Caroline Flack

[whathastheworldcometo]

But not of what he was currently being accused before his death. You can't pick and choose when it should apply
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Not comparing them, comparing the thinking behind "not prosecuted, therefore not guilty"

What was he accused of before his death? Trafficking and abusing underage girls? This is just a step up from being a pedophile.
Also, his wingwomen got convicted for aiding the crimes.

I did not say "not prosecuted, therefore not guilty".
But given that nobody was present (apart from CF and her ex) we cannot judge what has happened without having heard the case, and neither can the police. There might well be mitigating circumstances.

Comparing CF to Epstein is a very poor comparison.
CF was emotionally volatile and immature, Epstein was calculated and evil.
CF got violent in an emotionally charged domestic incident with her boyfriend, Epstein abused and exploited young girls over decades.

 

[femmegirly]

Heck, even Lewis as the victim didn't deserve the media circus that followed, at the time there was plenty of jokes about him being 'lamped' and the play on words....

I remember Samuel Hayes (an illustrator and total fool irl) was selling greetings cards with drawings of Caroline on them with the slogan ‘I’ll bleeping lamp you’ on Etsy. He's a total twit for a whole host of reasons but that just made a joke out of dv and added to the pile-on imo.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

What was he accused of before his death? Trafficking and abusing underage girls? This is just a step up from being a pedophile.
Also, his wingwomen got convicted for aiding the crimes.

I did not say "not prosecuted, therefore not guilty".
But given that nobody was present (apart from CF and her ex) we cannot judge what has happened without having heard the case, and neither can the police. There might well be mitigating circumstances.

Comparing CF to Epstein is a very poor comparison.
CF was emotionally volatile and immature, Epstein was calculated and evil.
CF got violent in an emotionally charged domestic incident with her boyfriend, Epstein abused and exploited young girls over decades.

It's only a "poor" comparison because you don't like me pointing out it's hypocritical what you are saying.

She attacked him while he was sleeping but in your eyes there "might well be mitigating circumstances" also you you typed " Yes, that's true. And let's not forget that there was no prosecution outcome yet. "

Both of those are direct quotes from you

 

[thegrumpos]

The media is a disgusting institution, they definitely went to town over her downfall. 100% they love to see a woman being ripped down. We’ve seen it time and time again how some celebs will get absolutely vilified (sometimes quite rightly) and others will get off a lot lighter.

That said, I’ve always thought “live by the sword, die by the sword”. CF courted the media when it suited her, she was part of that world. She chose to be in an industry where your every move would be under scrutiny, had relationships with very high profile men etc. She did not simply present her programmes then pop off for a nice quiet home life out of the spotlight. She craved and wanted the life she had and she accepted what it came with - even though it was no doubt awful at times.

Doesn’t mean in anyway that the media don’t have a part to play, they made that situation so much worse than it needed to be. However, the flip side of negative intrusive press is glamorous media events, paid for interviews, magazine spreads and articles etc. And that is what CF had used to elevate her career from regular presenter to “UK A list” friend of the stars.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

It seems to me CF had borderline personality disorder, she was clearly very troubled and needed extensive support, but from professionals not friends and family. It's deeply unfair for her family to imply CF could have been saved if her friends had not left that day. It's also wrong to downplay the seriousness of intimate partner violence, she could have killed her boyfriend by hitting him over the head as he slept. CF legacy now is to be a byword for not holding people in the public eye to account for wrongdoing, we must all "be kind" forevermore and not point out someone's wrongdoing just "in case".

Spoiler: BPD

• Fear of abandonment. People with BPD are often terrified of being abandoned or left alone. ...
• Unstable relationships. ...
• Unclear or shifting self-image. ...
• Impulsive, self-destructive behaviors. ...
• Self-harm. ...
• Extreme emotional swings. ...
• Chronic feelings of emptiness. ...
• Explosive anger.

The be-kind brigade are always the least kind.

 

[LaraQ]

It seems to me CF had borderline personality disorder, she was clearly very troubled and needed extensive support, but from professionals not friends and family. It's deeply unfair for her family to imply CF could have been saved if her friends had not left that day. It's also wrong to downplay the seriousness of intimate partner violence, she could have killed her boyfriend by hitting him over the head as he slept. CF legacy now is to be a byword for not holding people in the public eye to account for wrongdoing, we must all "be kind" forevermore and not point out someone's wrongdoing just "in case".

Spoiler: BPD

• Fear of abandonment. People with BPD are often terrified of being abandoned or left alone. ...
• Unstable relationships. ...
• Unclear or shifting self-image. ...
• Impulsive, self-destructive behaviors. ...
• Self-harm. ...
• Extreme emotional swings. ...
• Chronic feelings of emptiness. ...
• Explosive anger.

Agree.She screamed BPD to me.

 

[Mrsturnerreturns]

Agree.She screamed BPD to me.

For anyone who has worked with (or lived with) someone with BPD, it was extremely obvious that was what Caroline Flack had. I wonder if it had been diagnosed. I think the only thing that could have potentially saved her was proper m/h care. Sadly she didn’t live a life that was conducive to that. I always felt that it was inevitable she would take her own life. Feel very sad for her friends, especially the one with a child who must have been quite young at the time. However both of them seemed a bit like freeloaders so I do wonder if her mother has something valid to say around the circumstances in which she was allowed to take the opportunity to take her own life.

 

[Whatevesmate]

It's only a "poor" comparison because you don't like me pointing out it's hypocritical what you are saying.

She attacked him while he was sleeping but in your eyes there "might well be mitigating circumstances" also you you typed " Yes, that's true. And let's not forget that there was no prosecution outcome yet. "

Both of those are direct quotes from you

It's a poor comparison because Epstein was already convicted for child sex abuse crimes, was facing numerous serious criminal charges involving multiple victims and was consequently being held on remand. Flack was charged with one count of assault against one individual.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

It's only a "poor" comparison because you don't like me pointing out it's hypocritical what you are saying.

She attacked him while he was sleeping but in your eyes there "might well be mitigating circumstances" also you you typed " Yes, that's true. And let's not forget that there was no prosecution outcome yet. "

Both of those are direct quotes from you

We need to agree to disagree.

I cannot see how i am being hypocritical and my quotes do not contradict each other.

I just cannot compare an emotionally charged women with a systematic abuser.

Her boyfriend didnt even want to press charges and asked that the case will be dropped.

 

[Suzesnooze]

What was he accused of before his death? Trafficking and abusing underage girls? This is just a step up from being a pedophile.
Also, his wingwomen got convicted for aiding the crimes.

I did not say "not prosecuted, therefore not guilty".
But given that nobody was present (apart from CF and her ex) we cannot judge what has happened without having heard the case, and neither can the police. There might well be mitigating circumstances.

Comparing CF to Epstein is a very poor comparison.
CF was emotionally volatile and immature, Epstein was calculated and evil.
CF got violent in an emotionally charged domestic incident with her boyfriend, Epstein abused and exploited young girls over decades.

She admitted to the Police she hit him and she was worried about it going to court because the police cam footage would be shown. They also had the recording of Lewis phoning the Police and saying she had hit him. She was definitely guilty of assault.

 

[MammaTubbs]

A better comparison rather than Epstein would be Brad Pitt, who has been accused but not yet prosecuted of domestic violence.

In terms of discussion in the media and online, Brad and Caroline have had wildly different representions.

 

[OnlyHereForTheLolz]

A better comparison rather than Epstein would be Brad Pitt, who has been accused but not yet prosecuted of domestic violence.

In terms of discussion in the media and online, Brad and Caroline have had wildly different representions.

Yeah, Brad is a pos as well. He just can afford the best crisis management out there
---

We need to agree to disagree.

I cannot see how i am being hypocritical and my quotes do not contradict each other.

I just cannot compare an emotionally charged women with a systematic abuser.

Her boyfriend didnt even want to press charges and asked that the case will be dropped.

I didn’t say the quotes contradicted each other but that you claimed not to have said some of the stuff so you wete contradicting yourself. Hence why I quoted it. I can’t help it if you don’t comprehend any of this. Probably why you keep saying Epstains case is different. He wasn’t recently charged. His charges were OLD.
He had zero recent convictions

 

[MrsBsDayOff]

I saw the Ch4 documentary about her that was on a year or 2 ago. It was clear that she had serious mental/emotional issues going back to her teenage years. She was totally unsuited to a career in the public eye and all that goes with it.

 

[iknownothing1]

I do think that she killed herself due to the media mocking her, the upcoming criminal trial that she knew was going to be public, and the shame and hurt associated with losing her beloved job. She seemed to identify with her TV persona and she lost it.

As no trial has taken place it has not been found that she was really violent or even established what had happened that night. It is likely that she caused a scene, but we do not know what her boyfriend did and if she hit him with an object why she did it - although violence cannot be excused there can be mitigating circumstances.

So whilst she was a troubled and somewhat immature person I do not believe that she would necessarily have committed suicide.
This incident and what it did to her life was the reason.

Yes, a stronger person might not have killed themselves and gotten through this situation, but she couldn't deal with it.

Look at Blake Lively - she said in her lawsuit that the media reaction to her mean girl behaviour or her "cancellation" as she calls it caused her severe psychological harm. And she has a powerful husband, four children, tons of money and contacts, friendships with powerful people etc etc.
Caroline had her mother and sisters and friends, but was otherwise on her own and jobless and was facing a public criminal trial.

Mitigating circumstances? I’m sorry, but there are precisely zero and I mean zero mitigating circumstances for domestic violence. Or maybe this is a bit of misandry?

also her mum blaming the CPS and police saying they shouldn’t prosecute as she would kill herself. If they done it for her, everyone has a get out then.

 

[LaBlonde]

I saw the Ch4 documentary about her that was on a year or 2 ago. It was clear that she had serious mental/emotional issues going back to her teenage years. She was totally unsuited to a career in the public eye and all that goes with it.

yep. it was interesting to me in that documentary that both her mother and sister pretty much said that exact thing a few times - that she was too emotionally volatile and fragile to be able to cope with fame and the scrutiny it involved. she sounded like an absolute rollercoaster of a person, and all the extreme highs and lows that come with it.
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In terms of discussion in the media and online, Brad and Caroline have had wildly different representions.

i would argue that this is also because brad has the ideal distraction tactic (angelina, who is a little messy relationship wise and not a girls girl). even their thread here has people comparing their behaviour and that they’re both as bad as each other, as if that account of what happened on the plane and his violence doesn’t exist. it’s crazy to me.

as said above, brad can also afford what is apparently the best pr team in the game, and managed to win an oscar while all of it was still brewing.

 

[MammaTubbs]

Sadly time and time again we see people least equipped to fame actually living it, Caroline, Liam Payne, Amy Winehouse etc

It's a chicken and the egg situation, do they seek fame because of poor mental health? Or is poor mental health a result of fame?

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

Sadly time and time again we see people least equipped to fame actually living it, Caroline, Liam Payne, Amy Winehouse etc

It's a chicken and the egg situation, do they seek fame because of poor mental health? Or is poor mental health a result of fame?

Or is it their mental volatility that makes them so appealing and therefore famous?

 

[Rxt156]

Up until the assault I really don't remember there being much negative stuff in the press about her. I thought she was well liked in her Love Island host years anyway. I imagine the turn in publicity and looming court cast pushed her mental state over the edge and she couldn't handle it

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

Mitigating circumstances? I’m sorry, but there are precisely zero and I mean zero mitigating circumstances for domestic violence. Or maybe this is a bit of misandry?

From a legal perspective this is incorrect. Some mitigating factors can be mental state and provocation beyond what can usually be expected.

I do not think she was accused of a drawn out pattern of abuse against her ex, it was one volatile situation. Only those two were present.

 

[VeniVidiVicki]

She was a woman in the public eye who smacked a sleeping boyfriend over the head with a lamp. Of course there was press attention. She could have killed him.

I’m very intolerant of men’s violence against women but I’m equally intolerant of people refusing to take responsibility for their mental health. Everyone in her life tried to help her but she refused the help. She had the money and the opportunity to work on herself but she didn’t.

Suicide is only ever the choice of the person who chose to do it. No one should ever have to take responsibility for someone else’s death*

* excluding extreme torture situations obvs