me it’s inside them, it’s who they are.

(Quoting from the end of the last thread to reply here)

His past is a huge worry. I can understand why her family were concerned.

It’s also a puzzle because that was such a horrific crime, when he was so young, did he really just get deported back to the UK and get his head down and work? How do you go from violent rape at 14, to never in any trouble again? (Current case notwithstanding)

I still wouldn’t leave my children with him.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

It’s strangely convenient the baby (allegedly) died when they were both asleep. Then their acceptance can be partially explained as nothing could be done to bring her back.
But what if they were not asleep?
We only have their word about what happened.

 

[sebanna]

The strange thing about the dummy: they went to Boots and that was the only baby related item they bought. If they were prepared, to risk going to shop with CCTV and buying a baby item, why not purchase some essentials, nappies, baby wipes, Muslim squares? A proper sling would have allowed her to carry Victoria safely but instead she used a makeshift one, where she could be fallen out or be smothered against CM's chest. They did actually have the means and opportunity to get her some of what she needed but chose not to.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I knew her family were abusive. This is going to be where it starts coming out I’m sure. Also maybe explains why they’re attending -to keep a watchful eye.
So we have a family who send their daughter to boarding school then to a cult to be sexually assaulted. Background of serious mental health problems. Total financial reliance on them.
Then she gets some independence in the form of her grandmother dying and the trust fund. She can leave them so she fleas. The family use PIs to track her.
She meets MG- and highly likely she would be attracted to an abuser, if that’s all she’s known. The family find out, there is conversation mainly around the money.
the family dedicate themselves to getting her back under control, including reporting her to social services- maybe in a mix of control and concern. It works, or at least CM MG think it’s worked, and so begins the life on the run trying to have babies in secret.

 

[mightytwins]

Her brothers appear to be stable and functioning though?

You don't know for sure what, if any, difficulties her brothers deal with due to their upbringing.
There is also the concept of the window of tolerance when it comes to trauma - everyone's window is different and we will all react differently to the same level of trauma.
Not to mention it's common in abusive families for a child to be the 'scapegoat' while another is the 'golden child' - before we even bring gender into the question, they might have been treated differently just for being boys.

 

[Unicorn_Poop]

I think the contact centre evidence will be very damning in terms of contradicting their portrayal of doting parents

 

[whitershadeofpale]

I think that today’s evidence will have sealed the deal for the jury. Their behaviour obviously led to or massively contributed to Victoria’s death and they can even claim ignorance of that fact. They knew the risks but still chose to put her at risk of death.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I don’t think anyone can now suggest they didn’t have the financial means to provide the basics to prevent a baby dying of neglect.

 

[WurstHunde]

I just don’t understand why when Victoria passed they didn’t just admit defeat and hand themselves in. They’d lost the whole reason they were on the run. What other end would there had been especially when they knew the media had published their photos everywhere that the police would get them. They probably knew Victoria has passed away too long when they realised but apparently still tried to resuscitate her

I think this is the clincher for me. Had they turned themselves in when Victoria died, and said they wanted a post mortem to find out why, I might feel a small amount of sympathy. By carrying on as normal but with a dead baby crosses the line into completely heartless and culpable.

 

[MmmB777]

So Gordon didn’t believe that the baby was dead and they hysterically did CPR sure. Not a single loving parent in this world that wouldn’t race their baby to help if that were the case. Utter bullshit.

 

[chocdrop]

BIB - I'm struggling with this too. I completely understand about there sometimes being a delayed response to trauma, but I'm not convinced in this case. The year abroad adds to my cynicism, as being in a foreign country on her own so soon afterwards would be extremely difficult, maybe even re-traumatising, for most people.

I think it all shouts "mental health" - Things like schizophrenia which are cyclical would account for massive swings in personality, from seemingly well to very unwell with a complete lack of awareness.....as would being medicated and stopping (which is also classic for schizophrenia!, when "well" there is a tendency to not believe themselves ill and stop medicating)

You have that facebook picture at a train station with one of her (subsequently removed) kids looking well, healthy and frankly like someone who could have been Tatlers "babe of the month" then the reports of her living in a tent surrounded by bottles of urine....That entirely squares will going from living in a cult in Nigeria to a highly academic degree, to being Babe of the month, to being partner of MG etc etc.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

There’s co-sleeping and there’s co-sleeping.
If you’re off your face on drink or drugs while co-sleeping that’s an obvious aggravating factor. Likewise if you’re in a tent at -4.3 degrees.
I’m not really buying her story, especially as MG has said they were thinking of handing the baby in the day before they say she died.

 

[ChiaraRimini]

This. Its strange how those who are anti SS, and have involvement with them, always fixate on one thing as being the reason their kids were taken away rather than seeing the whole picture. Maybe the window thing did contribute but I bet that wasn’t the ONLY factor.
I went to school with someone who had heavy Ss involvement with her kids as she just couldn’t cope. When they finally got taken away she posted on Facebook about them being taken because she couldn’t afford new carpet but in reality it was their living conditions being absolutely awful. They were never clean or looked after, house an absolute state as she was more interested in finding new men. But no, they were only taken because she couldn’t afford new carpet in her eyes.

Exactly. If anyone says that SS took their kids away “just because their house was a bit of a mess”, you know there’s a long list of other problems they are in denial about or don’t want to admit to.

 

[Here2BNosey]

OK I think I have maybe made the dummy point really badly, it's not about whether you, I or anyone else did or didn't use a dummy whether breastfeeding or not. It was about the fact THEY chose that as the 1 item to buy over anything useful such as a coat, hat, blankets, sling etc. But they made bad decision after bad decision so shouldn't really surprise me at all. Anyway apologies I feel like I'm maybe derailing the thread slightly so I will leave it now.