Brianna Ghey Murder Trial #3

[Tofino]

This is trivial but I can't quite make it all fit. Does anyone know what Brianna's mum means when she describes her child in what seem to be contradictory ways?

Can you have anxiety and also be fearless? Can you be scared on the bus but also 'outgoing and very confident'? I feel we are being given two versions of Brianna -- a vulnerable mouse and a star on the brink of discovery -- and while I guess a teenager can be both, it does seem like going to two extremes.

I noticed the school made a similar statement.

The headteacher of murdered Brianna Ghey says the teenager "didn't live her life as a victim".

Emma Mills told the BBC: "There was never any evidence of Brianna being bullied within school or out of school.

"Brianna was very much able to give as good as she got in that way."

"And I think what was really hard was that she was portrayed in the media as a victim and she didn't live her life as a victim."

"She was someone that was loud and proud and confident in who she was," she added.

 

[nothinonyou]

Thought it was interesting in the podcast a doctor said X showed very typical traits of a psychopath but she can't be diagnosed as one as she is a child, which I know people pointed out here as well. However I don't know if she can ever change. If she gets 20 years she'll be out when she's 36 and based on what we heard, she will definitely kill again. There are no mitigating factors here whatsoever, the fact they went to the Park previously with the knife and Brianna cancelled, that wasn't enough to kind of give them a thrill of almost doing it and satisfy whatever interest it was. The blatant lying, blaming each other, the kill list, the written plan, the red rooms. I'm not surprised sentencing isn't this week because Justice Yip is going to throw the book at them both

 

[blueyfan3684]

I would bet a lot of money X will be diagnosed with ASPD when she is an adult. There is no cure and no treatment. A true criminal ASPD will never be able to feel and think the way they need to be a safe member of society. All you can do is manage them closely in the community.

People throw about the term psychopath so easily but it's incredibly rare. In my 15 year career I've only ever met 3 true psychopathic children (although they were never given that diagnosis until they were 18). You never forget them, they are haunting. And they all remind me of how Girl X spoke and conducted herself. That's why I've been saying from the beginning we are seeing something incredibly rare here. Granted if I met her IRL, I may have a completely different impression. I truly don't think she will ever be safe to the public.

I’m really intrigued by your line of work. What did the psychopathic children display as, what were they like? If you don’t mind me asking! I find it fascinating.

 

[fishyfishfish]

That is really lazy thinking.
How do you protect women and children if any male-bodied man can say he is a woman and should be in Womens prisons, wards, refuges?
How can you protect women if you cannot define what a woman is?
If anyone can identify as a woman then what is a woman?

Because men do not need to 'say they are women' to commit violent acts against women. They do it as men, every day, with no need to go to this length.

And as others have said, this is not the thread for this discussion, and therefore I will not be replying to any responses to this.

 

[pollypocket77]

Even though the boy and girl weren’t charged with a hate crime I do wonder if the boy would have attacked another victim if they weren’t trans, did Brianna being trans push him to commit the act? He’s made some awful transphobic comments and because of how severe the comments are I would say he’s definitely transphobic. I know there were other people on their list who weren’t transphobic but they never attacked them, Brianna was chosen and they decided to knife her several times.
I don’t know if I’m explaining myself properly so I apologise. I know that the crime isn’t being classed as a hate crime but I’m still wondering if the boy’s transphobic views played a part for him personally. Just speculating out loud here.

Some kids at 15 just dislike anyone different. Looks different, act different. Through choice or not. I think that was the main motivator, that & a perceived easy target. They would have definitely gone for someone else if not Brianna, I don’t think it would’ve been someone trans going off their warped kill list. Brianna was just the easiest target at the time

 

[Tofino]

Quoting song lyrics feels so deeply inappropriate to me:

---


I've posted this before but it bears repeating in this instance. Hate crimes are not as cut and dried as that (BiB). See below from The CPS:


Here "demonstrated hostility based on transgender identity" applies for Boy Y, regardless of the fact that this is not the reason he murdered her.

but it’s not been prosecuted as a hate crime? It is not on the indictment.

Police/CPS must believe the evidence is not strong enough to prosecute it as a hate crime, and I have to agree.

It’s possible sentencing guidelines may consider vulnerabilities or protected characteristics as an aggravating factor (such as someone with learning disabilities being a victim of a crime), but that’s not the same as it being a hate crime.

 

[Ellie_Rose]

Anyone who is attacked with a knife without expecting it will be at a great disadvantage because their guard will be down. One of the saddest things about this case is that Brianna thought she was hanging out with her friend and wouldn’t have had any idea about what would happen to her. Sadly I don’t think it would have been difficult for either of them to overpower her, especially if she was stabbed from behind.

 

[blueyfan3684]

Just catching up after work. I'm so glad justice has been done and now Briannas family can have some more peace.

Justice Yip has done a fantastic job and her decision to delay the sentencing, I feel is very sensible. She's right, she has to now look really carefully at both perpetrators and work out what they need in terms of a sentence but also in terms of support going forwards. They are clearly very very damaged individuals and if they are ever going to be released, they need that rehabilitation and support.

I sort of hope she doesn't name them as they too were/are vulnerable. I don't feel sorry for them but I think if you name them, they don't ever have a chance again. Unless they have a whole life order the possibility must be that they can be rehabilitated and supported when they are finally released. If they are names then this won't happen, I don't think. Unless they are given new identities.

I also think that like someone up thread said, X in particular might love the notoriety or being plastered all over the paper like the people she researched and obsessed over. By naming her she gets that.

I'm really torn about it. Do they deserve another chance or do they not? I'm really not sure.

I think the public safety and interest in this case outweighs any sympathy for the perpetrators in the case of not being named. I don’t believe they deserve another chance personally unless serious remorse and rehabilitation is achieved. I don’t care if they were vulnerable, they were young adults and knew exactly what they were doing. That issue can be dealt with when/if they are released.

 

[Jasminexx02]

I just think it’s a very odd thing to even speculate when there’s no evidence of it, it’s like clutching at straws to try give some sort of proof that there was some sort of hate crime committed here

 

[Tofino]

Why Brianna Ghey police quickly ruled out transphobia as motive

Killers’ messages led investigators to believe plot was not driven primarily by a hatred of Brianna’s transgender identity

www.theguardian.com

Interesting article particularly these final paragraphs - someone on Twitter was actually spoken to by the police about possible contempt of court and forced to delete tweets (he has now reposted them)

Although transphobia did not come up in the trial, the judge, Mrs Justice Yip, may consider it to be an aggravating factor when sentencing one or both of the teenagers. But she told potential jurors on the first day of the trial to put aside any “uninformed views” about Brianna’s killing.

She also took a dim view of online commentary about transphobia. After the case was opened, the prosecution complained about a tweet from the barrister Jolyon Maugham, the founder of the Good Law Project, saying the teenagers had exchanged “transphobic slurs”.

Yip said the tweet was potentially in contempt of court, a serious crime that has previously resulted in short jail terms for those judged to have prejudiced a trial. Heer said the prosecution had deliberately not used such terms in the presence of the jury.

Maugham was spoken to by police on behalf of the court and deleted the tweet, the court heard. Maugham told the Guardian: “Some weeks back I deleted several tweets about the trial. I also said to the judge I would – and I think it’s important to do this when you make a mistake – publicly apologise. I haven’t been able to do that until now, now the trial has ended. The issues I raised are very important but it was the wrong time for me to bring them up.”

 

[daisy2809]

thinking of brianna's family this christmas eve. the strength and composure they've shown has been second to none, and they should be exceptionally proud of themselves

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Had the numbers 20 and 22 come into my head. So think that's what they'll get.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Was it you that predicted the sentences in a couple of other trials and got it spot on?

Yes indeed it's been me.

 

[Elle Woods]

I don't see why the perpetrators should have the benefit of anonymity. Brianna's family didn't have the option of keeping their child anonymous as the victim of such a horrific crime, they had no choice in the fact that their child was plastered across the media for all to see. Why should the people who put her in that position be able to remain unknown.

 

[F1Grid]

‘Tesco John Wick. More like a Tesco Meal Deal.’

I genuinely wouldn’t blame Brianna’s mum for slapping the fucker. This is truly embarrassing.

 

[CoopsLoops]

Y's father now has to forever live with the fact that he bought his kid a hunting knife that was used in a horrific murder. Can't say I'm terribly sympathetic to Y's dad, what the fuck was he thinking?

Yes, him buying his then 14 or 15-year old child that knife is appalling.
I am also dismayed they managed to get the knife through customs, it’s probably unfortunately easy to do.

 

[clare999]

Just catching up after work. I'm so glad justice has been done and now Briannas family can have some more peace.

Justice Yip has done a fantastic job and her decision to delay the sentencing, I feel is very sensible. She's right, she has to now look really carefully at both perpetrators and work out what they need in terms of a sentence but also in terms of support going forwards. They are clearly very very damaged individuals and if they are ever going to be released, they need that rehabilitation and support.

I sort of hope she doesn't name them as they too were/are vulnerable. I don't feel sorry for them but I think if you name them, they don't ever have a chance again. Unless they have a whole life order the possibility must be that they can be rehabilitated and supported when they are finally released. If they are names then this won't happen, I don't think. Unless they are given new identities.

I also think that like someone up thread said, X in particular might love the notoriety or being plastered all over the paper like the people she researched and obsessed over. By naming her she gets that.

I'm really torn about it. Do they deserve another chance or do they not? I'm really not sure.

They don’t deserve to be rehabilitated !! They took someone’s life ! 16 … by law yes children but they know right from wrong ! They deserve to rot in hell for what they’ve done

 

[Elle Woods]

So which one of them is causing commotion in the cells

Neither. Girl X is appearing via video link and Boy Y is in the dock.

It will be another defendant from another case which can be heard from the court room.

 

[Sparklesurprise]

I find Boy Y's account very plausible. I even found him quite genuine on the stand, though I know that goes against the grain here!

I still *think* he's guilty but if I'm honest, I don't know how I'd vote if I was on that jury. Am I sure he's guilty beyond all reasonable doubt? I don't know.

I appreciate this opinion tbh and can see how jurors may feel the same.

For me, I have a relative with autism and selective mutism so I don't see that as an excuse etc, but the fact X had no blood, and Y was covered, and the fact considerable strength was required, I am leaning towards X doing the first few injuries, where the clothes soaked up a lot of blood or she has washed her clothes, and Y finishing the job.

I think the witnesses all seeing them standing around and stalling, I believe they both knew what was coming, and we're clearly psyching themselves up to say the code word to commit the attack. If for example Y was innocent, he'd have definitely known something was afoot. And picks and chooses when he says no. And picks and chooses when he feels fear and certain emotions.

 

[HotesTilaire]

Two torture-obsessed teenagers are found guilty of murdering Brianna Ghey: Boy and girl, both 16, stabbed transgender schoolgirl 28 times with a hunting knife in 'frenzied' attack before tying to blame each other for the killing | Daily Mail Online

The article includes a picture of the knife. Crazy that his parents bought that for him.

Girl X did not, no way, have that concealed unsheathed in her leggings waistband for an hour