really struggling to see how this is mansplaining the movie to women in any capacity… @Bleurghgram has basically said they are interested in hearing a countering view of the movie and a rational explaining for why someone disliked it instead of it being dismissed as silly… that isn’t even explaining something, never mind mansplaining? Nothing was explained…? It was a request?
really struggling to see how this is mansplaining the movie to women in any capacity… @Bleurghgram has basically said they are interested in hearing a countering view of the movie and a rational explaining for why someone disliked it instead of it being dismissed as silly… that isn’t even explaining something, never mind mansplaining? Nothing was explained…? It was a request?
There have been plenty of reasonable points given in this thread as to why people did not like the movie. They may not have been as detailed as the person that Bleurghgram quoted. However, Bleurghgram's comment made it sound like if a woman didn't appreciate the movie it was due to internalised misogyny and therefore that the points raised by posters who disliked the movie so far aren't valid.
@Heidi88 I see what you’re saying. I didn’t intend to offend anybody here and I didn’t comment on any of the points raised here specifically. If somebody here has called it a silly little chaotic film, then yes, I would think that person didn’t appreciate it due to internalised misogyny - which is subconscious after all.
The only criticisms I’ve seen are “it was a load of shite” and “it felt rushed” which is valid I guess but not much of a discussion and feels a bit dismissive
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Good parts: the acting is fab (especially Margot and Ryan, both really sell it). Margot is stunning and so sweet, her grief when she realises the real world isn't perfect is touching.The sets and costumes are brilliant, lots of treats for Barbie fans. The first act, setting up Barbie land and the premise is The premise (Barbie discovering that actually she didn't make the real world wonderful for girls with the sub plot of Ken discovering male dominance and quite liking it) is simple and clever. Some funny gags in the first act. Barbie meeting Ruth is a nice resolution.The weird and discontinued Barbies - genius.
Not so good parts: After the first act it gets clunky, the tone and pacing is all over the place. The script is laboured. Making Mattel 'funny' was a mistake, with Will Ferrell playing Will Ferrell as usual. The tween character is a boring trope and it isn't explained why she is so nasty (though I did wonder if her attack on Barbie was a nod to the idea that you can punch as hard as you like as long as you believe you are 'punching up'. America Ferreira's character speech is great - made me tearful - but again feels tonally off. Ken becomes pretty nasty and spiteful towards Barbie and the rest of the Kens sing 'I want to push you around' at the other Barbies. Ken's message is that he's angry that Barbie rejects his love - yes we know a lot of misogyny arises from that but even though Margot's Barbie escapes, the rest of the Barbies still have to live with these jackasses. Or was the message at the end that men could only be happy if they allowed women to dominate? TBH I had got bored by then so subtleties may have passed me by In summary, lots of great ideas and a good opportunity for a feminist message but would have benefited from cleverer writing and leaner editing.
All my opinion of course!
ETA also gutted that Micarah Tewers didn't get a cameo.
the “push you around” song Ken sings by the fire is very famous and has a much bigger context, which is why Greta chose it.
this movie isn’t aimed at just young women. It’s aimed at the slightly older women who was a teen or in her 20s in the 90s - America Ferreras age. Because generations of women have been plying with barbies at this point.
The original song was written by Rob Thomas of Matchbox 20, and it was a very popular band at that time, but as they got more successful, the more they were made fun of. Kinda like nickel back, but in the 90s.
Rob Thomas wrote the song after a breakup, and the 90s was a time of a lot of male angst in music, with a lot of misogynistic undertones. Think nirvana’s “Polly” and “rape me”. Matchbox 20 as a band started to become associated with angsty, indie douchebags. This was cemented in pop culture when a matchbox 20 poster was shown in the movie “bring it on” with Kirsten Dunst which was a quasi-feminist movie for the time. Her head boyfriend had the poster in his room.
this song specifically, was controversial precisely because of those lines. There were calls to get it banned from radio and that it confined domestic violence.
so basically Greta is using a popular song to perfectly demonstrate where Ken is at that point in the movie - how the patriarchy he has bought into has made him entitled, resentful and angsty just because barbie doesn’t like him back. And the real life parallels are incredibly nuanced and clever. It’s criticising the song and the mindset behind it, whilst simultaneously poking fun at it.
by showing Ken as ridiculous, the movie strips his viewpoint of any real legitimacy. He’s behaving like a brat because barbie doesn’t like him back, and when we see misogyny highlighted like that with the real life parallels - it holds it under a spotlight and dissects it and (hopefully) makes us realise how stupid it is.
Greta isn’t trying to portray the Ken’s as assholes who are spiteful and mean - she’s highlighting how patriarchal systems make them that way. And likewise, under the Barbieland matriarchy he was reduced to being “just Ken” and had no real life behind how he related to barbies - parallel to how women are under a patriarchy. Ken isn’t supposed to be a head, which is what the last scene with barbie was about when she was telling him he needed to find his identity outside of getting approval from barbie.
I did love the nod to The Lego Movie. Went with my teen boys because they'd been so inspired to watch it and they pointed this out to me.
How easy it was for Ken to go back to Barbieland and establish a patrairchy!
Loved Ariana Greenblatt telling Barbie how she has made it hard for "normal" women, but the only acceptance at the end was because her mum liked her. Personally I think Margot Robbie apparently having plastic surgery to look more like Barbie doesn't help with this idea that women should look a certain way to be attractive. Why wasn't Weird Barbie given a Ken?
Personally I think Margot Robbie apparently having plastic surgery to look more like Barbie doesn't help with this idea that women should look a certain way to be attractive.
I did love the nod to The Lego Movie. Went with my teen boys because they'd been so inspired to watch it and they pointed this out to me.
How easy it was for Ken to go back to Barbieland and establish a patrairchy!
Loved Ariana Greenblatt telling Barbie how she has made it hard for "normal" women, but the only acceptance at the end was because her mum liked her. Personally I think Margot Robbie apparently having plastic surgery to look more like Barbie doesn't help with this idea that women should look a certain way to be attractive. Why wasn't Weird Barbie given a Ken?
I missed the nod to the Lego movie?! Where was it?
I kinda felt that Sasha’s point in the movie was to vocalise a lot of the valid criticism of Barbie as a concept, and demonstrate how the aspirational qualities of the doll/concept have been weaponised against women. Instead of being allowed to be an inspiration, she’s been turned into yet another unrealistic benchmark for women to inevitably fail to meet.
I think she was also showing that very common disconnect between mother/daughters and I guess to pay tribute to that relationship in general?
I think they showed Sasha joining in, in singing with her mum in the car and gradually wearing more pink - to show how she was embracing the better aspects of barbie and becoming more attuned and less hostile to her mum.
did Margot Robbie have surgery? That sounds like a dodgy daily Mail headline to me I think she’s likely had a bit of a touch up, but that’s Hollywood for you. She doesn’t look like someone who has had much done to me.
I think weird barbie was supposed to be a bit of an outcast along with the other discontinued Kens and barbies!
Did Margot Robbie have surgery? That sounds like a dodgy daily Mail headline to me I think she’s likely had a bit of a touch up, but that’s Hollywood for you. She doesn’t look like someone who has had much done to me.
I agree but to be fair they do sell all kinds of Barbies now such as wheelchair Barbie, amputee Barbie, curvy Barbie, Vitiligo Barbie, the list goes on. So they’re kinda just replicating the dolls
Finally saw this, didn't quite live up to the hype for me.
Enjoyed some of it but it also felt a bit long and stretched out. Very obviously 'inspired' by the lego movie concept. That said there are some very clever ideas and some very funny moments. But some of the messaging was very literal, very explained (almost mansplained, but maybe that was deliberate?!). But there are also some comments and moments that make you think and are spot on.
Visually the production design was outstanding, deserves awards for that.
Felt a bit ironic that a female empowerment story was pretty much stolen by a man. Ryan Gosling owns every scene he is in.
The premise (Barbie discovering that actually she didn't make the real world wonderful for girls with the sub plot of Ken discovering male dominance and quite liking it) is simple and clever. Some funny gags in the first act. Barbie meeting Ruth is a nice resolution.The weird and discontinued Barbies - genius.
In summary, lots of great ideas and a good opportunity for a feminist message but would have benefited from cleverer writing and leaner editing.
I think she’s likely had a bit of a touch up, but that’s Hollywood for you. She doesn’t look like someone who has had much done to me.
