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sirbenfro

Active member
I have a question. How many of us are fans of APs music, either now or in the past?

I still like the Dresden Dolls Albums, Who Killed Amanda Palmer and Theater is evil. I not really a fan of anything post There will be no intermission. I fins her later songs a bit meandering, like she needed someone to help edit them. She has to any songs which are just her saying sad sounding things in a whispers voice for several minutes.

The song that pushed me over the edge was Voicemail for Jill. She thinks it is feminist, I find it offensively stupid.

The thing that made me dislike her as a person, was following her on social media and seeing every single thought she had broadcast to the world. If I hadn't done that, I would probably still like her.
Are you me? I was a die hard fan of DD as a teenager back in the noughties, went to all their UK gigs etc and was so excited every time she released new music. I still love maybe 80% of the DD discography, and really liked WKAP and TIE. Personally I started disliking her work when she did the album with Edward Ka-Spel and the joint album with her father, both felt completely alienating and just not good. The album with her dad was especially vanity-project feeling, and I ended up with the impression she was trying to impress him somehow by including him on an album despite the fact he hadn't had any success on his own and perhaps that's because his music just sort of sucked.

There Will be no intermission was pretty poor in my opinion, the last song of hers to wow me was Machete and she released that in 2016. Drowning in the sound was okay, but she seems to think The Ride is her magnum opus and I was so bored by that song, especially as it was like ten minutes long or something stupid.

I went from a $10 per thing patron for years to dropping down to $5, then $3, and now I'm on $1 basically just to farm any gossip worthy content that she's only showing to her patrons. If she can release new music that is on the level of her earlier work I'll happily listen to it, because despite her narcissism and general irritatingness, I do think she is a talented songwriter when she wanted to be. The dolls are apparently working on a new record so it'll be interesting to see if that's any good, but I'm never going to be a fan like I used to be honestly.

Also as an aside, I was deep enough in the fandom for a good while to meet some of her inner circle, and Alex (her UK merch guy) is the most insufferable selfish twit I've ever had the misfortune of knowing. A fair few other close orbiters of hers are equally terrible people, although Jason Webley (who she made the Evelyn Evelyn record with) is a darling and I have no idea how he puts up with her.
 
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Vanelope

VIP Member
See I like quite a lot of her music - but the patron Kickstarter thing annoys me because she is well funded, even before marrying very well off Neil - and she has always couch surfed and crowdfunded stuff from her fans even though she gets thousands of dollars a month from patreon. I think she is still pretending she is a starving artist trope when she is not that at all anymore.
 
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Limey

VIP Member
OooooOooft! The thread I needed!

Things that piss me off about Amanda Palmer:

- her eyebrows
- the way she sings like a cross between veruca salt and miss hannigan from 1980s Annie
- that one time she tried to "hire" backing musicians for her tour, but for free / beer money. Proper classical musicians like, not your mate with a set of bongos
- after getting over a mil to fund the album + tour on kickstarter, that is
- her eyebrows
- about 5 years ago she posted a pic of kids in punk clothes at Camden Market all sat in a circle on their phones and mocked them for not being real punks (sorry no receipts and can't find the facebook post... Will dig about a bit more). A bit fucking rich Amanda
- that whole "I'm more INTENSE than You" vibe
- her eyebrows
The hiring musicians for free grift was what woke me up to what a ballbag she is.

Also, smugging all over that Bowie Prom a few years back with her FUCKING UKULELE.

And her eyebrows.
 
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griftalo

VIP Member
For better or worse I'm one of her patreons (at this point I just stick around in the lowest tier for the drama), this is her response about the Surface Pressure controversy and everything else that spilled out from it

I need your input. It's....one of those moments. (*Insert Every Single Circus Emoji*)

**I am, as stated above, reading all comments until this line is deleted**.

While I was working through some stuff in my personal life that had absolutely nothing to do with my art, my career, the internet, or anything public-facing, a classic kerfuffle (as we call it around here) blew my way.

Last week, a discussion about Amanda Palmer blew up on Tiktok: first because people didn't like my rendition of "Surface Pressure", then because the cover itself was deemed an appropriation, and within a few days, the conversation had turned to why I was just generally a terrible person (and a racist, and a transphobe, and an ableist, and an antisemite, and a person who doesn't pay her staff, and the list goes on and on, and is a very familiar list at this point).

One thing I truly love about the low-walled garden of the patreon is this: in these odd moments, I can always come here directly, to you, to talk more quietly, away from the loud arena of social media.

And I also realized something over this past week: I've become much more adept than I used to be at handling the collision of personal/family problems and public-facing/internet problems.

If you read "The Art of Asking", you may remember that around 2012 was one of the hardest stretched of my life and career: it was Kickstarter/Crowdfunding kerfuffle year...but it was also Anthony's cancer and chemo. I'll never be able to untangle those two things, the same way I'll never be able to untangle Anthony's death - and the grief I was dealing with - from Ash's birth. They'll always live together as a pair of beautiful, morbid, bittersweet twins.

In 2012, I wound up fighting two fronts at the same time, the very public, and the very personal.

I remember days when I was sitting with Anthony - my very best friend - in the hospital, watching the chemo drip into his body, and meanwhile my phone was buzzing with the alarm of another 1,000 people on twitter telling me that i was a piece of shit who should just kill myself.

I would walk with Anthony from the hospital parking lot to the house and have to step away because my manager was calling, because someone had hacked into my facebook and was posting violent porn.

I would be sitting with Anthony during his bone marrow transplant, in a sterile room, and I would have to be holding, at the same time, the image of a tweet with a thousand likes about how I was a transphobic anti-semite who should be cancelled.

Things happen at the same time, sometimes. Maybe: all the time?

Anyone dealing with a kerfuffle on the internet, or an abortion off the internet, or a cancelation from a friend or family member, or the dirty secret of a partner who has an addiction and is hitting rock bottom in the basement while you try to explain to the family why they haven't shown up for dinner....basically anybody who's ever dealt with LIFE knows that you are never afforded the luxury of having spacious time to grieve, endless time to deal, scads time to stop everything you're doing and tend to a crisis. You juggle. You try. You attempt to keep pace with the world while still keeping pace with yourself.

And good lord, I know how "internet -> real life" bleed works, I've been dealing with it since 2007. Sometimes a pile-on (or kerfuffle, or whatever you wanna call it) will happen on the internet, but you can ignore it. And sometimes, you know it's more serious when you walk into a party, or a cafe, or start getting sympathetic text messages from your friends "because I am seeing what is happening online". That is happening right now, in my life.

I've now been through a dozen of these moments, perhaps more, in the span of my career. I always learn something, I always come out a little more battered but a little more insightful, and I always take a step back and try to figure out myself, my community, the world, my actions, my artwork and my voice.

I've been making art and being a public figure on the internet for SO LONG and been through SO MANY SHITSTORMS that I really am able to be somewhat dispassionate at this point, and a little bit clinical. Not that these things aren't important. But they don't feel like The End of the World anymore. Ten years ago, they did.

I find myself able to look at things like a professor: What happened? Why? More importantly: Why Now? What are people going through that this is the moment they need to say these things to me, and to each other? Especially if these are things being dredged up from the past that have already been addressed: What do I represent to people? How much of it is "me" (do I still have things to learn, to say, to apologize for, to be accountable for?) and how much of it is "them" (can these people not google the blogs I already wrote about this shit?)

I was having such a hard personal week that I simply walked away from TikTok. I couldn't read the abuse, it was too much to look at. It's pretty horrendous stuff to see about yourself.

But also: I cannot walk away. I always want to be real, accountable. Open. Learning.

I've done some dumb things in my career, for sure, and I've spoken and written at length about those things....and still, the level of abuse that's currently getting leveled at me is pretty seismic.

And YET....also.....I've built up a pretty thick skin over the years. I worry about how thick, sometimes. I don't want to become bitter, or hard.

It's only in moments like this that I get to test the new hardness and thickness, to see what penetrates and gets to my heart and what just bounces off as a broken arrow.

I don't ever want to get so hard that I cannot be bent, that I cannot learn, and join with others in an actual conversation. I never want to live in a fucking echo chamber. That feels like death.

But even the scale of things doesn't matter to me as much as it used to. And I don't know whether that's good or bad, sometimes.

As of a few days ago, my little 15-second "Surface Pressure" clip has now been viewed over 3 million times on TikTok.....but the more than 30,000 comments (THIRTY. THOUSAND.) on that post and my subsequent posts are along the lines of: "hey bestie whats ur favorite slur" and "U R a racist" and so forth. Endlessly. It's....a lot.

It's not a dialogue about whether the "art" is good or bad anymore; it is not even a dialogue.

It's all stemming from the many moments in my past - all of which have been addressed and blogged about at one point or another, SOMEWHERE on the internet - that keep resurfacing without context.

Most centrally (and probably missing from these many little internet spaces) is the post I wrote over a year ago about the lyrics in "Guitar hero" and "Fuck tha Police" by NWA (a song I covered on ukulele many years ago)...and about why I have, in the case of "Guitar Hero" changed those lyrics, and, in the case of "Fuck Tha Police", why I would never cover a song like that again: https://blog.amandapalmer.net/racism-words-art-time-progress/.

I could go on and on, and clarify the other 10 things that keep surfacing, but now...I step back, and I wonder. I big-picture wonder. And I wonder what you all might bring to the table, to this discussion.

I mean: if you know me, I've been here so, so, so many times.

I've always weathered this storm. I will easily weather this one.

I wanted to address one issue very directly, and ask about it, after seeing this on the patron FB page..a place I rarely hang, and a place I hope we can sort of import gradually over to the discord when the time is finally ripe (I know I keep promising, but then life keeps biting me in the ass.....but soon).

View attachment 1164041



First of all, I want you to know that I'm really listening here.

HERE, for the time being. I cannot go, at the moment, to TikTok and listen. It is too harsh, and too loud to hear anything.

It honestly never occurred to me that covering "Surface Pressure", or any other song from "Encanto", would be considered in poor taste, or appropriation. The patron who requested it, Kya Farquhar, is half filipino. We never discussed this aspect of the cover when it was requested; and I didn't see a hundred patrons (or even one?) on the webcast that day saying "NO!!! AMANDA!!! NOOOOOO! That's a BAD IDEA!"

But no matter: this is still my responsibility. And just because I, or Kya (or any of the patrons on that webcast when it was requested) didn't "catch" this or necessarily think that the song was or wasn't appropriation, well....that doesn't mean that it isn't. Like many things, it's in the eye - or ear - of the receiver. So it's really more about how the song is affecting people. It's about that. It's not about "what I meant". So I would like to come to YOU. And ask. I ask YOU, my patrons, especially my patrons of color, and super-especially if you're Latinx, maybe even from Colombia: and ask.

Does it feel wrong? Does it not sit well? Please talk to me. Clearly some voices are already speaking. I want to know why, and I want to listen.

And as for me "not addressing" the criticism: let me reassure you about that. I stopped looking at TikTok the minute the comments became 99% abusive and I just couldn't handle the fire. That is, in my humble opinion, always the wisest option for one's mental health when something like this is happening. But it also means I stepped out of the civil side of the conversation as well. I want to have it, and I am going to have it, but not while the tenor over there is so hot that I cannot hear other speak, or be heard. Trying to have nuanced conversations on TikTok while everybody is screaming is the equivalent of trying to hold a conversation in a bar while a brawl is happening. You just have to leave the bar.

Trust me: all of this will be addressed. But in a kind, slow, civil manner. I am also going through my own big, personal problems at the moment. So I beg you, Bernadette (and anyone else who's wondering), I'm mostly staying off social media and away from there, not because I can't engage with the content, but because I need to be with my kid. Trust me, believe me. Priorities.

I wonder, though, with these issues.....if things might also be a little more profound, because unlike 2012, I have my patrons to come to. To ask for feedback, for help, for impressions, ideas.

This is where you come in.

I know that many of you aren't on TikTok but some of you may be. It's mostly a platform for a younger generation, and I know that my patrons tend to skew older (especially because there's a paywall), but I know we have at least ONE patron here under 40 (I'm looking at you, Rae...wait! and Angel). But many of you are parents, and might have teenagers that use TikTok, and may have impressions and so on that you could share.

SO: here is what i would ask, and, as usual, I'll read all the comments here (I'm staying off TikTok and other areas of social media right now for my mental health):

What do you think the best way to address this is, right now?

If you've come across this, what would you want to ask me?

What would you want to know, to discuss? To learn about me?

If you were me, and you saw that there were a lot of new people coming my way - with no context about who I am, what I've done, and what's already been discussed - how would you navigate this?

What I am seeing right now is that there are plenty of places on the internet that have compiled lists of reasons Why You Should Hate Amanda Palmer, but I've never actually compiled a list of central resource that addresses each of the issues.

Is it perhaps time to do that? If I did that, would you help me?

Is it time to write one big essay called "Amanda Palmer clarifies all her kerfuffles, for the TikTok generation and anyone else who is interested"?

Is it time to just get off the internet for a couple months? (it seems very tempting).

What is hardest is this: a text message from a random friend on the island saying "hey, someone was talking at a dinner party last night about how sad it is that you're transphobic."

this is gossip, and it pains me.

it especially pains me when i think about my community. my fans, my patrons who are trans. what do they feel when they hear that? do they question whether or not i love them? do they second-guess everything i've ever said about inclusivity and wonder if i'm secretly a TERF?

the same holds try for the racist stuff and my community who or BiPOC. is it just too scary to hang around me? is it too messy? even if my community know that i've done all sort of things to explain why i've made mistakes, multiple mistakes, that covering an NWA song was a dumb idea, and so forth....i wonder if it makes people of color in my community just look at me, and the charges leveled at me, and say "it's just not worth it. she's too hard to be with."

for the record: i think trans people are beautiful. i support trans rights. i believe that trans rights are human fucking rights and watching what is currently happening in the states with regards to trans rights is horrifying. i think that racism is a huge fucking problem - in america and the world over - and i think that privileged white people like me still have a fuck ton of things to learn and active work to do to understand what moves we need to make to support progress and create justice. i try to do this work. i'm always trying to figure out how my words, my art, my contribution, can add to progress and cause less suffering. for everybody.

PHEW.

I know that was a lot.

But... it's been a lot.

Talk to me.
Blimey, she and Guest have a very similar style. I’d never heard of her until there was a perfume oil collab with her/about her work a good few years ago.
Then there was the work for free for me thing, following the perfumes and I then got the feeling she was a fairly unpleasant self obsessed grifty knobend.
 
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PunkyMonkey

Chatty Member
I'd say "unbelievable" but... It's not, because we already know she is a narcissistic energy vampire and exhibitionist grief tourist. Disgusting.
 
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sweetnessfollows

VIP Member
She said the n-word in her songs for a decade and got indignant that no one told her it was wrong for a white woman to do that.

Then she got indignant for doing a terrible Encanto cover where the TikTok kids tore into her.

She seems insufferable but divorce isn't fun no matter who you are. I hope their kid is ok bc both her and Neil Gaiman seem exhausting.
 
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sirbenfro

Active member
Shane McGowen has died, and Amanda can't ever hold back from making a celebrity death all about her. After waxing lyrical about how awesome he was, she moves on to make it about her: featuring an implication that being from Kent makes you an alcoholic, and still centring herself in the "family crisis" which appears to be an elderly relative dying in hospital. Just after this she posted a photo of said person in their hospital bed, face obscured, but out of respect I'm not going to put it here.


Screenshot 2023-11-30 154132.png
 
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colouredlines

VIP Member
Her latest, beg on toast post


Dear Everyone...

Below is a link to "ENJOY THE SILENCE": the Depeche Mode cover I recorded exactly one week ago, when I went into Roundhead Studios in Auckland (fun fact, created by Neil Finn of Crowded House!) for two full days of studio time with no planned agenda.

I had a professional film crew webcast my studio process for over 10 hours, while my patrons watched, chatted, joked and discussed with me. At one point they voted - fair and square - on a cover song they wanted to hear: the winner was "Enjoy the Silence"....a song that's near and dear to my tired old goth heart.

Over the course of the two days, my patrons hung out with me in the studio via the webcast while I picked the key, made tempo choices, arranged the piano, explained my thinking and choices, recorded the tracks, went into a vocal booth, decided on overdubs and effects...everything. It was a masterclass in how to create a cover song, and it was SO FUN...I had the best two days of my life in a long time. We all felt...together. The studio crew were incredible and worked really hard to do several jobs at once: put on a webcast show and record a song simultaneously.

My patrons helped me work; we all kept each other company all over the world. People woke up and went to bed and kissed each other good night and good morning. We celebrated a birthday, everybody heard me pee by accident at one point, we had two special guests come into the studio (Neil Gaiman and Reb Fountain).

Two days after we finished, I sent the final mix over to Jherek Bischoff to master and he added a few extra heart-crushing strings, recorded in his house in LA. The result is this almost-too-beautiful-for-words (see what I did there) recording.

You can listen to it, read the entire story, see all the photos, and access all the webcast links through the ink below. The song will play right off the patron post, and there's also a soundcloud link, where you can download it.

For now, you need to be a patron to listen.

Why? Because patronage is what paid for this all to happen. In the old system - when I was on a major label - there is no way that this kind of "work" could make a profit. There was no avenue through which to "monetize" this kind of fast and connected creativity. On the contrary: I used to pay my own money out of pocket to do hi-jinks like this, and just consider myself lucky that I earned enough money on the road to support my "weird project" habit. Now I can do weird projects and get PAID.

This song will probably not be going up on Spotify, as I'm currently in the middle of figuring out what to do with my music over there given the current tussle over there.

I'll likely put it on Bandcamp when I have the time to do some hollering about it on the Internetz. It's a really good cover, it moves me, I know it's good. So it's worth my time and attention, and I don't have that now...I'm on my own with my kid for the next few days.

My friends: I will crawl out of my hole and remind you every once in a while: I'm a working musician, it's a strange way to earn a living, and there are costs.

This is my JOB. I know it sounds weird, but it is.

I have to earn. I can make these magical sounds, but the money to pay for the recording studio, the film crew, the engineers, the mastering, the piano tuning, my house rent, my food, my office rent in New York, my assistant Micahel's salary and insurance costs...it does not happen by goddamn magic. Beyond patronage, I do not have another major source of income right now, especially with Covid and no touring happening. You know how I wrote a bestselling book back in 2014? That doesn't mean anything at the moment. I do not get a check. I GOT that check already.

The music and the art happens because people want me to put it into the world, and some are willing to give me a salary so that I can work. Those people are my patrons. Their collective dollars cover my ability to live and work.

It really is that basic. It's REAL.

If you want to become a patron right now, I'd love it. I had about 15,000 patrons at the start of the pandemic, and that's dwindled down to around 12,000. That trend isn't uncommon right now: the pandemic has led to a lot of belt-tightening for all people who use crowdfunding. I am still fine. I will not starve, I've cut costs, I'm in a very safe zone.

But I know there are people out there who love my work who maybe haven't considered giving me $1 a month in order to keep me in my job and safe zone.

I'm so: I'm asking. And you'll get to hear this beautiful song and get access to the 10+ hours of studio footage. Yes, it's a sales pitch. Yes, I am not above that. I'm Amanda Palmer. Have you forgotten?

If you can't afford it? Don't do it. Don't struggle. It's more than okay. The beautiful thing about patronage is that almost nothing STAYS behind the paywall for very long.

I'll put the song out to the public sometime soon - on Bandcamp - and I may even ask my patrons if they think cutting together a little youtube clip (30, 40 minutes?) of the best-of-the-studio-process footage is a good use of funds. That will go out free to everyone, probably on Vimeo and Youtube, funded by the patrons. Everybody wins. I know there are a lot of people out there who want the art but who cannot afford to pay me for it. That's fine. It all comes around.

I said it before and I'll say it once more: it costs as little as a dollar a month to be a patron.

If you are wondering What You Can Do in the face of the Spotifys, you can do THIS.

This. You can support an artist directly and pay her for her hard work, and feel the pleasure in knowing that 99% of your money isn't going into the pocket of some creepy middleman. It feels nice, trust me.

Enjoy the Music.

And to my readers here who are already patrons...thank you. You know it means the world to me to have your support, financial and emotional and otherwise. Thank you for being my art family, and thank you helping me make this. I love you all to bits.

Here it is, folks:


x AFP
Amazing how in one post she can say "I will not starve" AND reveal that she's making at least 12.000$ a month (probably a lot more, that figure assumes everyone is paying the minimum tier).

Damn right you're not going to starve on that!
 
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She seems to be acting as a single mother, though he occasionally joins them, or seems to look after their son. Like when she went to New Zealand again, this January. They were there for a month, and he went with them. I wonder if she's cut him out or if he's chosen to concentrate on his career for a bit.

She posted this to Twitter, fairly recently:



Their poor son.
A graduate of the Jack Monroe Twitter School of talking tit, I see.
 
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FamilyDollarSushi

Chatty Member
This has come up on other threads but it deseves a place here for your scorn: In which Amanda Fucking Palmer claims she understands how Sinéad O'Connor, a supremely talented woman who had suffered abuse as a child and had PTSD and was bipolar in a very repressive world, felt being booed at Madison Square Gardens because she had made an astonishingly brave statement that would only be grudgingly acknowledged to be true many years later. Amanda knows how this feels because she too has been shouted down and drowned out and wondered if she was crazy. And Sinéad would be proud of her for rattling off the first stupid self-absorbed thoughts that come to her mind when she hears the news of Sinéad's death.

"
Sinéad.

If I were a different kind of person I would let it settle and wait a few days to collect my thoughts and do this the right and grown-up way but I think she’d be more proud of me for writing like this….pulled off to the side of the highway writing from my fucking heart because that’s she did, all her life, made from the heart.

I got my first Sinéad record at age 14 - I Do Not Want What I Have Not Got - dubbed from my mentor Anthony’s CD collection onto a 90-minute Maxell XLII blank cassette tape. It changed my life. I wanted the artwork, so I borrowed Anthony’s CD booklet, took it down to the town library xerox machine, copied it, and carefully and lovingly cut it to size for a cassette tape. So I could see her face.

Her face.

I learned every song by heart.

She was fierceness and honestly incarnate.

She howled her heart out so purely that people had no idea what to make of it.

This is a woman who ripped up a picture of the pope on Saturday Night Live (when it had no ”safety delay”) to draw attention to the sex abuse happening in the Catholic Church, after delivering “War” by Bob Marley, a cappella:

Until the philosophy which hold one race
Superior and another Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned
Everywhere is war.

Twelve days later she took the stage at Madison Square Garden for a Bob Dylan tribute festival and you could barely hear her sing over the boos and jeers from the crowd. She scrapped her planned Dylan song and screamed out “War” again, as the crowd tried to overpower her.

That feeling. Many women have been there. I have been there too, shaking, as it feels like the whole world is trying to shout and drown you out, and put you in your place. Wondering if I am the crazy one. Wondering if this many people are right. Or wrong. Or even real.

She was right about the church. She was very fucking right.

She was right about so many things.

Now that she is dead, I know she’ll be lauded and applauded.

But back then? That night? How do you imagine she felt that night, crawling into bed, having been abused by a crowd of thousands? How would you feel? What would that do to you? Would you care if the world turned around, forty years later, and said: “Sorry about that, you were actually very brave?”

This is a woman who boycotted the Grammys saying she did not want “to be part of a world that measures artistic ability by material success.” This is a woman who refused to play US national anthem before certain concerts. That went down reallll well, too.

She was hated, she was scorned, she was cancelled for being honest over and over again. That SNL move was the beginning of the end of a career in many ways. She never recovered.

Too much, they said. Go away.

She used her voice. She kept on speaking.

She was loud. Being a loud woman is not fucking convenient, for anyone. Ever. Not around here.

She was strikingly beautiful. She shaved her head and gave the middle finger to the beauty standard. She wore combat boots and jeans. She opened her mouth to the max, literally. She did not mumble; she roared. She inspired me into taking power; she inspired so many of my friends. She showed us all another way. There’s this way, too. Go this way, she seemed to be screaming, GO.

Dismissed as crazy. She struggled, and she struggled, and she struggled. She was punished, she was mocked, she was ridiculed.

She retreated and came back time and time again, her roar ragged, her frustration jagged and visible. Painful. You could see it, feel it. We mourned it, me and my friends.

Sinéad? Misunderstood? Which chicken, which egg?

What the world did to Sinéad was death by a thousand cuts. The world lauded her, worshipped her, bought her, sold her, forgave her, claimed her, disavowed her. Over and over in cycles. How could anyone survive that? Like a piece of metal getting bent over and over and over again. It breaks.

She began as a fragile person. A fragile artist. Which is why her songs were so beautiful and powerful to begin with. A raw heart. A mother. Not an idea, not a theoretical. A person.

The world loved the taste of her. The world didn’t know how to digest her. The world spit her out.

She never apologized for ripping up that picture of the pope. When asked later, she said “I’m not sorry I did it. It was brilliant”.

It was.

She was.

Never forget this woman.

Let her memory guide us.

Let them scream at you, but do not stop singing.

Never apologize just to make them happy, to make them go away, to “get along”, to make them accept you.

No, no, no.

Me say War.

Sinéad….rest in world-changing ripped paper phoenix-pieces from the stage, rising and burning into the white night stars. Find peace at last. I hope you forgive us what we could not give you."
Long overdue for someone to tell this twat to sit down and shut her fool ass mouth!

Like this talentless beggar C U Next Tuesday was even on Sinead’s radar.

The grief vultures coming out after her death are disgusting.
Didn’t give a shit about her in life but using her to get likes, false sympathy and ass pats on social media🖕
 
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I feel like this thread has Unleashed the Neil hate in me tonight.

Someone mentioned about his Doctor Who episode.

He likes to portray himself as a lefty feminist bloke who says things like " I like stories about women who save themselves" , yet he can not write a female character who feels like a genuine women.

A lot of his adult female characters come across as either manic pixie dream girls, potential girlfriend or mean bitches.
He’s been absolutely cleaning up the manic pixie dream girls (ie: very vulnerable younger women) based on his formula. Sorry Neil but modern women see through you.
 
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Copacapybara

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Can we talk about his Doctor Who episode?
It was about a woman who was the human personification of the TARDIS… really cool idea, but her name was “Sexy” 🙄
It never sat right with me, like it was demeaning to the character.
He wants to appear right-on and super- woke I think, and likes the kudos/ feeling of relevance its brings, so he keeps his predictable sexism on the down low as it wouldn’t match his image. But inevitably it’s going to emerge sometimes by accident….

And there is this cultivated patronising friendliness on his blogs/social media but it just feels weird, like the cynicism/ superiority and actual personality surfaces on occasion and feels somehow more authentic.

I would be curious to know what her experiences really were with him.
 
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Flibbertigibbet

Chatty Member
I hope his 'singing' has improved since that 'evening with' album they did.

Amanda has been doing some promo for a new EP of ' New Zealand survival songs'. I always thought that they split early into covid lockdown, but some of the things she has been saying about the EP seem to suggest that they split just before it started? But I am sure they were acting like they were happily playing house in an Airb&b until they weren't.

Maybe they split and tried to give it another go before it all fell apart fully? Who knows?

One thing that I can never let go of when it comes to her, she wants us all to know she was having such a depressed sad time in New Zealand, a country that quickly and tightly closed its boarders allowing its citizens to spend much less time in lockdown and restrictions that other place. She practically had a normal life compared to most

However, she is still not as a big a Bellend as Neil ' fell out with my wife so abandoned my child on the other side of the world not knowing when I would be allowed back on the country' Gaiman.

No matter what he does or says or creates, I can't go back to seeing him as a harmless quirky writer man.
Neil Gaiman's fans forgave him for that fairly quickly, even though they'd lose their minds altogether if a writer they *didn't* like did it. It was unforgiveable though - for his child as well as everyone who made sacrifices and everyone in Skye who didn't need people bringing Covid to them.
 
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rage naan

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KI cannot believe this thread is so short. She's ridiculous.
Every so often I hate watch this video. It just... Can you imagine. The whole giving you a flower and insisting on making eye contact. Brrrr. It's way beyond a normal word like cringe.

this thread begins with a list of dislikeable things about Amanda. I would like to add:

her eyebrows
The absolute look at me I'm so edgy cringe of adopting "fucking" as a middle name
The weapons grade further cringe of signing everything "AFP"
The "everything I do is ART" stuff. Getting her fans to write all over her boobs and calling it art like she's Marina Abramovic
Those stupid fucking arm sleeve things
Her eyebrows. It always wound me up no end cos she's all "I don't remove my body hair for I am a Feminist". Oh piss off
 
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Limey

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For better or worse I'm one of her patreons (at this point I just stick around in the lowest tier for the drama), this is her response about the Surface Pressure controversy and everything else that spilled out from it

I need your input. It's....one of those moments. (*Insert Every Single Circus Emoji*)

**I am, as stated above, reading all comments until this line is deleted**.

While I was working through some stuff in my personal life that had absolutely nothing to do with my art, my career, the internet, or anything public-facing, a classic kerfuffle (as we call it around here) blew my way.

Last week, a discussion about Amanda Palmer blew up on Tiktok: first because people didn't like my rendition of "Surface Pressure", then because the cover itself was deemed an appropriation, and within a few days, the conversation had turned to why I was just generally a terrible person (and a racist, and a transphobe, and an ableist, and an antisemite, and a person who doesn't pay her staff, and the list goes on and on, and is a very familiar list at this point).

One thing I truly love about the low-walled garden of the patreon is this: in these odd moments, I can always come here directly, to you, to talk more quietly, away from the loud arena of social media.

And I also realized something over this past week: I've become much more adept than I used to be at handling the collision of personal/family problems and public-facing/internet problems.

If you read "The Art of Asking", you may remember that around 2012 was one of the hardest stretched of my life and career: it was Kickstarter/Crowdfunding kerfuffle year...but it was also Anthony's cancer and chemo. I'll never be able to untangle those two things, the same way I'll never be able to untangle Anthony's death - and the grief I was dealing with - from Ash's birth. They'll always live together as a pair of beautiful, morbid, bittersweet twins.

In 2012, I wound up fighting two fronts at the same time, the very public, and the very personal.

I remember days when I was sitting with Anthony - my very best friend - in the hospital, watching the chemo drip into his body, and meanwhile my phone was buzzing with the alarm of another 1,000 people on twitter telling me that i was a piece of shit who should just kill myself.

I would walk with Anthony from the hospital parking lot to the house and have to step away because my manager was calling, because someone had hacked into my facebook and was posting violent porn.

I would be sitting with Anthony during his bone marrow transplant, in a sterile room, and I would have to be holding, at the same time, the image of a tweet with a thousand likes about how I was a transphobic anti-semite who should be cancelled.

Things happen at the same time, sometimes. Maybe: all the time?

Anyone dealing with a kerfuffle on the internet, or an abortion off the internet, or a cancelation from a friend or family member, or the dirty secret of a partner who has an addiction and is hitting rock bottom in the basement while you try to explain to the family why they haven't shown up for dinner....basically anybody who's ever dealt with LIFE knows that you are never afforded the luxury of having spacious time to grieve, endless time to deal, scads time to stop everything you're doing and tend to a crisis. You juggle. You try. You attempt to keep pace with the world while still keeping pace with yourself.

And good lord, I know how "internet -> real life" bleed works, I've been dealing with it since 2007. Sometimes a pile-on (or kerfuffle, or whatever you wanna call it) will happen on the internet, but you can ignore it. And sometimes, you know it's more serious when you walk into a party, or a cafe, or start getting sympathetic text messages from your friends "because I am seeing what is happening online". That is happening right now, in my life.

I've now been through a dozen of these moments, perhaps more, in the span of my career. I always learn something, I always come out a little more battered but a little more insightful, and I always take a step back and try to figure out myself, my community, the world, my actions, my artwork and my voice.

I've been making art and being a public figure on the internet for SO LONG and been through SO MANY SHITSTORMS that I really am able to be somewhat dispassionate at this point, and a little bit clinical. Not that these things aren't important. But they don't feel like The End of the World anymore. Ten years ago, they did.

I find myself able to look at things like a professor: What happened? Why? More importantly: Why Now? What are people going through that this is the moment they need to say these things to me, and to each other? Especially if these are things being dredged up from the past that have already been addressed: What do I represent to people? How much of it is "me" (do I still have things to learn, to say, to apologize for, to be accountable for?) and how much of it is "them" (can these people not google the blogs I already wrote about this shit?)

I was having such a hard personal week that I simply walked away from TikTok. I couldn't read the abuse, it was too much to look at. It's pretty horrendous stuff to see about yourself.

But also: I cannot walk away. I always want to be real, accountable. Open. Learning.

I've done some dumb things in my career, for sure, and I've spoken and written at length about those things....and still, the level of abuse that's currently getting leveled at me is pretty seismic.

And YET....also.....I've built up a pretty thick skin over the years. I worry about how thick, sometimes. I don't want to become bitter, or hard.

It's only in moments like this that I get to test the new hardness and thickness, to see what penetrates and gets to my heart and what just bounces off as a broken arrow.

I don't ever want to get so hard that I cannot be bent, that I cannot learn, and join with others in an actual conversation. I never want to live in a fucking echo chamber. That feels like death.

But even the scale of things doesn't matter to me as much as it used to. And I don't know whether that's good or bad, sometimes.

As of a few days ago, my little 15-second "Surface Pressure" clip has now been viewed over 3 million times on TikTok.....but the more than 30,000 comments (THIRTY. THOUSAND.) on that post and my subsequent posts are along the lines of: "hey bestie whats ur favorite slur" and "U R a racist" and so forth. Endlessly. It's....a lot.

It's not a dialogue about whether the "art" is good or bad anymore; it is not even a dialogue.

It's all stemming from the many moments in my past - all of which have been addressed and blogged about at one point or another, SOMEWHERE on the internet - that keep resurfacing without context.

Most centrally (and probably missing from these many little internet spaces) is the post I wrote over a year ago about the lyrics in "Guitar hero" and "Fuck tha Police" by NWA (a song I covered on ukulele many years ago)...and about why I have, in the case of "Guitar Hero" changed those lyrics, and, in the case of "Fuck Tha Police", why I would never cover a song like that again: https://blog.amandapalmer.net/racism-words-art-time-progress/.

I could go on and on, and clarify the other 10 things that keep surfacing, but now...I step back, and I wonder. I big-picture wonder. And I wonder what you all might bring to the table, to this discussion.

I mean: if you know me, I've been here so, so, so many times.

I've always weathered this storm. I will easily weather this one.

I wanted to address one issue very directly, and ask about it, after seeing this on the patron FB page..a place I rarely hang, and a place I hope we can sort of import gradually over to the discord when the time is finally ripe (I know I keep promising, but then life keeps biting me in the ass.....but soon).

View attachment 1164041



First of all, I want you to know that I'm really listening here.

HERE, for the time being. I cannot go, at the moment, to TikTok and listen. It is too harsh, and too loud to hear anything.

It honestly never occurred to me that covering "Surface Pressure", or any other song from "Encanto", would be considered in poor taste, or appropriation. The patron who requested it, Kya Farquhar, is half filipino. We never discussed this aspect of the cover when it was requested; and I didn't see a hundred patrons (or even one?) on the webcast that day saying "NO!!! AMANDA!!! NOOOOOO! That's a BAD IDEA!"

But no matter: this is still my responsibility. And just because I, or Kya (or any of the patrons on that webcast when it was requested) didn't "catch" this or necessarily think that the song was or wasn't appropriation, well....that doesn't mean that it isn't. Like many things, it's in the eye - or ear - of the receiver. So it's really more about how the song is affecting people. It's about that. It's not about "what I meant". So I would like to come to YOU. And ask. I ask YOU, my patrons, especially my patrons of color, and super-especially if you're Latinx, maybe even from Colombia: and ask.

Does it feel wrong? Does it not sit well? Please talk to me. Clearly some voices are already speaking. I want to know why, and I want to listen.

And as for me "not addressing" the criticism: let me reassure you about that. I stopped looking at TikTok the minute the comments became 99% abusive and I just couldn't handle the fire. That is, in my humble opinion, always the wisest option for one's mental health when something like this is happening. But it also means I stepped out of the civil side of the conversation as well. I want to have it, and I am going to have it, but not while the tenor over there is so hot that I cannot hear other speak, or be heard. Trying to have nuanced conversations on TikTok while everybody is screaming is the equivalent of trying to hold a conversation in a bar while a brawl is happening. You just have to leave the bar.

Trust me: all of this will be addressed. But in a kind, slow, civil manner. I am also going through my own big, personal problems at the moment. So I beg you, Bernadette (and anyone else who's wondering), I'm mostly staying off social media and away from there, not because I can't engage with the content, but because I need to be with my kid. Trust me, believe me. Priorities.

I wonder, though, with these issues.....if things might also be a little more profound, because unlike 2012, I have my patrons to come to. To ask for feedback, for help, for impressions, ideas.

This is where you come in.

I know that many of you aren't on TikTok but some of you may be. It's mostly a platform for a younger generation, and I know that my patrons tend to skew older (especially because there's a paywall), but I know we have at least ONE patron here under 40 (I'm looking at you, Rae...wait! and Angel). But many of you are parents, and might have teenagers that use TikTok, and may have impressions and so on that you could share.

SO: here is what i would ask, and, as usual, I'll read all the comments here (I'm staying off TikTok and other areas of social media right now for my mental health):

What do you think the best way to address this is, right now?

If you've come across this, what would you want to ask me?

What would you want to know, to discuss? To learn about me?

If you were me, and you saw that there were a lot of new people coming my way - with no context about who I am, what I've done, and what's already been discussed - how would you navigate this?

What I am seeing right now is that there are plenty of places on the internet that have compiled lists of reasons Why You Should Hate Amanda Palmer, but I've never actually compiled a list of central resource that addresses each of the issues.

Is it perhaps time to do that? If I did that, would you help me?

Is it time to write one big essay called "Amanda Palmer clarifies all her kerfuffles, for the TikTok generation and anyone else who is interested"?

Is it time to just get off the internet for a couple months? (it seems very tempting).

What is hardest is this: a text message from a random friend on the island saying "hey, someone was talking at a dinner party last night about how sad it is that you're transphobic."

this is gossip, and it pains me.

it especially pains me when i think about my community. my fans, my patrons who are trans. what do they feel when they hear that? do they question whether or not i love them? do they second-guess everything i've ever said about inclusivity and wonder if i'm secretly a TERF?

the same holds try for the racist stuff and my community who or BiPOC. is it just too scary to hang around me? is it too messy? even if my community know that i've done all sort of things to explain why i've made mistakes, multiple mistakes, that covering an NWA song was a dumb idea, and so forth....i wonder if it makes people of color in my community just look at me, and the charges leveled at me, and say "it's just not worth it. she's too hard to be with."

for the record: i think trans people are beautiful. i support trans rights. i believe that trans rights are human fucking rights and watching what is currently happening in the states with regards to trans rights is horrifying. i think that racism is a huge fucking problem - in america and the world over - and i think that privileged white people like me still have a fuck ton of things to learn and active work to do to understand what moves we need to make to support progress and create justice. i try to do this work. i'm always trying to figure out how my words, my art, my contribution, can add to progress and cause less suffering. for everybody.

PHEW.

I know that was a lot.

But... it's been a lot.

Talk to me.
She needs to have some time off. Maybe 20 or 30 years.
 
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thegirlscout

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Shane McGowen has died, and Amanda can't ever hold back from making a celebrity death all about her. After waxing lyrical about how awesome he was, she moves on to make it about her: featuring an implication that being from Kent makes you an alcoholic, and still centring herself in the "family crisis" which appears to be an elderly relative dying in hospital. Just after this she posted a photo of said person in their hospital bed, face obscured, but out of respect I'm not going to put it here.


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Kent isn’t a small costal town but a county, which is the fifth most populous in the country. He grandfather was from Deal which I wouldn’t say was a terrible place to live, especially as they had enough money for a servant. But if spent most his time growing up in Ireland why blame Kent? Especially as her grandfather had emigrated to America by the 1940s.
 
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