Anti Conspiracy Theories #6 wakey, wakey!

[daydreamer95]

It is an interesting article but I think it misses one very obvious phenomenon; the use of conspiracy theories to influence political or social agendas. I'm thinking of things like QAnon. I don't believe that the originators of many of the CTs disseminated through these channels believe them for a second. They are simply a tool aimed at a certain section of the population that are disposed to believing them. I'm not sure that these people believe CTs because they are 'over-confident' so much as a range of psychological needs.

You mentioned use of conspiracy theories to influence political or social agendas this is something I saw has a section

There are grifters who use conspiracies to make money they don’t believe most of what they say but then there’s more insidious forms even cults use them as a form of control

If I see anything else will post in CT thread

https://home-affairs.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2021-04/ran_conspiracy_theories_and_right-wing_2021_en.pdf

 

[Ensay]

That’s a very interesting article and I agree with a lot of the thoughts put forward on this thread tbh.

I think the overconfident CTist described in the article describes perfectly the ones who are the most obnoxious and vocal, and the ones who tend to be successful at shoving their views onto others. However as others have pointed out, it’s reductive to say that all CTists are like this, it’s often easy to paint this caricature of this type of CTist and then apply it to all of them, but that isn’t the case. I think there’s a huge silent majority out there who are actually for the most part extremely normal people, however they all lack one thing which makes them vulnerable to CTs.

For me this thing that they lack is an understanding of logical reasoning. When you listen to some of the arguments they put out, they’re often based on premises which aren’t true or are completely circular. You can be as intelligent and as educated as you like, but if you do not possess the tools required to be able to differentiate between an argument which is logical and one which is not, then how on earth are you supposed to critically evaluate all of the information we’re constantly bombarded with on social media in order to figure out what’s true and what isn’t? I think you become extremely vulnerable to falling for CTs when you can’t do this.
This blog deconstructs some of the common arguments put forward by CTists about the vaccine and shows some of the fundamental logical flaws in their thinking. I’ve also linked this scientific article which goes deeper into it but it’s a bit long haha.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7509825/

https://youcanknowthings.com/2022/02/05/10-logical-fallacies-used-in-vaccine-arguments/?fbclid=IwAR0TaEOTIFLJZ6XNhDR62YlHgjqpiK6cATHZ69qSICWQ6t_IvUO8A5KVrqQ&amp

I’m not saying that the solution to help someone who has gone down the CT rabbit hole is to just sit them down and force them to read a book about logic though. I’m also not saying that a fundamental lack of understanding of logic alone is the only reason people become CTists. Obviously there are so many other factors, like if you don’t really understand how vaccines work or when you’re confronted by an argument which despite being logically sound, is false because it uses statistical analysis from data which has been misinterpreted, manipulated or just downright fabricated, you’re still vulnerable to falling for CTs. You need to have a certain level of trust in professionals as well. However, I do think a decent understanding of how to critically evaluate arguments and figure out if they’re true or not is something which can really help.
In fact, I really recommend looking into logic in general to everyone, it’s not something which comes naturally to me and once I started to learn about it, it really helped with my anxiety. Being able to see which of my worries were rational and which were irrational completely changed my perspective of the world and genuinely helps me to reduce anxiety.
But I digress, as others have said, there are a multitude of different factors and life experiences which lead to someone becoming a CTist.

Anyway, I hope my morning thoughts makes sense and sorry for the ramble and any spelling/grammar errors lmao. Time to get the duck out of bed and take my ADHD meds

They do make sense! To me at least.

I agree about a lack of logical reasoning, because they often make links that are tenuous at best, but act like their view is irrefutable. As we keep seeing time and time again, covid vaccines are seen by many conspiracy theorists as being the be-all-and-end-all for many current ailments and deaths.

I'm not saying the vaccines are without risk (no medication is - after all, look at the big long list of side effects on leaflets that accompany all medication) but I don't believe they are responsible to the extent many CTists think they are.

I'm unfortunate enough to have lost many family friends to cancer - as pretty much everyone else has done. Four close family members spring to mind - my dad, my aunt and two uncles. All of them were diagnosed before covid vaccines, in fact before covid itself (the latest diagnosis of those listed was June 2019). They were a range of ages - youngest late 50s, most in their 60s and one in their early 70s.

Due to the timing of their diagnoses, I can categorically rule out covid vaccines as the cause. I understand that if someone is diagnosed with cancer today then a vaccine could be a cause, but given how many people were diagnosed pre the vaccine, it's equally as possible that the vaccine had no impact on their illness.

While that viewpoint is perfectly logical, I find if I raise it with a CTist who's convinced covid vaccines are responsible, they will just call me names (e.g. a sheep), tell me I've got my head buried in the sand and that "some of us can see the truth" or just act like I'm plain stupid. There's rarely ever a reasonable reply that acknowledges potential shortcomings in their theory. And that could point back to the overconfidence aspect already raised.

 

[Deeznutslol]

They do make sense! To me at least.

I agree about a lack of logical reasoning, because they often make links that are tenuous at best, but act like their view is irrefutable. As we keep seeing time and time again, covid vaccines are seen by many conspiracy theorists as being the be-all-and-end-all for many current ailments and deaths.

I'm not saying the vaccines are without risk (no medication is - after all, look at the big long list of side effects on leaflets that accompany all medication) but I don't believe they are responsible to the extent many CTists think they are.

I'm unfortunate enough to have lost many family friends to cancer - as pretty much everyone else has done. Four close family members spring to mind - my dad, my aunt and two uncles. All of them were diagnosed before covid vaccines, in fact before covid itself (the latest diagnosis of those listed was June 2019). They were a range of ages - youngest late 50s, most in their 60s and one in their early 70s.

Due to the timing of their diagnoses, I can categorically rule out covid vaccines as the cause. I understand that if someone is diagnosed with cancer today then a vaccine could be a cause, but given how many people were diagnosed pre the vaccine, it's equally as possible that the vaccine had no impact on their illness.

While that viewpoint is perfectly logical, I find if I raise it with a CTist who's convinced covid vaccines are responsible, they will just call me names (e.g. a sheep), tell me I've got my head buried in the sand and that "some of us can see the truth" or just act like I'm plain stupid. There's rarely ever a reasonable reply that acknowledges potential shortcomings in their theory. And that could point back to the overconfidence aspect already raised.

I think the fundamental issue is that most of them aren’t really interested in evidence based arguments or logical reasoning. They operate on gut instincts and suspicious feelings rather than factual evidence like, you know, scientific data.
But forget that, if you want to know whether or not the vaccine is causing mass deaths, leave the house once in a while and look around and see how many people have dropped dead since the vaccine was introduced.

The cancer claims are really absurd to be honest. You can’t just point at random individuals who are suffering from cancer and blame the vaccine for it. How can you be so sure? Why are you convinced it’s the vaccine and not just the result of the natural accumulation of mutations over the course of this persons lifetime? There hasn’t been a sudden dramatic increase in cancer rates, take a look at cancer rates all over the world but particularly in western countries, they’ve been steadily increasing since the 90s.

Honestly, I just laugh it when they call me uneducated, unaware or a stupid person with my head in the sand tbh. I’ve actually read extensively into their theories, I’ve looked at the ‘evidence’ they put forward. I’m not unaware, I just don’t accept their arguments, because they go completely against many things which I know to be unequivocally true.
Personally I think that trying to insist that you know more than experienced medical professionals who have spent years of their life studying in a respected academic institution because the @covidtruth_movement insta account told you otherwise, is an stunning display of overconfidence, arrogance and an extreme lack of self awareness.
But please, if calling me an idiotic NPC who can’t think for myself makes you feel better, then by all means feel free to continue.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

That’s a very interesting article and I agree with a lot of the thoughts put forward on this thread tbh.

I think the overconfident CTist described in the article describes perfectly the ones who are the most obnoxious and vocal, and the ones who tend to be successful at shoving their views onto others. However as others have pointed out, it’s reductive to say that all CTists are like this, it’s often easy to paint this caricature of this type of CTist and then apply it to all of them, but that isn’t the case. I think there’s a huge silent majority out there who are actually for the most part extremely normal people, however they all lack one thing which makes them vulnerable to CTs.

For me this thing that they lack is an understanding of logical reasoning. When you listen to some of the arguments they put out, they’re often based on premises which aren’t true or are completely circular. You can be as intelligent and as educated as you like, but if you do not possess the tools required to be able to differentiate between an argument which is logical and one which is not, then how on earth are you supposed to critically evaluate all of the information we’re constantly bombarded with on social media in order to figure out what’s true and what isn’t? I think you become extremely vulnerable to falling for CTs when you can’t do this.
This blog deconstructs some of the common arguments put forward by CTists about the vaccine and shows some of the fundamental logical flaws in their thinking. I’ve also linked this scientific article which goes deeper into it but it’s a bit long haha.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7509825/

https://youcanknowthings.com/2022/02/05/10-logical-fallacies-used-in-vaccine-arguments/?fbclid=IwAR0TaEOTIFLJZ6XNhDR62YlHgjqpiK6cATHZ69qSICWQ6t_IvUO8A5KVrqQ&amp

I’m not saying that the solution to help someone who has gone down the CT rabbit hole is to just sit them down and force them to read a book about logic though. I’m also not saying that a fundamental lack of understanding of logic alone is the only reason people become CTists. Obviously there are so many other factors, like if you don’t really understand how vaccines work or when you’re confronted by an argument which despite being logically sound, is false because it uses statistical analysis from data which has been misinterpreted, manipulated or just downright fabricated, you’re still vulnerable to falling for CTs. You need to have a certain level of trust in professionals as well. However, I do think a decent understanding of how to critically evaluate arguments and figure out if they’re true or not is something which can really help.
In fact, I really recommend looking into logic in general to everyone, it’s not something which comes naturally to me and once I started to learn about it, it really helped with my anxiety. Being able to see which of my worries were rational and which were irrational completely changed my perspective of the world and genuinely helps me to reduce anxiety.
But I digress, as others have said, there are a multitude of different factors and life experiences which lead to someone becoming a CTist.

Anyway, I hope my morning thoughts makes sense and sorry for the ramble and any spelling/grammar errors lmao. Time to get the duck out of bed and take my ADHD meds

These two links are really good, Deeznuts. I recognise every single one of those 10 'logical fallacies' used in vaccine arguments, in the interactions I've been part of/observed on twitter and elsewhere, including on here. Facinating to see them analysed.

The longer scientific commentary is also interesting. The authors maintain an optimistic stance which welcomes all viewpoints into the scientific discussion, including those opposed to vaccines, though this doesn't mean those arguments are correct, "only that they indicate a desire on the part of individuals to research and reach independent conclusions about important health-related topics." I thought this was a perceptive comment as I do think a lot of vaccine-hesitant people are trying to wade through and interpret the array of information/misinformation available on media and social media.
This concluding remark is powerful: "It is fear, misinformation, and mistrust that are driving the anti-vax movement and scientists, the healthcare profession, and public health must provide open discourse and fair, balanced, accurate information that can assure patients rather than reinforce their despair."

 

[Ensay]

Another thing I've noticed with some who are anti vaccine is that there's an element of wanting to be proven 'right' and a desire to seek revenge.

I've always said that if someone doesn't want a vaccine that's entirely their choice and they shouldn't be shamed or criticised for that choice. However, some people did shame and criticise them for that choice when they shouldn't have done.

However, rather than moving on, some of them seem to be hell bent on proving that we shouldn't have taken vaccines, which has led to them accusing the vaccine of being responsible for all manner of things. There's little to no evidence to a lot of their claims, but they want to be able to say: "See! I was right not to take the vaccine and you were wrong for having it!" rather than "I stand by my decision not to take it, but if you wanted to, then fair enough".

The revenge aspect is a little more sinister. I've seen a few people online (mostly on Twitter) basically gloating about what they see as vaccine side effects and making out like people deserve said side effects for being stupid enough to take it. Things like: "Well, they should have realised it was an unsafe and experimental vaccine, so they deserve what they get - no sympathy from me".

And I just think... what would make someone so callous? It's twisted.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

To add to my previous post, the longer article Deeznutslol posted makes an interesting point about how the scientific community could use narrative storytelling more to inform people about vaccine efficacy/safety, rather than just bare facts. It talks about how anti-vaxxers often use anecdotal stories in their arguments (think of the latest logical fallacy ones on sm linking relatives' cancer diagnoses to the covid vaccines). Because people are generally interested in other people's stories, this gains massive traction online, whereas in real life it wouldn't because we'd simply look around at our friendship/relatives/colleagues/neighbours circles and see for ourselves overall there is no massive proliferation of vaccine-causing cancers! It would be interesting if, as the article suggests, the science/medical community could tap into this anecdotes tactic much more, to present info in a more humanly tangible/relatable way, as a means of getting across the majority positive or neutral aspects of the vaccine.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Honestly, sometimes it seems like they actually want there to be a huge number of people dying from the vaccine just so they can be vindicated. Of course that hasn’t happened, but it’s scary how they’d rather be right and loads of people die than wrong and nothing happen… I feel like as time has gone on they’re just making up more and more diseases and injuries that this vaccine is supposedly causing and their theories are becoming more bizarre.

But anyway, in other news I just checked the old bank account and I can see that the monthly 15 grand we get from being paid BigPharma internet trolls has landed in the old bank account what you guys gonna spend yours on? I’m thinking a PS5, a BBL and maybe a holiday to Dubai?

 

[Ensay]

Honestly, sometimes it seems like they actually want there to be a huge number of people dying from the vaccine just so they can be vindicated. Of course that hasn’t happened, but it’s scary how they’d rather be right and loads of people die than wrong and nothing happen… I feel like as time has gone on they’re just making up more and more diseases and injuries that this vaccine is supposedly causing and their theories are becoming more bizarre.

But anyway, in other news I just checked the old bank account and I can see that the monthly 15 grand we get from being paid BigPharma internet trolls has landed in the old bank account what you guys gonna spend yours on? I’m thinking a PS5, a BBL and maybe a holiday to Dubai?

Mine will be spent on a holiday somewhere warm, but it has to be somewhere with good wifi, so I can carry on my job!

 

[MemoryLane]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned on here because I’ve literally just had a quick read through but the Nicola Bulley case was turned in to a media frenzy by conspiracy theorists concerning her disappearance. There’s a particular account on Twitter which is bordering on lunacy and making me think that the poster is actually unwell.

Regarding vaccines I had both of mine but I have to admit I went through a phase where I was curious and read a bit about them. I didn’t go down the rabbit hole as such but a few people local to me died from heart related illnesses. One very healthy 58 year old dropped dead in his local pub. A couple of others had heart issues and were hospitalised but they had suffered a serious bout of Covid. I can see why people get caught up in some of it, it’s especially common in people who lose loved ones as you obviously don’t want to accept they are no longer here. I’ve a friend who is deep in the hole, he regularly photographs the sky (full of Chem trails) and posts it to his SM. I just completely avoid those subjects and stay friendly on other topics.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Mine will be spent on a holiday somewhere warm, but it has to be somewhere with good wifi, so I can carry on my job!

Enjoy mate, honestly, shout out to the CTists for keeping us in the job and THANKYOU BIGPHARMA

Not sure if it’s been mentioned on here because I’ve literally just had a quick read through but the Nicola Bulley case was turned in to a media frenzy by conspiracy theorists concerning her disappearance. There’s a particular account on Twitter which is bordering on lunacy and making me think that the poster is actually unwell.

Regarding vaccines I had both of mine but I have to admit I went through a phase where I was curious and read a bit about them. I didn’t go down the rabbit hole as such but a few people local to me died from heart related illnesses. One very healthy 58 year old dropped dead in his local pub. A couple of others had heart issues and were hospitalised but they had suffered a serious bout of Covid. I can see why people get caught up in some of it, it’s especially common in people who lose loved ones as you obviously don’t want to accept they are no longer here. I’ve a friend who is deep in the hole, he regularly photographs the sky (full of Chem trails) and posts it to his SM. I just completely avoid those subjects and stay friendly on other topics.

The NB theorists are genuinely vicious, like I really bleeping hope that the family are able to sue some of the ones on twitter because what they’re doing is just straight up defamation at this point.

Yeah, I think with unexpected deaths it’s just human nature to search for a cause and with all of the misinformation surrounding the vaccine I can see why people would just attribute them to the vaccine, especially if you’re in shock/grieving.
Sometimes people do just die young tho. I had a teacher who was extremely healthy, went running every day, guy literally dropped dead aged 53 of a massive stroke (pre pandemic). No indication it was coming whatsoever. Same for my dad, a few years ago just before covid he had a massive heart attack in his early 50s (although in his case it’ll probably be due to years of alcohol and drug abuse) and has had several other smaller ones since, think his next one will be his 4th.
As I say, I can understand wanting to blame something if you suddenly lost a loved one, but what I can’t get my head around is all of the CTists who are trying to make out like this tit never happened before the vaccine even existed?

 

[LaBlonde]

Not sure if it’s been mentioned on here because I’ve literally just had a quick read through but the Nicola Bulley case was turned in to a media frenzy by conspiracy theorists concerning her disappearance. There’s a particular account on Twitter which is bordering on lunacy and making me think that the poster is actually unwell.

true crime ct are getting more and more worrying tbh. there was quite a weird encounter on the crime thread here about nicola b and the stuff about the recent idaho murders has been equally awful.

i like a crime discussion and everything, but i think the amount of podcasts and tiktoks and youtube channels etc just encourage people to think about real life crimes as if they’re tv shows where there needs to be constant twists and turns. there’s almost disappointment when it’s solved (like with poor nicola when everyone wants there to be more). they lose all sense of decency with peoples’ families and seem to forget that they’re talking about real people who something awful has happened to.

some kind of law needs to be passed about it tbh because it’s only a matter of time before something happens to one of these online detectives and their refusal to accept boundaries/decency.

 

[caroleffinbaskin]

It’s like the Elisa Lam case. They really were ghouls and they hounded one man to the brink of suicide.

 

[shadowcat5]

I've mentioned this before but I think a lot of the issue nowadays with online detectives is that sleuthing was genuinely really helpful in the gabby petito case. Now everyone wants to be the guy that solved the crime

 

[LaBlonde]

I've mentioned this before but I think a lot of the issue nowadays with online detectives is that sleuthing was genuinely really helpful in the gabby petito case. Now everyone wants to be the guy that solved the crime

i think this is exactly it. but then, like you say, everyone wants to be the one to “win the game” and be the one to solve it - as if it is an online mystery game and not a real thing.

i remember when the young actress from glee drowned and her “fans” were messaging local search and rescue teams hundreds of messages implying something more had happened and giving directions to a shack type building they’d found on google maps etc. likewise with nicola bulley. everyone wants to be the person who can say “i noticed that! i knew something was up!” while ignoring all sense of boundaries, logic and basic decency.

 

[Moth]

It's the inner part of a bicycle tyre valve!

 

[Deeznutslol]

It's the inner part of a bicycle tyre valve!

That page is hilarious man they’re injecting themselves with urine???

This one made me laugh, I know a girl who wasn’t vaccinated as a child and she actually resents her mum so much for it because now she’s educated on vaccines, she’s like wow imagine putting your child at risk like that …

 

[caroleffinbaskin]

Haha, I especially like the hashtag “keeper” being applied to her child - what’s the alternative

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

The CTs surrounding the government's emergency test alert to all smartphones on 23 April are hilarious. Just set your phone to reject emergency alerts and you won't be bothered by it or any future such alerts. Took me 45 seconds.
Also, I wonder why someone so deep into CTs that they seriously think the goverment is trying to track/monitor/video their every move, influence every aspect of their life, why the heck would they even own a smartphone? And why use that very 'instrument of the devil' to scroll through social media spreading CTs!

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Thanks for reminding me, I had forgotten to switch it on!

Edit - nope, never mind - it seems the oldie phones won't be getting the alerts, if the wiki page is correct.

Mind control denied

 

[MemoryLane]

The CTs surrounding the government's emergency test alert to all smartphones on 23 April are hilarious. Just set your phone to reject emergency alerts and you won't be bothered by it or any future such alerts. Took me 45 seconds.
Also, I wonder why someone so deep into CTs that they seriously think the goverment is trying to track/monitor/video their every move, influence every aspect of their life, why the heck would they even own a smartphone? And why use that very 'instrument of the devil' to scroll through social media spreading CTs!

Exactly what i think!