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Flibbertigibbet

VIP Member
This has come up on other threads but it deseves a place here for your scorn: In which Amanda Fucking Palmer claims she understands how Sinéad O'Connor, a supremely talented woman who had suffered abuse as a child and had PTSD and was bipolar in a very repressive world, felt being booed at Madison Square Gardens because she had made an astonishingly brave statement that would only be grudgingly acknowledged to be true many years later. Amanda knows how this feels because she too has been shouted down and drowned out and wondered if she was crazy. And Sinéad would be proud of her for rattling off the first stupid self-absorbed thoughts that come to her mind when she hears the news of Sinéad's death.

"
Sinéad.

If I were a different kind of person I would let it settle and wait a few days to collect my thoughts and do this the right and grown-up way but I think she’d be more proud of me for writing like this….pulled off to the side of the highway writing from my fucking heart because that’s she did, all her life, made from the heart.

I got my first Sinéad record at age 14 - I Do Not Want What I Have Not Got - dubbed from my mentor Anthony’s CD collection onto a 90-minute Maxell XLII blank cassette tape. It changed my life. I wanted the artwork, so I borrowed Anthony’s CD booklet, took it down to the town library xerox machine, copied it, and carefully and lovingly cut it to size for a cassette tape. So I could see her face.

Her face.

I learned every song by heart.

She was fierceness and honestly incarnate.

She howled her heart out so purely that people had no idea what to make of it.

This is a woman who ripped up a picture of the pope on Saturday Night Live (when it had no ”safety delay”) to draw attention to the sex abuse happening in the Catholic Church, after delivering “War” by Bob Marley, a cappella:

Until the philosophy which hold one race
Superior and another Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned
Everywhere is war.

Twelve days later she took the stage at Madison Square Garden for a Bob Dylan tribute festival and you could barely hear her sing over the boos and jeers from the crowd. She scrapped her planned Dylan song and screamed out “War” again, as the crowd tried to overpower her.

That feeling. Many women have been there. I have been there too, shaking, as it feels like the whole world is trying to shout and drown you out, and put you in your place. Wondering if I am the crazy one. Wondering if this many people are right. Or wrong. Or even real.

She was right about the church. She was very fucking right.

She was right about so many things.

Now that she is dead, I know she’ll be lauded and applauded.

But back then? That night? How do you imagine she felt that night, crawling into bed, having been abused by a crowd of thousands? How would you feel? What would that do to you? Would you care if the world turned around, forty years later, and said: “Sorry about that, you were actually very brave?”

This is a woman who boycotted the Grammys saying she did not want “to be part of a world that measures artistic ability by material success.” This is a woman who refused to play US national anthem before certain concerts. That went down reallll well, too.

She was hated, she was scorned, she was cancelled for being honest over and over again. That SNL move was the beginning of the end of a career in many ways. She never recovered.

Too much, they said. Go away.

She used her voice. She kept on speaking.

She was loud. Being a loud woman is not fucking convenient, for anyone. Ever. Not around here.

She was strikingly beautiful. She shaved her head and gave the middle finger to the beauty standard. She wore combat boots and jeans. She opened her mouth to the max, literally. She did not mumble; she roared. She inspired me into taking power; she inspired so many of my friends. She showed us all another way. There’s this way, too. Go this way, she seemed to be screaming, GO.

Dismissed as crazy. She struggled, and she struggled, and she struggled. She was punished, she was mocked, she was ridiculed.

She retreated and came back time and time again, her roar ragged, her frustration jagged and visible. Painful. You could see it, feel it. We mourned it, me and my friends.

Sinéad? Misunderstood? Which chicken, which egg?

What the world did to Sinéad was death by a thousand cuts. The world lauded her, worshipped her, bought her, sold her, forgave her, claimed her, disavowed her. Over and over in cycles. How could anyone survive that? Like a piece of metal getting bent over and over and over again. It breaks.

She began as a fragile person. A fragile artist. Which is why her songs were so beautiful and powerful to begin with. A raw heart. A mother. Not an idea, not a theoretical. A person.

The world loved the taste of her. The world didn’t know how to digest her. The world spit her out.

She never apologized for ripping up that picture of the pope. When asked later, she said “I’m not sorry I did it. It was brilliant”.

It was.

She was.

Never forget this woman.

Let her memory guide us.

Let them scream at you, but do not stop singing.

Never apologize just to make them happy, to make them go away, to “get along”, to make them accept you.

No, no, no.

Me say War.

Sinéad….rest in world-changing ripped paper phoenix-pieces from the stage, rising and burning into the white night stars. Find peace at last. I hope you forgive us what we could not give you."
 
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Flibbertigibbet

VIP Member
Oh wow look at this... I sense AP may have egged these women into coming forward and all is not as they say (but just guessing obviously, and I am very 'believe women' so I hate thinking it) https://www.tortoisemedia.com/2024/07/03/exclusive-neil-gaiman-accused-of-sexual-assault/
I don't know... how would it benefit Amanda? Revenge, maybe, but she has a child with him. Then again she is a narcissistic loon.

It's dangerous for women to be fans who meet their heroes. We know "groupies" are easy prey for rockstars, but being a man of letters is no different. I'm thinking of David Foster Wallace in particular here, who used his trendy lectures and book-readings as hunting grounds. Or even Julian Assange - I think he did molest those Swedish women during what started as a consensual encounter, and I think that's what plausibly happened here too - fans, delighted with the attentions of their heroes, pushed beyond their consent and unable to stop it. In both cases the women reported similar abuses and patterns of behaviour. That is how they got Saville, albeit after his death - they could trace his MO from numerous complaints.
 
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Flibbertigibbet

VIP Member
Kent is a long way from Tipperary. Shane MacGowan would snarl at her, puke on her shoes, and still write a lyric better than her entire oeuvre while blind drunk and forgetting her name.
 
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Hollaaa

VIP Member
That whole post is so offensive and badly written. The arrogance of her thinking she can tell people what they should and shouldn't feel about their own personal situations.
 
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Flibbertigibbet

VIP Member
To think 4 years ago she got a round of applause in a coffee shop because New Zealanders were so thrilled that Biden had been elected President and as the beloved reigning American Queen in NZ they saluted her, according to her, of course. Still, I suppose this rapey husband business is preventing her from writing atrocious poetry about Trump's second inauguration. Every cloud etc.
 
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Jodenice

Member
Her latest, beg on toast post


Dear Everyone...

Below is a link to "ENJOY THE SILENCE": the Depeche Mode cover I recorded exactly one week ago, when I went into Roundhead Studios in Auckland (fun fact, created by Neil Finn of Crowded House!) for two full days of studio time with no planned agenda.

I had a professional film crew webcast my studio process for over 10 hours, while my patrons watched, chatted, joked and discussed with me. At one point they voted - fair and square - on a cover song they wanted to hear: the winner was "Enjoy the Silence"....a song that's near and dear to my tired old goth heart.

Over the course of the two days, my patrons hung out with me in the studio via the webcast while I picked the key, made tempo choices, arranged the piano, explained my thinking and choices, recorded the tracks, went into a vocal booth, decided on overdubs and effects...everything. It was a masterclass in how to create a cover song, and it was SO FUN...I had the best two days of my life in a long time. We all felt...together. The studio crew were incredible and worked really hard to do several jobs at once: put on a webcast show and record a song simultaneously.

My patrons helped me work; we all kept each other company all over the world. People woke up and went to bed and kissed each other good night and good morning. We celebrated a birthday, everybody heard me pee by accident at one point, we had two special guests come into the studio (Neil Gaiman and Reb Fountain).

Two days after we finished, I sent the final mix over to Jherek Bischoff to master and he added a few extra heart-crushing strings, recorded in his house in LA. The result is this almost-too-beautiful-for-words (see what I did there) recording.

You can listen to it, read the entire story, see all the photos, and access all the webcast links through the ink below. The song will play right off the patron post, and there's also a soundcloud link, where you can download it.

For now, you need to be a patron to listen.

Why? Because patronage is what paid for this all to happen. In the old system - when I was on a major label - there is no way that this kind of "work" could make a profit. There was no avenue through which to "monetize" this kind of fast and connected creativity. On the contrary: I used to pay my own money out of pocket to do hi-jinks like this, and just consider myself lucky that I earned enough money on the road to support my "weird project" habit. Now I can do weird projects and get PAID.

This song will probably not be going up on Spotify, as I'm currently in the middle of figuring out what to do with my music over there given the current tussle over there.

I'll likely put it on Bandcamp when I have the time to do some hollering about it on the Internetz. It's a really good cover, it moves me, I know it's good. So it's worth my time and attention, and I don't have that now...I'm on my own with my kid for the next few days.

My friends: I will crawl out of my hole and remind you every once in a while: I'm a working musician, it's a strange way to earn a living, and there are costs.

This is my JOB. I know it sounds weird, but it is.

I have to earn. I can make these magical sounds, but the money to pay for the recording studio, the film crew, the engineers, the mastering, the piano tuning, my house rent, my food, my office rent in New York, my assistant Micahel's salary and insurance costs...it does not happen by goddamn magic. Beyond patronage, I do not have another major source of income right now, especially with Covid and no touring happening. You know how I wrote a bestselling book back in 2014? That doesn't mean anything at the moment. I do not get a check. I GOT that check already.

The music and the art happens because people want me to put it into the world, and some are willing to give me a salary so that I can work. Those people are my patrons. Their collective dollars cover my ability to live and work.

It really is that basic. It's REAL.

If you want to become a patron right now, I'd love it. I had about 15,000 patrons at the start of the pandemic, and that's dwindled down to around 12,000. That trend isn't uncommon right now: the pandemic has led to a lot of belt-tightening for all people who use crowdfunding. I am still fine. I will not starve, I've cut costs, I'm in a very safe zone.

But I know there are people out there who love my work who maybe haven't considered giving me $1 a month in order to keep me in my job and safe zone.

I'm so: I'm asking. And you'll get to hear this beautiful song and get access to the 10+ hours of studio footage. Yes, it's a sales pitch. Yes, I am not above that. I'm Amanda Palmer. Have you forgotten?

If you can't afford it? Don't do it. Don't struggle. It's more than okay. The beautiful thing about patronage is that almost nothing STAYS behind the paywall for very long.

I'll put the song out to the public sometime soon - on Bandcamp - and I may even ask my patrons if they think cutting together a little youtube clip (30, 40 minutes?) of the best-of-the-studio-process footage is a good use of funds. That will go out free to everyone, probably on Vimeo and Youtube, funded by the patrons. Everybody wins. I know there are a lot of people out there who want the art but who cannot afford to pay me for it. That's fine. It all comes around.

I said it before and I'll say it once more: it costs as little as a dollar a month to be a patron.

If you are wondering What You Can Do in the face of the Spotifys, you can do THIS.

This. You can support an artist directly and pay her for her hard work, and feel the pleasure in knowing that 99% of your money isn't going into the pocket of some creepy middleman. It feels nice, trust me.

Enjoy the Music.

And to my readers here who are already patrons...thank you. You know it means the world to me to have your support, financial and emotional and otherwise. Thank you for being my art family, and thank you helping me make this. I love you all to bits.

Here it is, folks:


x AFP
 
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Vanelope

VIP Member
Her Patreon is like a little cult, but thinking about other Patreons that produce nothing ‘Jack Monroe’ - she does churn out a lot of blogs, songs, Q&As, Patreon meet ups and performances and she does giveaways etc and people seem happy to support her. I like the Dresden dolls stuff, I can leave the ukulele. She is talented while also being a narcissist and unbearable showoff. I’m glad she now has real eyebrows.

I also think she is doing her best for Ash.
 
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sirbenfro

Well-known member
I have a question. How many of us are fans of APs music, either now or in the past?

I still like the Dresden Dolls Albums, Who Killed Amanda Palmer and Theater is evil. I not really a fan of anything post There will be no intermission. I fins her later songs a bit meandering, like she needed someone to help edit them. She has to any songs which are just her saying sad sounding things in a whispers voice for several minutes.

The song that pushed me over the edge was Voicemail for Jill. She thinks it is feminist, I find it offensively stupid.

The thing that made me dislike her as a person, was following her on social media and seeing every single thought she had broadcast to the world. If I hadn't done that, I would probably still like her.
Are you me? I was a die hard fan of DD as a teenager back in the noughties, went to all their UK gigs etc and was so excited every time she released new music. I still love maybe 80% of the DD discography, and really liked WKAP and TIE. Personally I started disliking her work when she did the album with Edward Ka-Spel and the joint album with her father, both felt completely alienating and just not good. The album with her dad was especially vanity-project feeling, and I ended up with the impression she was trying to impress him somehow by including him on an album despite the fact he hadn't had any success on his own and perhaps that's because his music just sort of sucked.

There Will be no intermission was pretty poor in my opinion, the last song of hers to wow me was Machete and she released that in 2016. Drowning in the sound was okay, but she seems to think The Ride is her magnum opus and I was so bored by that song, especially as it was like ten minutes long or something stupid.

I went from a $10 per thing patron for years to dropping down to $5, then $3, and now I'm on $1 basically just to farm any gossip worthy content that she's only showing to her patrons. If she can release new music that is on the level of her earlier work I'll happily listen to it, because despite her narcissism and general irritatingness, I do think she is a talented songwriter when she wanted to be. The dolls are apparently working on a new record so it'll be interesting to see if that's any good, but I'm never going to be a fan like I used to be honestly.

Also as an aside, I was deep enough in the fandom for a good while to meet some of her inner circle, and Alex (her UK merch guy) is the most insufferable selfish twit I've ever had the misfortune of knowing. A fair few other close orbiters of hers are equally terrible people, although Jason Webley (who she made the Evelyn Evelyn record with) is a darling and I have no idea how he puts up with her.
 
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salatblader

VIP Member
There is a new episode of ' Master' an account from a women called Claire. She has already spoken to a different podcast.

The thing I don't understand about this account, is that Claire had a boyfriend and was having very intimate conversations with Gaiman, sending and getting pictures and having phone sex, yet seems to maintain that it was a friendship. My boyfriend is not controlling, but he would absolutely hit the roof if he found out I was casually doing that with another person, celebrity or not, whilst claiming it was a friendship. Her boyfriend seems to be aware of some of what was happening as well.

She also talks about being uncomfortable about him from the start, but keeps meeting him even though every time they meet up he touches her inappropriately.

I am not blaming the victim, she obviously feels very distressed about what has happened.

I just can't comprehend how you would get into that situation or how someone would have that much power over you. I think that just means I am lucky that I have not run into someone with that level of charisma.

Getting on my soapbox for a second, this is why we need to talk to young people about consent, how to ask for it, how to give it, but also trusting your instinct and how to say no if someone does not pass a vibe check.
You say you don't want to blame the victim, but you are. She was 18 when she met Gaiman, who was a 40-something huge celebrity, and she was his fan.

Predators like Gaiman carefully choose their victims to make sure the ones they try something with are extremely vulnerable and haven't had the life experience to clock things that might be crossing a boundary. That way, they can groom them and move their boundaries so that they can take advantage of them.

She was a teenager and very young adult who trusted a self-proclaimed feminist who had spoken out about SA a lot, who always said the correct things in public. In this context and this level of power imbalance, saying she should have known better is ridiculous. And she did say no once he made advances, but he ignored her.
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This reminds me of Baby Reindeer when (spoiler alert) he keeps meeting up with the older guy from the TV industry even when he's getting abused by him.
You've obviously never heard of the fawn trauma response
 
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PunkyMonkey

VIP Member
I'd say "unbelievable" but... It's not, because we already know she is a narcissistic energy vampire and exhibitionist grief tourist. Disgusting.
 
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I have enjoyed a lot of his books and comics, and I do enjoy some of her music ( although I much prefer her older stuff). I just don't really like them as people anymore.

What I find really obnoxious is the way Amanda acts like she is the first women to ever experience a common female experience and is now an authority on it.
 
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To think 4 years ago she got a round of applause in a coffee shop because New Zealanders were so thrilled that Biden had been elected President and as the beloved reigning American Queen in NZ they saluted her, according to her, of course. Still, I suppose this rapey husband business is preventing her from writing atrocious poetry about Trump's second inauguration. Every cloud etc.
Iirc that round of applause story was debunked. Nobody in NZ acts like that unless there's been a national disaster and you're a foreign navy crew coming ashore to help.
 
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Did you know his parents were Scientologists?
Yes. Neil Gaiman is from a prominent Scieno family. His (Scieno converts) parents ran a highly profitable East Grinstead (UK Sci headquarters in there) based vitamin supplier business, G&G Vitamins, which I believe is still firmly in business despite his father dying a few years back. His father was also head of PR for the cult for a long time after joining them in the 60s. Scientology uses huge doses of vitamins in various dubious 'therapies' (think giant doses of niacinamide which make your skin go bright red which is used in conjunction with saunas to try and .. oh fuck knows, sweat out your inner demons or some shit they do) so it was basically a company directly connected to the cult, a nice money spinner, doubtless all the dupes were directed there to buy their doses.

I mean, Gaiman is from money. Dresses like a gothy bag person who doesn't own a hairbrush, but then people from actual money often do (see also Helena Bonham Carter for reference), it's only new money that flashes it around. Now, it's not Microsoft money, but he was brought up with money enough to be able to pursue writing - never a big money spinner for most who pursue it - as a career. His first wife was a $cientologist he met at East Grinstead, the ones deep in and generational Scis only marry each other. He was never listed as an SP (Suppressive Person, a label given to anyone in who then renounces Scientology) and was listed as a member in good standing and with donations long after he wasn't really with Mary (his first wife) anymore, so I never believe he's really 'out' out. Anyone who leaves the cult isn't allowed to speak to family still in - they are supposed to shun the leaver and refer to them as an SP. Until I see Gaiman listed as an SP I will not believe he has left. Perhaps he keeps his distance, but I strongly doubt he has broken off contact and put himself in their (traditionally criminally unpleasant) firing line. His sister Claire is apparently Head of International Missions for the cult, so there you go.

Apparently Palmer has some familial connections to Scientology too, but has batted it away to the point of making fun of the 'rumour' in one of her videos (think it was Do It With a Rock Star). I think she's just his type (see Poundland Tori Amos, thirty years too late), but it wouldn't shock me if there was some weird Scieno bullshit behind their connection tbqh.

I recall some scuttlebutt from years and years ago that in his very early career, early-ish eighties, when he was still a journalist, and before he did Sandman and became A Great Big Thing, he was somewhat notorious for shilling $cientology at various writing conventions and annoying the livid blue shit out of people. Seems to have dropped that sharpish after learning how it alienated the very people he wanted to get in with in the publishing industry. He always seems to have had a nose for who to collaborate with or pal up with to increase his options and his audience. The Tori Amos connection probably brought him a decent uptick in sales over time. Amanda Palmer, smaller, but again, it helped keep him connected to younger people through her fanbase.

I know someone who has worked on a couple of TV adaptations of his stuff - American Gods and Sandman, I will one day have to ask her for any scuttlebutt about him or Palmer she's been privy to.
 
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sirbenfro

Well-known member
Shane McGowen has died, and Amanda can't ever hold back from making a celebrity death all about her. After waxing lyrical about how awesome he was, she moves on to make it about her: featuring an implication that being from Kent makes you an alcoholic, and still centring herself in the "family crisis" which appears to be an elderly relative dying in hospital. Just after this she posted a photo of said person in their hospital bed, face obscured, but out of respect I'm not going to put it here.


Screenshot 2023-11-30 154132.png
 
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elepal

Chatty Member
It's very teenage. Someone in the comments asked her to spill the beans, and another commenter told them they were being disrespectful 😂 come off it, it's fair to assume she's doing this for attention IMHO!
 
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sirbenfro

Well-known member
So for better or worse, I've stayed as a patreon follower so I can see what she says or doesn't say. This was posted earlier (I've cut out half of it because she rambles on and on but you get the gist

Hi everyone.

I'm here.

If you're only just catching up with me, or you're new here (welcome, and to a handful of you: welcome back), I just want to remind you that I released a statement a few days ago, it's here on Instagram.

There will be a time and a place where I will address the allegations that many of you will have read or heard about, but, for now, I ask that you continue to respect my request -and you've all been amazing, you truly have - for privacy for my son's sake. Thank you. Truly, thank you.

My heart is currently in fucking pieces.

I am still, in the here and now, a real person. A working artist and a mother.

I've been a touring musician for twenty-five years, and an off-grid crowdfunded artist for fifteen years. This community, this internet-space off and away from "Social Media", this beautiful and wonderful place where I post and release art and write and discuss and listen: this is my workplace.

I know so, so many of you. You all have so many jobs.

Anybody who has gone through pure hell in their personal life and still needs to show up at work hopefully understands. My job as a crowdfunded artist is to make art. For my crowd.

I've been doing this for years through all kinds of weather.

I've received so many messages and missives - emails, texts, DMs, calls - over the last few weeks; I don't know how to keep up. If you have written - anywhere - and I haven't been able to respond, just know that I'm receiving. It's been disorienting. I am trying.

Meanwhile: we've got the internet out there. The clash of the tech titans, my friends and colleagues fleeing Facebook/Instagram/X/Twitter in droves. Trying to re-group, re-gather, re-orient. The Great Where Do We Go. It's chaotic.

For now, the ability to write and publish here directly on the patreon feels, weridly, like a fresh act of resistance even though I've been doing it for ten years without a second thought. Just another place to post, la dee da. But it isn't. It's much more. I know the CEO of the company, I've been here since close to the beginning; I trust the company, I trust the people. I trust the place.
 
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InkHeart

VIP Member
You're right, so it's weird that he demanded to be called Master and obviously wanted submissive women he could degrade. I wonder how the power dynamics worked as a couple, was she less dominant than him in the early days? or did they just prey on people together
I've no proof of this, but my hunch is that she's the worst kind of Cool Girl, and because he likes them young and vulnerbale, she was worried about becoming too old and boring for him. So she'd rather rope in other women to be abused, than risk falling out of favour with him. Then he seems to have left her anyway.
 
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