I wonder how many of Marten's fans would let their baby/child spend any time in her "care"? It's easy to follow the pack and post sympathetically online but past history and having 4 older children removed speaks volumes. This pair aren't victims of a cruel system. They are a toxic nightmare in terms of defiant reproduction.
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whitershadeofpale
Active member
It may be too soon to look at it this way but my opinion based on the limited reporting that we had was that the prosecution over complicated things. I don’t think there was compelling evidence that the dates of birth/ death that CM and MG gave were wrong and I don’t think all of the stuff about Co-sleeping was that relevant. I think a more streamlined argument that they behaved recklessly despite knowing the risks would have led to a guilty verdict. Even if the prosecution had agreed that Victoria was smothered rather than froze, it still could have been argued that that was totally foreseeable and as a result of her parents’ neglect.
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Good point. In that case I’m not sure.With Letby though, the charges were all on different crimes (babies) so I think each one was standalone in effect.
This time all the charges were the same crime. I don’t know if that makes a difference.
Haveyouanywool
VIP Member
Let’s hope they are re-tried, and have a jury who can all concentrate on the things they are ment to be concentrating on.
granny grumpsticks
Member
How can babyVictoria get justice now? That’s what everyone hoped for
I hope those vile toxic creatures aren’t allowed to just walk away, it’s awful
I hope those vile toxic creatures aren’t allowed to just walk away, it’s awful
gimmethattea
Chatty Member
Not the news I would have wanted (I wanted them guilty of everything without a retrial) but I think is the best outcome and although it's a long wait until march, when Victoria hopefully gets her justice, it's time where she cannot get pregnant again whilst in Custody.
If only they would learn. If they could accept Victoria's death was their fault and decide not procreate again. However this result will make them think their actions were justified all alone.
windowlickinggood
Well-known member
My feeling is that the prosecution were too specific in their version of events. There was no specific cause of death therefore it feels to me that had they run with the theory that simply by them being on the run, avoiding medical input, not having a safe and warm environment for the baby, THAT led to the baby’s death. Feels more convincing to me. And to say that co-sleeping is not in and of itself dangerous but that the way in which they slept with the baby was dangerous. And if they had been in more suitable accommodation with proper beds and warmth this whole situation would have been avoided. That their arrogance and self-importance was their priority not the safety of their newborn child.
Tofino
VIP Member
What’s frustrating is the possibility there might have only been two jurors who disagreed or were unsure, and the two that couldn’t continue were firmly guilty. I know there can be other variations and I suppose they can’t just let a whole trial collapse if one juror leaves, but it bothers me that the outcome may have been different based purely on circumstances of courts (delays)/juror availability.
bluecups
VIP Member
I don't think so. IIRC Constance's brother married a black woman who was welcomed into the family. I reckon they - quite rightly - objected to Gordon because of his criminal record.
Lynn’ssnazzycardigan
Chatty Member
The fact still remains that they were given ample opportunities to make change and get their children back from wherever they were allegedly abused. There is either a whole lot more to the story that we haven’t been told, or they’re just selfish horrible people who shouldn’t be parents because they prioritised their own lifestyle and relationship above the safety of their children. Your child should come first, even if it means you give up your partner and accept bundles of help from authorities. The standards are really not that high for keeping families together, you just have to demonstrate you can keep them safe and meet their basic needs, even if support is needed to achieve this.
I’m just speculating here but I wonder if they are claiming to be persecuted for having exposed some major failings of SS with regards to abusive carers and cover ups. It’s the only thing that could make it make sense to me, whether it’s true or not. It would explain why she rambled on so much and was told not to bring it up in regards to this case.
Exactly, I think the jury may have been confused that they had to agree with CPS version of events, but it didn't matter whether Victoria died of hypothermia OR suffocation, both were neglectful. She wasn't cosleeping in a bed having mitigated the risks, she had her in her thick coat while she sat upright in a TENT. Likewise all the stuff about when she was born - it really didn't matter. It was all just noise.
whitershadeofpale
Active member
If they reached a verdict on some charges then they should stand. It’s like the Letby case where one charge couldn’t be decided so there’s a retrial just on that one.
feistyoneanddone
Active member
When the news broke Sky News were clear that the jury had been unable to reach any verdicts on any of the charges and the emphasis was on “any”.
Kittycat86
Active member
The problem with a retrial is, will it result in the same outcome based on the same evidence given?
Will they be able to find a non bias jury that hasn’t already taken a keen interest in all the news headlines about it and formed an opinion before they walk in to offer a fair trial which could lead to an appeal?
They’ve spent almost 18months or close to that on remand, that’s almost half of the full sentence they were likely to be given if acquitted of murder and found guilty of negligence.
Everybody knows release is almost always half the sentence served.
These are the arguments that CPS will have to consider when looking at a retrial.
Is it worth spending more public funding on another trial when it’s not scientifically clear how she died then end up in another hung jury and dismissal which will be even more clownery.
The lovebirds clearly are at fault for the babies death but at what extent? Nobody truly knows other than themselves what happened in that tent and that’s where it’s a grey area.
A lot of evidence was redacted from public consumption so a lot of what is public has been interpreted with feelings.
It’s sickening that they are likely to walk free but the best outcome is licence for both and some sort of sentence for charges already agreed on.
Will they be able to find a non bias jury that hasn’t already taken a keen interest in all the news headlines about it and formed an opinion before they walk in to offer a fair trial which could lead to an appeal?
They’ve spent almost 18months or close to that on remand, that’s almost half of the full sentence they were likely to be given if acquitted of murder and found guilty of negligence.
Everybody knows release is almost always half the sentence served.
These are the arguments that CPS will have to consider when looking at a retrial.
Is it worth spending more public funding on another trial when it’s not scientifically clear how she died then end up in another hung jury and dismissal which will be even more clownery.
The lovebirds clearly are at fault for the babies death but at what extent? Nobody truly knows other than themselves what happened in that tent and that’s where it’s a grey area.
A lot of evidence was redacted from public consumption so a lot of what is public has been interpreted with feelings.
It’s sickening that they are likely to walk free but the best outcome is licence for both and some sort of sentence for charges already agreed on.
GrunkaLunka
VIP Member
Fuck sake
Haveyouanywool
VIP Member
Thank goodness they were found guilty on 2 charges, it would be hard to figure out why they couldn’t be, considering the Judge’s direction.
Thank goodness they’re being retried too, but please, please don’t let CM be allowed to bang on about Yurts and Western Norms. I’ve heard more than enough of that, thanks.
Thank goodness they’re being retried too, but please, please don’t let CM be allowed to bang on about Yurts and Western Norms. I’ve heard more than enough of that, thanks.
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I agree. The bones of CM testiomy may well have been correct. She went to sleep with the baby breastfeeding under the thick coat and woke to find she had accidentally suffocated her. However it wasn't an unforseen accident and Victoria was permanently at risk as her baby's ran from the authorities which would have kept her safe.
CabalofBolorneaise
VIP Member
I think there’s a good chance they won’t decide to go again. Unless they can really pull themselves together and get a judge and counsel who can just focus on this trial and set a realistic time scale they’re going to do it all again for the exact same result I’d imagine. And CM and MG’s lawyers are going to be alllll over whether it’s possible for them to have an unbiased jury next time given the podcast etc.Says on ITV prosecutors to decide “if” they will prosecute againso they could possibly walk out hand in hand completely free? She will be pregnant next month, so basically free to kill again
ETA: to me it sounds like they’ve not reached a verdict on anything. When LL’s finished they reported straight away they’d convicted her on X counts but couldn’t reach a verdict on the others so it was discharged. No mention of any of that in any of the coverage I’ve seen of this so my assumption is they didn’t get to a verdict on anything.
liv123456
Member
I’m still completely perplexed by the outcome. I’m really bloody hoping they go for a re trial because if they get off from this, how many others will run away from social services and end up killing their child? This case really needs to set a precedent to others who think their actions were okay
They killed Victoria through their shitty actions. I hope they suffer every day knowing she would still be alive now if she was in care. They are absolute scum.
They killed Victoria through their shitty actions. I hope they suffer every day knowing she would still be alive now if she was in care. They are absolute scum.