Breast feeding

[Notgonnalie]

At that point, she's getting more out of it than her kids are.



I'm sorry, but a lot of that is lactivist bull. Please don't spread ignorant facts, because there's nothing to back it up.

There are scientific studies to back up everything I said. If you don’t like breastfeeding it’s quite simple, don’t look no one is forcing you to.

I’ll link to a webpage which links to many resources of where a lot of my facts can be backed up my science.

Breastfeeding Past Infancy: Fact Sheet - KellyMom.com

Breastfeeding children benefit NUTRITIONALLY Although there has been little research done on children who breastfeed beyond the age of two, the available information indicates that breastfeeding continues to be a valuable source of nutrition and disease protection for as long as breastfeeding...

kellymom.com

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

Hello all only just found this thread.

I just wanted to say there is not enough support or encouragement. No one tells you how hard the first month is gonna be. Or that bleeding nipples, pain, thrush, engourgment pain and all the other crappy stuff that comes with it is normal and will pass. I've heard so many people say my nipples bleed so I had to give up. That's normal!

If my sister and law hadn't just been through it all I wouldn't have known, and if I hadn't had my mum supporting, I would have probably thought I can't do it and and given up.

We need to be more open with women about what breastfeeding actually looks like, we need more support and we need to be able to champion breastfeeding. Because it is better for babies and if we can't say that then it makes new mums feel like what's the point of going through all this pain and stress when it makes no difference what you feed them.

If you genuinely couldn't breastfeed then hearing breast is best shouldn't make you feel bad or guilty. If you didn't breastfeed because you didn't want to, then own your decision and don't try and stop people getting information out their to encourage breastfeeding.

I'm currently a year into breastfeeding my second. I was gonna stop around this time and TBH I want to. But with winter coming and rumours of a broncolitius and flu epidemic, I'm gonna keep going. Because it supports their immune systems. My first never got ill until I stopped breastfeeding and my second has still not been ill even when the rest of the house has been.

 

[Definitelyme]

I'm sorry, but a lot of that is lactivist bull. Please don't spread ignorant facts, because there's nothing to back it up.

Nothing except extensive scientific studies

 

[Tui]

Nothing except extensive scientific studies

I know right??? Surely this stuff is well accepted!! Ive never seen such animosity to breastfeeding women

 

[Definitelyme]

I know right??? Surely this stuff is well accepted!! Ive never seen such animosity to breastfeeding women

I don’t care if people want to not breastfeed, I don’t even really care if they hate breastfeeding (although I don’t understand that). But I just am BOGGLED by people who refuse to accept scientific fact about the benefits of breastfeeding!!

(And actually I don’t even like to refer to it as the benefits of breastfeeding since breastfeeding is the biological norm, it’s actually the drawbacks of not breastfeeding)

 

[Notgonnalie]

Hello all only just found this thread.

I just wanted to say there is not enough support or encouragement. No one tells you how hard the first month is gonna be. Or that bleeding nipples, pain, thrush, engourgment pain and all the other crappy stuff that comes with it is normal and will pass. I've heard so many people say my nipples bleed so I had to give up. That's normal!

If my sister and law hadn't just been through it all I wouldn't have known, and if I hadn't had my mum supporting, I would have probably thought I can't do it and and given up.

We need to be more open with women about what breastfeeding actually looks like, we need more support and we need to be able to champion breastfeeding. Because it is better for babies and if we can't say that then it makes new mums feel like what's the point of going through all this pain and stress when it makes no difference what you feed them.

If you genuinely couldn't breastfeed then hearing breast is best shouldn't make you feel bad or guilty. If you didn't breastfeed because you didn't want to, then own your decision and don't try and stop people getting information out their to encourage breastfeeding.

I'm currently a year into breastfeeding my second. I was gonna stop around this time and TBH I want to. But with winter coming and rumours of a broncolitius and flu epidemic, I'm gonna keep going. Because it supports their immune systems. My first never got ill until I stopped breastfeeding and my second has still not been ill even when the rest of the house has been.

Totally agree with you. There isn’t enough support out there for mums who want to breastfeed. I volunteer as a breastfeeding peer supporting taking calls from women up and down the country and it’s a common theme that they aren’t getting the right support and they often hear when they do ask for help “just give him/her a bottle” “it’s ok you don’t need to breastfeed that’s what formulas for” which is fine if mum wants to choose formula but often she just needs help making breastfeeding work for her because it’s what she wants to do. Breastfeeding can be very sore, demanding and overwhelming the first few weeeks and months but when you get the right support it really does make all the difference!
I’m currently feeding my 2.5 year old and I never imagined I would feed this long but he is reaping the benefits, it’s convenient for us both and I’m ready to stop when he is.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I wouldn’t call kellymom an extensive scientific resource. It’s just the website everyone who loves breastfeeding quotes, and full of papers said website owners have picked out. Hardly robust, and I’m a huge bf fan

 

[Notgonnalie]

I wouldn’t call kellymom an extensive scientific resource. It’s just the website everyone who loves breastfeeding quotes, and full of papers said website owners have picked out. Hardly robust, and I’m a huge bf fan

Kelly mom links to the sources of the scientific research - it’s all in one place instead of me posting 1000s of links to research you can find them on one platform. It’s not research Kelly mom has done.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Yes I know that. Just research they’ve chosen to publish on their pro breastfeeding site so pro breast feeders can “win” BF online debates by quoting scientific research

 

[Brigitjonesbuttcheek]

Totally agree with you. There isn’t enough support out there for mums who want to breastfeed. I volunteer as a breastfeeding peer supporting taking calls from women up and down the country and it’s a common theme that they aren’t getting the right support and they often hear when they do ask for help “just give him/her a bottle” “it’s ok you don’t need to breastfeed that’s what formulas for” which is fine if mum wants to choose formula but often she just needs help making breastfeeding work for her because it’s what she wants to do. Breastfeeding can be very sore, demanding and overwhelming the first few weeeks and months but when you get the right support it really does make all the difference!
I’m currently feeding my 2.5 year old and I never imagined I would feed this long but he is reaping the benefits, it’s convenient for us both and I’m ready to stop when he is.

With both my kids I was given incorrect advice by the midwives as well. They told me my perfectly healthy normal weight babies weren't gaining quick enough so I should either suppliment with formula or pump in-between feeds. Both of which would have ducked my supply and possibly the babies latch.

All I needed to do was put the baby on the breast more. Which I did and it was fine.

It boggles my mind that people can possibly believe that feeding your child the way nature intended, the way they were intended to be fed, is not the best way to feed a baby. How can you honestly believe that processed cows milk is just as good.

Its like saying squash is just as good for you as eating an orange.

 

[Notgonnalie]

Yes I know that. Just research they’ve chosen to publish on their pro breastfeeding site so pro breast feeders can “win” BF online debates by quoting scientific research

It’s not about winning what are you talking about? Do you have scientific evidence that disputes the research? Kellymom don’t benefit from sharing other people’s research, breastfeeding doesn’t get a marketing budget unlike the billion dollar formula industry.

However if you don’t trust kellymom I’d recommend you check pubmed, NICE, Cochrane library, science direct. You might need to be a member to view all their articles though.

 

[Tui]

Yes I know that. Just research they’ve chosen to publish on their pro breastfeeding site so pro breast feeders can “win” BF online debates by quoting scientific research

Yes I know that. Just research they’ve chosen to publish on their pro breastfeeding site so pro breast feeders can “win” BF online debates by quoting scientific research

who said it was about winning? I agree with what’s been said above, breastfeeding and breastmilk are the evolutionary and biological norm for human infants. Formula is by definition a breastmilk substitute. The immunological benefits of breastfeeding cannot be replicated by formula and there are many other benefits to breastfeeding (or rather, drawbacks to not breastfeeding).
Perhaps the royal college of paediatrics is less biased for you…?

Breastfeeding in the UK - position statement

The UK has one of the lowest rates of breastfeeding in Europe. We strongly support national policies, practices and legislation that are conducive to breastfeeding, as well as promotion, advice and support to new mothers. This statement addresses breastfeeding in the UK. Messages and...

www.rcpch.ac.uk

(See also…American Academy of Pediatrics, WHO, UNICEF etc etc etc)

Either way, I find it quite sad that a choice in favour of the human biological norm and defence of the right of a woman and her child to enjoy this biological norm is seen by you as some sort of political point scoring or competition.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

It’s not about winning what are you talking about? Do you have scientific evidence that disputes the research? Kellymom don’t benefit from sharing other people’s research, breastfeeding doesn’t get a marketing budget unlike the billion dollar formula industry.

However if you don’t trust kellymom I’d recommend you check pubmed, NICE, Cochrane library, science direct. You might need to be a member to view all their articles though.

That is EXACTLY my point. Look at every women’s forum since the dawn of time (alright- 20 years ) and on every BF debate like this one you’ll find women linking kelly mom and demanding people a) read the science papers linked and b) find conflicting evidence if they dispute them.

Did YOU find scientific evidence? No, you linked kelly mom
Did YOU Validate kelly moms science papers and research? no, you linked to kellymom.

Do YOU have the ability to disconcert between quality scientific research and baseless crap? I don’t know, but you still linked to Kelly mom.


Over many years of reading BF debates online I e mumsnet I’ve seen plenty of evidence that the benefits of BF at individual level are negligible (they are not at population level). Plenty of papers pointing to sociology economic influencers being more powerful than BF.
Am I going to search through science paper databases I don’t have access to and find them for you? Am I buggery

 

[Notgonnalie]

That is EXACTLY my point. Look at every women’s forum since the dawn of time (alright- 20 years ) and on every BF debate like this one you’ll find women linking kelly mom and demanding people a) read the science papers linked and b) find conflicting evidence if they dispute them.

Did YOU find scientific evidence? No, you linked kelly mom
Did YOU Validate kelly moms science papers and research? no, you linked to kellymom.

Do YOU have the ability to disconcert between quality scientific research and baseless crap? I don’t know, but you still linked to Kelly mom.


Over many years of reading BF debates online I e mumsnet I’ve seen plenty of evidence that the benefits of BF at individual level are negligible (they are not at population level). Plenty of papers pointing to sociology economic influencers being more powerful than BF.
Am I going to search through science paper databases I don’t have access to and find them for you? Am I buggery

I have done extensive training in breastfeeding to qualify in my volunteer role supporting mothers with breastfeeding. Part of that training included researching the science behind it so yes I have researched the science. I find Kelly mom a helpful platform where it holds links to many peer reviewed scientific data and research. I’ve provided you other platforms that will give you access to other scientific data.

I didn’t come here for a debate and wouldn’t debate on anyone’s choice for how they’d feed their baby it’s up to mum it’s not a competition and there isn’t a right way or wrong way. What matters to me is mums are supported whether they choose formula or breast milk.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I agree that support is essential and also acknowledge you weren’t the only snarky poster. However whilst kellymom is accessible and supportive, it isn’t some gotcha to prove your & other posters points. And being a BF counsellor requires a very low level of scientific knowledge/ research
.

 

[Notgonnalie]

I agree that support is essential and also acknowledge you weren’t the only snarky poster. However whilst kellymom is accessible and supportive, it isn’t some gotcha to prove your & other posters points. And being a BF counsellor requires a very low level of scientific knowledge/ research
.

I wasn’t posting it to for it to be a “gotcha moment” , none of my posts here have been to try and make anyone feel bad or like they’re doing something wrong. I was told my claims were bull and I pointed out they’re backed up by science, which they are.

For the average person they don’t care to look up science on the likes of pubmed or sciencedirect, and I believe Kelly mom is useful in that it’s easy to understand and all in one place.

That’s not true it requires a good understanding of scientific knowledge and research specifically related to breastfeeding and takes around 2 years to complete.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I know about the process to be a counsellor. Maybe the level of scientific knowledge you think it needs depends on your starting point. I don’t know anyone who thought it took a good understanding, and I’m good friends with 3 counsellors. It’s only Breast feeding for god sake, you’re not becoming a virologist!

 

[Notgonnalie]

I know about the process to be a counsellor. Maybe the level of scientific knowledge you think it needs depends on your starting point. I don’t know anyone who thought it took a good understanding, and I’m good friends with 3 counsellors. It’s only Breast feeding for god sake, you’re not becoming a virologist!

I hope you’re not as hostile towards your friends.

I never said anything about becoming a virologist did I? I said the science knowledge required was specifically related to breastfeeding and used *good* as in greater than low level as a response to what you said.

I’m really not sure where you’re going with this at this point. If you’re looking an argument you won’t get one from me.

 

[Definitelyme]

Imagine being so discontent in yourself that you feel the need to argue that people who provide links to lists of scientific research are somehow wrong because they haven’t done the research themselves

If breastfeeding has no benefits why is recommended by government health organisations worldwide? Honestly, some people’s desire to be so against breastfeeding that they lose sight of their common sense absolutely astounds me.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Imagine being so discontent in yourself that you feel the need to argue that people who provide links to lists of scientific research are somehow wrong because they haven’t done the research themselves

If breastfeeding has no benefits why is recommended by government health organisations worldwide? Honestly, some people’s desire to be so against breastfeeding that they lose sight of their common sense absolutely astounds me.

I don’t even know where to start with this all this alleged scientific knowledge yet you seem unable to comprehend text. Can you quote where I’ve suggested breastfeeding has no benefits? Or are you just being a drama llama (actually don’t answer that- you’ve answered it yourself with the “discontent” argument)

@Notgonnalie my friends are wonderful, as, (as I previously stated), the support given by breastfeeding counsellors. 2 of them are also scientists and will happily tell you there is no science involved