Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #10

[iieee]

Think he was struggling to know what to say. It was also a bit weird when he started quoting from "Alice in wonderland", about believing in impossible things, and relating that back to CM buying petrol to have a DIY cremation. He was making the point ( I think) that the only logical reason for CM to buy petrol at that point was because her baby had just died. Therefore what the witnesses saw was impossible.
---

This was quite bizarre given the number of things Constance has said that can't be true. The sub zero footmuff, the disappearing car seat, the remotely exploded car,.. we could be here all day.

Then by contrast Constance being in Seaford is supposedly "unpossible" but evidenced by an eyewitness and a receipt from the golf course.

 

[spillallthetea]

On the BBC pod when one of the guys was reading out the list of positive attributes CM’s counsel used to describe he laughed a little, I thought it was very funny but telling given he actually sits in court everyday

 

[Bleekemolen]

@Bleekemolen are you going in today ? Good luck if you are

Not able to go today and have to work.

I think the next time that I will make it there will be for sentencing (if found guilty).

I think we will have a verdict by the end of next week.

 

[spillallthetea]

Not able to go today and have to work.

I think the next time that I will make it there will be for sentencing (if found guilty).

I think we will have a verdict by the end of next week.

Ah okay, yes I was thinking might have a verdict by tomorrow

 

[Secretbrillopad]

Not able to go today and have to work.

I think the next time that I will make it there will be for sentencing (if found guilty).

I think we will have a verdict by the end of next week.

Absolutely outrageous, don't they know you're doing the work of THE PEOPLE?!

 

[Asterix]

This was quite bizarre given the number of things Constance has said that can't be true. The sub zero footmuff, the disappearing car seat, the remotely exploded car,.. we could be here all day.

Then by contrast Constance being in Seaford is supposedly "unpossible" but evidenced by an eyewitness and a receipt from the golf course.

Yeah, dunno how that worked on the jury but it just brought to mind all CM's impossible tales for me. Also saying "she's not for turning easily" put me in mind of Maggie Thatcher which doesn't exactly invoke empathy.
---
New episode of The Trial up.

I feel like they know it's going to be a quick turnaround for the jury so they're clearing the decks before it's old news.

It was interesting to hear on FFTOB that the jury has had a jury room and been able to discuss the case all along. They'll also likely have come to some individual conclusions already given the closings have taken days and so much of CM's testimony was just round the houses waffle.

 

[Multi-21]

Have they been sent out to consider the verdict now?

 

[Asterix]

Doesn't look like it but it will (should) be today.

Constance Marten trial: Death of aristocrat and partner’s newborn a ‘tragic accident’

Marten and Gordon are accused of gross negligence manslaghter of the newborn

www.independent.co.uk

Edit: The re-enactment of Mr Fitzgibbon's closing on The Trial is giving me high blood pressure.

 

[odetotheseaweed]

Do you think there’s any chance they’ll get sent out, get into the room and someone says “right, anyone here think not guilty? Nope…. Ok let’s tick these boxes and off we go”

 

[jammybee]

Do you think there’s any chance they’ll get sent out, get into the room and someone says “right, anyone here think not guilty? Nope…. Ok let’s tick these boxes and off we go”

The podcast thought after 150+ questions it may mean they’re going to deliberate for a long time

 

[Asterix]

I don't see it taking long unless there's someone on the jury with kinda skewed thinking, much like the accused. They've had so much downtime to chew it over a bit in their minds and have their questions answered.

 

[Secretbrillopad]

Wish I could hear the tone of the judge's summing up.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Thanks for your input

Is that supposed to be really rude, or am I misreading it?

 

[sebanna]

Mr Little said no defence had actually been given for the first charge of concealing a birth and concealing a death so likely to be found guilty of those quite quickly.
I think if I was on the jury, I would be looking at the following questions, I'm not much of a camper but would CM at 5 foot 11 be able to sit up comfortably, enough to breastfeed, in such a small tent? How would they all physically fit in there to sleep? How could Victoria sleep safely and be kept warm? Where were they storing all the supposed warm clothes and nappies for her in a tiny tent?

 

[IcanSpellBéchamel]

I've just listened to today's episode of The Trial talking about Francis Fitzgibbon KC's closing remarks, and had to rewind the last few seconds twice. He really said "Mothers are not expected to be prosecuted for killing their children"!

Such an irresponsible thing to say, even in the context of tragic (but avoidable) accidents; if the evidence is there to support murder/manslaughter/causing or allowing the death of a child, then mothers should expect to be prosecuted for killing their children. Anything else is treating children's lives as disposable. I hope the jury will see it as the fiction it is.

 

[spillallthetea]

I don't see it taking long unless there's someone on the jury with kinda skewed thinking, much like the accused. They've had so much downtime to chew it over a bit in their minds and have their questions answered.

I think this too, so much time to ponder over it all, I think the amount of questions they asked was because of CM’s waffling and introducing evidence that wasn’t to be before the jury.

, I'm not much of a camper but would CM at 5 foot 11 be able to sit up comfortably, enough to breastfeed, in such a small tent? How would they all physically fit in there to sleep? How could Victoria sleep safely and be kept warm? Where were they storing all the supposed warm clothes and nappies for her in a tiny tent?

I’m of the same thinking , anyone been to a festival in a field with just your tent and the weather is unpredictable in the summer, the damp and the cold is unavoidable in a flimsy tent.
The lies regarding all of it how can they not be found guilty!

 

[Officedoor123]

Don’t get me wrong I liked how he handled her and I think she was a nightmare to cross on, but how he was with the expert witness was imho too much. I think up until that point he was doing really well, then he lost his tit!

You’re right it’s not his trial but when you go on a personal attack you look tit to the jury. People have massive respect for barristers, the wigs, the gowns and the pomp of court give you immediate kudos and a higher standing than anyone else there. You have the upper hand and when you’re good, you do everything to let the jury see the bad behaviour of the defendant(s) on the stand and then the connect to the crime isn’t that hard. If you show bad behaviour and bullying then the jury can really go against you. So whilst you’re right it’s not him on trial, he actually is under scrutiny and his behaviour really matters.

People have massive respect for barristers, the wigs, the gowns and the pomp of court give you immediate kudos and a higher standing than anyone else

Not everyone. Some people think the gowns, wigs etc are anachronistic rubbish and many barristers I've dealt with come across as arrogant God complex types.

 

[neroli]

I think this too, so much time to ponder over it all, I think the amount of questions they asked was because of CM’s waffling and introducing evidence that wasn’t to be before the jury.

I’m of the same thinking , anyone been to a festival in a field with just your tent and the weather is unpredictable in the summer, the damp and the cold is unavoidable in a flimsy tent.
The lies regarding all of it how can they not be found guilty!

I would be looking at the basics. No hat ,no protection from the cold in terms of baby clothes and blankets. No guarantees as to mother's commitment to breastfeeding whilst more interested in dodging authorities.

 

[sebanna]

I would be looking at the basics. No hat ,no protection from the cold in terms of baby clothes and blankets. No guarantees as to mother's commitment to breastfeeding whilst more interested in dodging authorities.

Hopefully the jury will stick to facts and not try to answer unanswerable questions like when was she born/died.

 

[Secretbrillopad]

Hopefully the jury will stick to facts and not try to answer unanswerable questions like when was she born/died.

There should be a hefty reminder from the judge on that before he sends them out. I remember it in the Letby trial he reminded them of what they needed to answer and what they didn't.

I mean, they came back asked if they could have a copy of his closing remarks but