Caroline Flack

[whathastheworldcometo]

Really weird that a couple of people on this thread is riding so hard for CF. Like do they have some skin in the game? Do they act the same in private? It's bleeping weird. She intentionally did something to him whilst he was sleeping, at his most vulnerable and unable to defend himself

Maybe empathy given that she was a troubled person.

I also find it strange that nobody finds it notable that he and his ex sold the photo of the bloody bed to the Sun.
I find this outrageous! He reported the incident to the police, then takes a photo and sells it to the Sun!

And CF still wanted to talk to him and seemingly missed him!
If someone would sell a private photo to the media I would never speak to them again and they would be dead to me.
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Everywhere at the time. Just google image Lewis Burton Caroline Flack injury

I googled and the Daily Fail article talking about the "scratch" comes up:

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...-tiny-wound-boyfriend-Lewis-Burtons-head.html

The coroner report said it could not be concluded which object was used, lamp, fan or phone.

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

can we all just agree that a partner hit another partner with a hard object whilst they were sleeping and the semantics of what it was and the method of hitting them is irrelevant as it is still domestic violence.

Yes, we can. I don't think anyone has said it isn't.

My point was more from the legal aspect and the motive that differs. It's the difference between ABH and a more serious charge for a start.

 

[ahtisyourself]

Maybe empathy given that she was a troubled person.

I also find it strange that nobody finds it notable that he and his ex sold the photo of the bloody bed to the Sun.
I find this outrageous! He reported the incident to the police, then takes a photo and sells it to the Sun!

And CF still wanted to talk to him and seemingly missed him!
If someone would sell a private photo to the media I would never speak to them again and they would be dead to me.
---


I googled and the Daily Fail article talking about the "scratch" comes up:

https://www.archive.is/https://www....-tiny-wound-boyfriend-Lewis-Burtons-head.html

The coroner report said it could not be concluded which object was used, lamp, fan or phone.

The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. It can be true that Lewis is a strange fish and a bit of a wrong un, and also true that what Caroline did was unacceptable and deserving of charges for assault. Again, it doesn’t matter what the object was; she admitted she hit him, in her own words she “whacked him around the head”, that alone is enough to be arrested and charged. It doesn’t really matter who she is or her past or that she was troubled. The law doesn’t discriminate. She admitted to hitting him, and was so volatile in the station that night that she flipped a table when being questioned. Sadly she was an unpredictable person with violent tendencies.

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

Maybe empathy given that she was a troubled person.

I also find it strange that nobody finds it notable that he and his ex sold the photo of the bloody bed to the Sun.
I find this outrageous! He reported the incident to the police, then takes a photo and sells it to the Sun!

And CF still wanted to talk to him and seemingly missed him!
If someone would sell a private photo to the media I would never speak to them again and they would be dead to me.
---


I googled and the Daily Fail article talking about the "scratch" comes up:

https://www.archive.is/https://www....-tiny-wound-boyfriend-Lewis-Burtons-head.html

The coroner report said it could not be concluded which object was used, lamp, fan or phone.

With respect to the photos, that is awful. Again we don't know what motivated him. Maybe he and the ex were close still and he panicked. Maybe she sold them without his knowledge.

It's also possible that he was a chancer who realised his gig was up and was out to humiliate her. This has always been my suspicion but my own life bias plays a part in that. Therefore, I try and step back from that and remember that he was younger than her and whilst had a brush with fame, wasn't in the public eye to the same extent.

Volatile, insecure people are not healthy people to have relationships with. It doesn't make her a bad person but there were clearly issues.

 

[MammaTubbs]

I think the 'Be Kind' mentality was and still is misplaced on occasion.
Whilst Caroline deserved to be held to accountable for her actions, she didn't deserve the amount of online hate and ridicule she received.
There's a massive difference between calling someone out for their bad behaviour and mistakes, and essentially making them temporarily public number 1.

 

[GingerSquid]

That's not being emotionally unstable though, if you can control and direct that instability against only certain people, that is just being abusive.

Did CF ever explode at work, did she ever act unstable in the workplace and lose opportunities because of that? Did she ever attack a coworker? I'm asking sincerely as I don't know much about her work history, but if she could control her reactions towards those who held more power than her, those that could inflict professional consequences then that speaks volumes.

My husband worked with a Producer who had worked with her and had very little good to say, sadly. I won’t say the actual words as she passed in sad circumstances.. but she wasn’t easy to work with unless you were in the clique.

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

That's not being emotionally unstable though, if you can control and direct that instability against only certain people, that is just being abusive.

Did CF ever explode at work, did she ever act unstable in the workplace and lose opportunities because of that? Did she ever attack a coworker? I'm asking sincerely as I don't know much about her work history, but if she could control her reactions towards those who held more power than her, those that could inflict professional consequences then that speaks volumes.

Possibly but again there's also other things that come into play. It isn't as straight forward as that.

My opinion, after reading her book, has always been that she was neurodivergent. Her description of childhood really spoke of that to me. Others recognise BPD traits. So, there was clearly something else going on. People are complex.

I think there were issues at work but then, it's also not unreasonable that they become inflamed in social situations. Lots of people hold it together at work only to fall apart at home.

This may be particularly relevant if substances are involved. From memory, she wasn't drunk but had taken substances or at least, was known to have done previously.
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My husband worked with a Producer who had worked with her and had very little good to say, sadly. I won’t say the actual words as she passed in sad circumstances.. but she wasn’t easy to work with unless you were in the clique.

That's what I think people don't realise. She clearly had something going on. She was also protected I think, to a certain extent. I wish people felt able to speak about things. People having difficult aspects to their personality doesn't make them bad people but neither do they require sainting.

 

[darkcherry14k]

I really don't like the downplaying of domestic violence here. Regardless of gender it's wrong, whether you have problems, personality disorders, your woman who's upset etc, it's wrong! Don't downplay it! Lewis was obviously scared enough to call the police, that's enough to tell me he was genuinely scared for himself or for her. He was asleep and was woken by being assaulted. She admitted she whacked him in her own words and people trying to downplay it! Heck she even flipped the table in the police station! She was obviously out of control and if this was a man doing it to a woman there wouldn't be any excuses being made. This was gonna play out in court and she couldn't handle it, she sounded like she couldn't handle being held accountable for her own behaviour at all, she sounded like she had been protected by a tight inner circle but she messed up and they couldn't cover this incident up it had got out and the media frenzy was just too big for it to die down, the damage had been done, and it was Caroline who had done the damage but couldn't deal with the consequences, it's really unfair with this blame game, this was all her own doing.

 

[GingerSquid]

She was definitely being protected before this all kicked off with Lewis and she couldn’t hide anymore. Similarly to Schofield and Corden, because she was a very popular presenter, allowances were made behind the scenes in all senses.

 

[Phil I Buster]

So do we just not prosecute people or hold people accountable for their problematic behaviour in case they die by suicide? “She’s unstable, we will give her a pass”

(being devils advocate!)

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

With respect to the photos, that is awful. Again we don't know what motivated him. Maybe he and the ex were close still and he panicked. Maybe she sold them without his knowledge.

It's also possible that he was a chancer who realised his gig was up and was out to humiliate her. This has always been my suspicion but my own life bias plays a part in that. Therefore, I try and step back from that and remember that he was younger than her and whilst had a brush with fame, wasn't in the public eye to the same extent.

Volatile, insecure people are not healthy people to have relationships with. It doesn't make her a bad person but there were clearly issues.

Yes, I also see it this way.

I also suspect that he was a bit of a grifter and sold the photos to make some cash and prioritised this over her feelings.

That she decided to be with such a person also says a lot about her. She must have had low self-esteem.
---

The two things aren’t mutually exclusive. It can be true that Lewis is a strange fish and a bit of a wrong un, and also true that what Caroline did was unacceptable and deserving of charges for assault. Again, it doesn’t matter what the object was; she admitted she hit him, in her own words she “whacked him around the head”, that alone is enough to be arrested and charged. It doesn’t really matter who she is or her past or that she was troubled. The law doesn’t discriminate. She admitted to hitting him, and was so volatile in the station that night that she flipped a table when being questioned. Sadly she was an unpredictable person with violent tendencies.

Of course that is correct. I don't think that anyone said that her hitting him was justified and acceptable.

The law does not discriminate, but allows for mitigating circumstances. If she saw something that looked like he had betrayed her - like with selling the photos to the Sun - and then she hits him with the phone in the heat of the moment any court will take into account that she was provoked and angered. This is different to her sneakily waiting until he sleeps and then strategically hitting him with a hard object in cold blood.

 

[Cosytidy]

Possibly but again there's also other things that come into play. It isn't as straight forward as that.

My opinion, after reading her book, has always been that she was neurodivergent. Her description of childhood really spoke of that to me. Others recognise BPD traits. So, there was clearly something else going on. People are complex.

I think there were issues at work but then, it's also not unreasonable that they become inflamed in social situations. Lots of people hold it together at work only to fall apart at home.

This may be particularly relevant if substances are involved. From memory, she wasn't drunk but had taken substances or at least, was known to have done previously.
---

That's what I think people don't realise. She clearly had something going on. She was also protected I think, to a certain extent. I wish people felt able to speak about things. People having difficult aspects to their personality doesn't make them bad people but neither do they require sainting.

I agree on the ND front. She sounded disorganised from childhood, suggestive of ADHD to me. Emotional dysregulation, reflection sensibility dysphoria & impulsivity linked to ADHD can present similarly to BPD.

 

[TwooTwooTwitTwitTwoo]

I really don't like the downplaying of domestic violence here. Regardless of gender it's wrong, whether you have problems, personality disorders, your woman who's upset etc, it's wrong! Don't downplay it! Lewis was obviously scared enough to call the police, that's enough to tell me he was genuinely scared for himself or for her. He was asleep and was woken by being assaulted. She admitted she whacked him in her own words and people trying to downplay it! Heck she even flipped the table in the police station! She was obviously out of control and if this was a man doing it to a woman there wouldn't be any excuses being made. This was gonna play out in court and she couldn't handle it, she sounded like she couldn't handle being held accountable for her own behaviour at all, she sounded like she had been protected by a tight inner circle but she messed up and they couldn't cover this incident up it had got out and the media frenzy was just too big for it to die down, the damage had been done, and it was Caroline who had done the damage but couldn't deal with the consequences, it's really unfair with this blame game, this was all her own doing.

I haven't read a single post that suggests it was OK or downplays it. Everyone appears to agree it was domestic violence and regardless of whatever issues she had going on there was a reason for her to be criminally charged. You can discuss circumstances surrounding a situation and someone's background without it meaning your are downplaying it. He was physically injured by an item that was thrown. Worse, he was asleep at the time. There's no disputing that.

 

[thegrumpos]

The inquest concluded that she likely killed herself because she could not face the media backlash, the bad publicity etc.

That is not the same as the media being responsible for her death.

her inability to cope with the media (in relation to her own actions) due to BPD / mental health issues / ongoing vulnerability is the reason she killed herself.

 

[Cosytidy]

I agree on the ND front. She sounded disorganised from childhood, suggestive of ADHD to me. Emotional dysregulation, reflection sensibility dysphoria & impulsivity linked to ADHD can present similarly to BPD.

That should say rejection sensitivity dysphoria. Can’t edit it. (Absolutely hate tattle’s autocorrect)

 

[Flowerpotgirl]

I really don't like the downplaying of domestic violence here. Regardless of gender it's wrong, whether you have problems, personality disorders, your woman who's upset etc, it's wrong! Don't downplay it! Lewis was obviously scared enough to call the police, that's enough to tell me he was genuinely scared for himself or for her. He was asleep and was woken by being assaulted. She admitted she whacked him in her own words and people trying to downplay it! Heck she even flipped the table in the police station! She was obviously out of control and if this was a man doing it to a woman there wouldn't be any excuses being made. This was gonna play out in court and she couldn't handle it, she sounded like she couldn't handle being held accountable for her own behaviour at all, she sounded like she had been protected by a tight inner circle but she messed up and they couldn't cover this incident up it had got out and the media frenzy was just too big for it to die down, the damage had been done, and it was Caroline who had done the damage but couldn't deal with the consequences, it's really unfair with this blame game, this was all her own doing.

And after it all went down, the prior boyfriend said something similar about her behavior. I don’t know the truth or falsehood of that, but it was interesting. I think she was afraid it would all come out, too.
---

Yes, I also see it this way.

I also suspect that he was a bit of a grifter and sold the photos to make some cash and prioritised this over her feelings.

That she decided to be with such a person also says a lot about her. She must have had low self-esteem.
---

- and then she hits him with the phone

*lamp
Not a phone. A lamp.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

*lamp
Not a phone. A lamp.

It really annoys me that I made the effort to search for the legal analysis of the coroner's report including the statements by the police and posted it here and the article clearly stated that the police could not determine whether he had been hit with a phone, fan or lamp - and then other people correct me but seemingly didn't even read the article - or the my post they are quoting from - or are in fact smarter then the police and have detective skills that are far superior and therefore know more than both police and coroner?

I described a possible scenario and she had stated that she had hit him with a phone and therefore that is what I had written in this posting.

 

[Flowerpotgirl]

It really annoys me that I made the effort to search for the legal analysis of the coroner's report including the statements by the police and posted it here and the article clearly stated that the police could not determine whether he had been hit with a phone, fan or lamp - and then other people correct me but seemingly didn't even read the article - or the my post they are quoting from - or are in fact smarter then the police and have detective skills that are far superior and therefore know more than both police and coroner?

I described a possible scenario and she had stated that she had hit him with a phone and therefore that is what I had written in this posting.

it really annoys me that you dont seem to be able to understand that it was what it was. Thats what HE SAID , and he was there.
No matter how many times you say the same thing, it doesnt make it any more true

 

[Suzesnooze]

Yes they couldn’t determine what was used to hit him but for him to have said lamp makes me think the lamp was smashed on the floor or wherever so he assumed that’s what had hit him when it woke him up? All the blood on the bed she later said was hers and this was due to her self harming, so the lamp was obviously smashed and she probably used some of it to self harm with.

Her fear of it going to court was the police cam footage being shown of her home and all the blood and obviously how she appeared when Police arrived.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

it really annoys me that you dont seem to be able to understand that it was what it was. Thats what HE SAID , and he was there.
No matter how many times you say the same thing, it doesnt make it any more true

He was ASLEEP! So even if this is what HE SAID it is not something HE COULD HAVE KNOWN, merely assume, as he was SLEEPING!
He could not have SEEN it as he was SLEEPING with his EYES CLOSED.
And the effing POLICE could not determine what object was used. They clocked that he said on the emergency call that he was hit by a lamp and that she said she had flicked a phone at him, but they could not determine the truth and even said it could have been a fan also.

No matter how many times you say the same thing it does not make it more true.

I would imagine the coroner and the police have a better understanding than you do.

Sorry, but if you are unable to read or understand my previous posts I will not correspond with you any further as it is a waste of time.
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Yes they couldn’t determine what was used to hit him but for him to have said lamp makes me think the lamp was smashed on the floor or wherever so he assumed that’s what had hit him when it woke him up? All the blood on the bed she later said was hers and this was due to her self harming, so the lamp was obviously smashed and she probably used some of it to self harm with.

Her fear of it going to court was the police cam footage being shown of her home and all the blood and obviously how she appeared when Police arrived.

This is what was said above. Maybe he assumed she hit him with a lamp, as a lamp was nearby/next to the bed, but he could not have known as he was asleep.

There was no "smashed" lamp in the photos.