DianaBanana
Chatty Member
Aristocrat Constance Marten and Mark Gordon will face retrial over death of baby
Jury in previous manslaughter trial was discharged at the Old Bailey last week
There will be a retrial
- Notice
There will be a retrial
They are excused from jury duty for the rest of their lives. Let’s not forget the harrowing things they will have heard and seen that we are not privy to. The delays are not their fault and it will have taken over their lives to a great degree for months longer than it should have done or they ever expected it to.
Tell.A.Tale
Chatty Member
I don’t blame the jury here at all. This trial should never have gone on as long as it did. There were too many delays and that’s not on the jury. The courts are an absolute mess at the moment. Genuinely - A civil matter I was involved in took 3 years.
The justice, health and social systems have totally fallen apart.
And Victoria deserves justice.
That poor baby was failed so while she lived and continues to be failed after she has died
The justice, health and social systems have totally fallen apart.
And Victoria deserves justice.
That poor baby was failed so while she lived and continues to be failed after she has died
Last edited:
GrunkaLunka
VIP Member
These anonymous posts about things being hushed up sound a little bit conspiracy theoryish.
CM did try to allude to matters regarding her other children, and this was dismissed by the judge as it was not at all relevant to the death of Victoria. Perhaps some members of the jury were unable to get their heads around the job they had been given, and were getting hung up on whether the older children should have been cared for better and whether CM had reason to be such a terrible parent.
This trial was not for those older children, and so whatever has happened to them doesn't need to be explored further in this case, nor do the actions of SS or the police need to be picked apart here.
It wouldn't surprise me if this case fell apart because of one or two people on the jury who didn't have the intelligence to focus solely on what the judge had asked them to do. You don't need to 'solve the crime' or find any reasons or justification, just answer the specific questions that the judge has put to you.
CM did try to allude to matters regarding her other children, and this was dismissed by the judge as it was not at all relevant to the death of Victoria. Perhaps some members of the jury were unable to get their heads around the job they had been given, and were getting hung up on whether the older children should have been cared for better and whether CM had reason to be such a terrible parent.
This trial was not for those older children, and so whatever has happened to them doesn't need to be explored further in this case, nor do the actions of SS or the police need to be picked apart here.
It wouldn't surprise me if this case fell apart because of one or two people on the jury who didn't have the intelligence to focus solely on what the judge had asked them to do. You don't need to 'solve the crime' or find any reasons or justification, just answer the specific questions that the judge has put to you.
HotesTilaire
VIP Member
Came running here when I saw….total nightmare.
This is absolutely down to the Court system being overloaded, this kind of stuff happens everywhere but now it’s in public view. The schedule was too tight, the jurors became unavailable, the judge was missing days to sentence other cases.
Justice delayed is justice denied….
This is absolutely down to the Court system being overloaded, this kind of stuff happens everywhere but now it’s in public view. The schedule was too tight, the jurors became unavailable, the judge was missing days to sentence other cases.
Justice delayed is justice denied….
Tofino
VIP Member
Wow what a bloody mess.
I think next steps are for CPS to decide whether to go to retrial. I think they have to decide pretty quick (weeks at the most).
I’ll be surprised if they don’t. I feel like this was more an issue with court time. They lost 2 jurors. Significant gaps between deliberation days. It really shouldn’t be allowed during deliberations.
I think next steps are for CPS to decide whether to go to retrial. I think they have to decide pretty quick (weeks at the most).
I’ll be surprised if they don’t. I feel like this was more an issue with court time. They lost 2 jurors. Significant gaps between deliberation days. It really shouldn’t be allowed during deliberations.
MavisBeacon
VIP Member
If they're in custody it means they're not procreating, I guess. Glad they've been found guilty on two counts, fingers crossed for the retrial
DianaBanana
Chatty Member
What a fucking shambles
goldengyal
Well-known member
I gasped when I saw the BBC News notification but now the sadness is setting in. I don’t have the words.
InTheDollsHouse
VIP Member
I haven’t caught up yet.
I am honestly so upset that it’s come to this. They will have another baby. And another. And another.
They won’t engage with any support offered.
The cycle will continue.
I don’t blame the jury at all. They have heard details about all sorts of things and if they couldn’t reach a verdict, then it maybe isn’t as black and white as it appears from the outside.
We here have also had the absolutely invaluable space to discuss, disagree, listen to others’ thoughts and opinions, change our minds, change them back again. And to make assumptions on what we didn’t know.
I hope they are given sentences for concealment of birth and perverting the course of justice, because that is what the judge said wasn’t in question. HOWEVER - surely it still has to be formally decided by the jury? If they didn’t agree on secretly disposing of the body (or similar wording) then they couldn’t have found guilty on perverting the course of justice, could they?
It may also be kept under reporting restrictions in case they do go for a retrial, because guilty verdicts could influence a new jury.
It’s so hard. I have felt all along that the body was kept because, when it came to it, they couldn’t go through with whatever plans they had, but the fact of not admitting to where she was absolutely also shows (IMO) that at that point they concealed her body to avoid charges.
I am honestly so upset that it’s come to this. They will have another baby. And another. And another.
They won’t engage with any support offered.
The cycle will continue.
I don’t blame the jury at all. They have heard details about all sorts of things and if they couldn’t reach a verdict, then it maybe isn’t as black and white as it appears from the outside.
We here have also had the absolutely invaluable space to discuss, disagree, listen to others’ thoughts and opinions, change our minds, change them back again. And to make assumptions on what we didn’t know.
I hope they are given sentences for concealment of birth and perverting the course of justice, because that is what the judge said wasn’t in question. HOWEVER - surely it still has to be formally decided by the jury? If they didn’t agree on secretly disposing of the body (or similar wording) then they couldn’t have found guilty on perverting the course of justice, could they?
It may also be kept under reporting restrictions in case they do go for a retrial, because guilty verdicts could influence a new jury.
It’s so hard. I have felt all along that the body was kept because, when it came to it, they couldn’t go through with whatever plans they had, but the fact of not admitting to where she was absolutely also shows (IMO) that at that point they concealed her body to avoid charges.
Jenmojito
Member
I wholeheartedly agree. My husband died in an accident at home and I replay that day over and find ways I could have changed the outcome. I feel guilt and I think that I always will. I know that when in court and on the stand, they (Clawclip connie) will have been advised not to admit guilt etc, but I think its only natural to blame yourself. Looking back at the Police interactions, the way Victoria was hidden and particular how she was found is very telling.......most people would be on their knees, blaming themselves but these two are so far beyond that. I find the arrogance astonishing. The absolute nerve of the pair of them.
KatieMorag
Well-known member
I'm beyond disgusted - no justice for poor baby Victoria. How much evidence did the stupid jurors need? They have had all their previous children removed into care. They were seen on CCTV handling their half dressed baby like a rag doll. They exposed her to the elements. They carried their baby's dead body around in a bag with actual LITTER on top of her. Disgusting monsters. Please please let there be a retrial - and a proper one this time not this absolute shitshow. I'm really gutted and angry.
MurielSnark
VIP Member
It's very upsetting to hear of these developments today but I would suggest this is more about the institutional dysfunction in the court system right now, rather than any conspiracies involving wealth and power. CM thanking the jurors is most likely just that -- not a sign of some bigger plot.
Of courses there are miscarriages of justice and sometimes guilty people do go free. It may be that CM and MG will too. But there's lots that hasn't been disclosed yet and certainly more will be revealed when the CPS announce what their next step will be.
If I worked for ITV, I'd be thinking about commissioning a true crime doc to dig into this case right about now and I feel certain we'll be treated to something on our screens before too long.
Of courses there are miscarriages of justice and sometimes guilty people do go free. It may be that CM and MG will too. But there's lots that hasn't been disclosed yet and certainly more will be revealed when the CPS announce what their next step will be.
If I worked for ITV, I'd be thinking about commissioning a true crime doc to dig into this case right about now and I feel certain we'll be treated to something on our screens before too long.
GalaxyGirl70
VIP Member
A child died because of their actions.
What sort of fucking injustice is this?
That child would now be thriving if she had been placed in care.
What sort of fucking injustice is this?
That child would now be thriving if she had been placed in care.
Emsie
VIP Member
Just my musings, but CM has said that her older child (or children?) were abused in Foster care and this could be what the cryptic posts are alluding to. It was glossed over at the trial, perhaps because there is an ongoing case about it, but she did say they were abused, spat on and had to move placements. And I *think* the older one is still in care and has not been adopted.
Imagine your child is removed from you, placed into a safe environment and then abused... would you be like CM then?! As a juror I would want to know more about this and it could affect the decisions that CM made going forward.
Imagine your child is removed from you, placed into a safe environment and then abused... would you be like CM then?! As a juror I would want to know more about this and it could affect the decisions that CM made going forward.
gimmethattea
Chatty Member
Someone may have already said this, so apologies if they had, but I wouldn't trust an anonymous Facebook post anymore than I trust Constance Marten and Mark Gordon.
WurstHunde
Member
I don’t think the anonymous poster on FB is a juror. At a stretch they may have been in the public gallery for a day or two like a poster here, but more than likely they are making up utter rubbish for attention like 90% of social media.
I don’t see what bearing anything that might have happened to the older children has on this case. Let’s not forget those children were removed from CM and MG because they weren’t caring for them. The fact they might have been abused in care would never have happened if CM and MG had parented them to an adequate standard. CM and MG’s actions towards Victoria were on trial here, not the possible actions of a foster carer.
I despair of a jury who couldn’t manage to separate the facts of this case from the vague allusions of what possibly happened to the children that were previously taken off them. No one has 4 children taken away because they’re a great parent.
I don’t see what bearing anything that might have happened to the older children has on this case. Let’s not forget those children were removed from CM and MG because they weren’t caring for them. The fact they might have been abused in care would never have happened if CM and MG had parented them to an adequate standard. CM and MG’s actions towards Victoria were on trial here, not the possible actions of a foster carer.
I despair of a jury who couldn’t manage to separate the facts of this case from the vague allusions of what possibly happened to the children that were previously taken off them. No one has 4 children taken away because they’re a great parent.
Badirene
VIP Member
This one picture tells me exactly how much they cared about that little baby. The pair of them wrapped up warm against the freezing temperatures, hats, scarves, padded coats while sitting inside and the baby is in a baby grow only.
She had access to the kind of resources most of us can only dream of, a trust fund, connections to all sorts of people and she let her baby die.
Poor baby Victoria never knew a minute of warmth, love, care, cuddles safe and secure, she lived her short life struggling to stay alive in freezing temperatures, when her short life ended she then was carried around as if she was rubbish in a bag, covered with refuse. This baby has had no justice. This entire thing has been a farce from start to finish.
She had access to the kind of resources most of us can only dream of, a trust fund, connections to all sorts of people and she let her baby die.
Poor baby Victoria never knew a minute of warmth, love, care, cuddles safe and secure, she lived her short life struggling to stay alive in freezing temperatures, when her short life ended she then was carried around as if she was rubbish in a bag, covered with refuse. This baby has had no justice. This entire thing has been a farce from start to finish.