Afghanistan

[IngressUK]

I don't think people are that sympathetic really, people tend to be more disgusted really about British born people really struggling and not getting the access to houses etc that a lot of immigrants appear get straight away. I know someone who has worked with The Syrian refugees as part of their resettlement programme and they don't think its right at all.
I personally do think we need to help immigrants but that we also need to help our own people as well. Its not right that there's a severe housing shortage in this country and that U.K born people often have to wait 10 years plus for a council house or are told to piss off. This is the Governments fault, not the refugees.

What some also need to grasp is that the UK cannot house and resettle all the world's 'hard done by'. There is a limit to how many can be taken, for which successive Governments and bleeding hard leftists don't seem to understand.

Many would likely be more sympathetic to taking 20,000 (vetted) Afghans in, if it wasn't for the fact that hundreds already illegally enter the country on a weekly basis via the south coast. With estimates predicting well over 20k doing so by the end of 2021. It is estimated that over 1 million illegals now reside in the UK, plus a couple of hundred thousand refugees and Asylum Seekers on top.

 

[Piff paff puff]

Maybe I'm a heartless b or maybe it's because I don't watch tv or read news but I feel nothing about the Afghanistan situation. Tbh after the whole corona rit i just don't believe media and think most is propaganda.
Really though what is really is wrong is the Arrogance of western governments inflicting their supposedly better Western values for the last 20 years. The taliban will be worse than ever now after being humiliated and chased out of THEIR own country for decades.
I don't agree with taliban values, if we are to believe what is said about them but also I don't agree with taking over someone else's country. Where would it end?! How many countries?!
I heard that 85% of afghans support the taliban, who knows if that's true? But we do know that they generally don't Believe in western values.
With vital services in Britain crumbling and not being sufficient for the people already here and the fact that there are thousands of homeless people sleeping on the streets its shocking that thousands of afghans will soon be here taking that accommodation and resources from the people who most deserve our help and support.

 

[Notgonnalie]

 

[Rosie878]

I don't think people are that sympathetic really, people tend to be more disgusted really about British born people really struggling and not getting the access to houses etc that a lot of immigrants appear get straight away. I know someone who has worked with The Syrian refugees as part of their resettlement programme and they don't think its right at all.
I personally do think we need to help immigrants but that we also need to help our own people as well. Its not right that there's a severe housing shortage in this country and that U.K born people often have to wait 10 years plus for a council house or are told to piss off. This is the Governments fault, not the refugees.

If in the past refugees were spread more equally across the country there would be much greater acceptance and support. At the moment the vast majority are sent to deprived areas of the north where resources are scarce already. When the people in these communities get understandably pissed off they are accused of racism by nimbys.

 

[emm]

Would absolutely disagree with his stance. The world is much 'smaller' due to education, internet access, social media. Therefore people would have some idea of what to expect if they left their home country. If I had to suddenly move to Poland, I could access a language app on my phone, I could look up where to buy clothes, food etc and if I wanted to practice a religion, I would be able to find out where to go to do this.

However, this can make people a bit twitchy because people can assimilate at a faster rate than previously and that is perceived as a threat.

There were far fewer cultural similarities in the past, Britain is much more diverse now than 1940s

I agree with the world being smaller, of course, but I think his point was (i would imagine) that most people in somewhere like the UK couldn;t imagine being in a situation like that of Afghanistan today; in the 1930s with Oswold Mosely, for example, things like fascism could have seemed much more likely so you could imagine yourself being a refugee escaping an awful racist regime,could anyone really say that now? I don;t agree that this is the right view, of course not, you should have empathy regardless but it is probably a subconscious factor in a lot of people's views on this situation

 

[thegirlscout]

Where I used to live for uni (I don’t wish to say but it was down south) they had a high rate of people who have moved from the Middle East due to the wars and unrest, and the locals said a massive problem was that they changed the landscape of their communities irrevocably because they just wouldn’t integrate. They wouldn’t learn English, they would wear the burqa (which I have to admit I find quite intimidating) and some areas white women couldn’t visit because these men would stare at them or follow them around.
I remember accompanying my friend to the police station because she had been groped by a recent Syrian refugee and the police said she wouldn’t have a case because the authorities would be soft on him as his culture doesn’t treat women the same way. I was gobsmacked. Later a girl was grape on a night out and the man who did it was a refugee and they had police at the university giving advice and they said that it was best to avoid ‘their areas’ because it’s just too deeply ingrained a problem. The comment ‘their areas’ really stuck with me because shouldn’t it be all our areas? Plus it was difficult to avoid as you needed to walk by ‘their area’ to get to the halls of residence.
So I can understand why some people are fearful of new arrivals who are mostly male as they can cause a massive problem.
I think the local authorities and government need to help newcomers adapt to living in a Western country as it can be a massive culture shock. If they were able to integrate more then I think it would help the them vs us situations that occur.

 

[IngressUK]

Where I used to live for uni (I don’t wish to say but it was down south) they had a high rate of people who have moved from the Middle East due to the wars and unrest, and the locals said a massive problem was that they changed the landscape of their communities irrevocably because they just wouldn’t integrate. They wouldn’t learn English, they would wear the burqa (which I have to admit I find quite intimidating) and some areas white women couldn’t visit because these men would stare at them or follow them around.
I remember accompanying my friend to the police station because she had been groped by a recent Syrian refugee and the police said she wouldn’t have a case because the authorities would be soft on him as his culture doesn’t treat women the same way. I was gobsmacked. Later a girl was grape on a night out and the man who did it was a refugee and they had police at the university giving advice and they said that it was best to avoid ‘their areas’ because it’s just too deeply ingrained a problem. The comment ‘their areas’ really stuck with me because shouldn’t it be all our areas? Plus it was difficult to avoid as you needed to walk by ‘their area’ to get to the halls of residence.
So I can understand why some people are fearful of new arrivals who are mostly male as they can cause a massive problem.
I think the local authorities and government need to help newcomers adapt to living in a Western country as it can be a massive culture shock. If they were able to integrate more then I think it would help the them vs us situations that occur.

The Police are absolutely useless!

Groping, stalking and grape is not on, regardless of the nationality of the person doing such things. You can bet the Police would get involved, if the person was beaten up by others for carrying out those activities.

The Police then wonder why very few have next to no faith in them anymore.

 

[emm]

Where I used to live for uni (I don’t wish to say but it was down south) they had a high rate of people who have moved from the Middle East due to the wars and unrest, and the locals said a massive problem was that they changed the landscape of their communities irrevocably because they just wouldn’t integrate. They wouldn’t learn English, they would wear the burqa (which I have to admit I find quite intimidating) and some areas white women couldn’t visit because these men would stare at them or follow them around.
I remember accompanying my friend to the police station because she had been groped by a recent Syrian refugee and the police said she wouldn’t have a case because the authorities would be soft on him as his culture doesn’t treat women the same way. I was gobsmacked. Later a girl was grape on a night out and the man who did it was a refugee and they had police at the university giving advice and they said that it was best to avoid ‘their areas’ because it’s just too deeply ingrained a problem. The comment ‘their areas’ really stuck with me because shouldn’t it be all our areas? Plus it was difficult to avoid as you needed to walk by ‘their area’ to get to the halls of residence.
So I can understand why some people are fearful of new arrivals who are mostly male as they can cause a massive problem.
I think the local authorities and government need to help newcomers adapt to living in a Western country as it can be a massive culture shock. If they were able to integrate more then I think it would help the them vs us situations that occur.

There are so many issues about this of course, but this is why I think the migration needs to be more balanced, it is well documented that (young) men can be a very destabalsing force (in their own countries or otherwise, a huge reason for the instabilty of a country is a big number of young men who are unemployed/badly employed), men coming with their partners/ families would be a lot better , hence the West needs to help more Women/children to leave imo

 

[Notgonnalie]

Where I used to live for uni (I don’t wish to say but it was down south) they had a high rate of people who have moved from the Middle East due to the wars and unrest, and the locals said a massive problem was that they changed the landscape of their communities irrevocably because they just wouldn’t integrate. They wouldn’t learn English, they would wear the burqa (which I have to admit I find quite intimidating) and some areas white women couldn’t visit because these men would stare at them or follow them around.
I remember accompanying my friend to the police station because she had been groped by a recent Syrian refugee and the police said she wouldn’t have a case because the authorities would be soft on him as his culture doesn’t treat women the same way. I was gobsmacked. Later a girl was grape on a night out and the man who did it was a refugee and they had police at the university giving advice and they said that it was best to avoid ‘their areas’ because it’s just too deeply ingrained a problem. The comment ‘their areas’ really stuck with me because shouldn’t it be all our areas? Plus it was difficult to avoid as you needed to walk by ‘their area’ to get to the halls of residence.
So I can understand why some people are fearful of new arrivals who are mostly male as they can cause a massive problem.
I think the local authorities and government need to help newcomers adapt to living in a Western country as it can be a massive culture shock. If they were able to integrate more then I think it would help the them vs us situations that occur.

I think for anyone to move country into an entirely different culture is a huge deal. They have been taught and surrounded by a particular environment of what is seen as appropriate for their native and unique upbringing. I understand what you’re saying and agree it’s unacceptable how the police handled those situations it’s appalling, however I also think these people come with a lot of baggage so it’s not as simple as learning the language and learning to integrate. They come with the trauma and post traumatic stress of fleeing a war zone. The men are brought up believing that women are second to them. They may not even read or write in their own language so to learn another is a huge ask. I think on the basis it’s pot luck of where you’re born we all need to be kind and welcoming to everyone who requires help whether they’re a refugee or a British born single mum with no income etc it should be done on a priority basis IMO. Fleeing a war zone trumps overcrowding and unemployed. We can’t be all things to all people obviously but we can try. I think there needs to be a better programme for helping refugees integrate into society, but we simply don’t have the resources or funding to do so and that’s why things do end up in such a mess! It should be encouraged that those seeking asylum do become familiar with appropriate behaviour. I guess in their country because it’s almost normal (tragically) that women are abused and grape that’s why they think it’s what they do. I’m not justifying it whatsoever I’m just trying to understand where their thought process could be at.

 

[Merpedy]

I don’t know how this is allowed honestly

 

[IngressUK]

I think for anyone to move country into an entirely different culture is a huge deal. They have been taught and surrounded by a particular environment of what is seen as appropriate for their native and unique upbringing. I understand what you’re saying and agree it’s unacceptable how the police handled those situations it’s appalling, however I also think these people come with a lot of baggage so it’s not as simple as learning the language and learning to integrate. They come with the trauma and post traumatic stress of fleeing a war zone. The men are brought up believing that women are second to them. They may not even read or write in their own language so to learn another is a huge ask. I think on the basis it’s pot luck of where you’re born we all need to be kind and welcoming to everyone who requires help whether they’re a refugee or a British born single mum with no income etc it should be done on a priority basis IMO. Fleeing a war zone trumps overcrowding and unemployed. We can’t be all things to all people obviously but we can try. I think there needs to be a better programme for helping refugees integrate into society, but we simply don’t have the resources or funding to do so and that’s why things do end up in such a mess! It should be encouraged that those seeking asylum do become familiar with appropriate behaviour. I guess in their country because it’s almost normal (tragically) that women are abused and grape that’s why they think it’s what they do. I’m not justifying it whatsoever I’m just trying to understand where their thought process could be at.

Coming from a war zone is not an excuse for commiting crime. There are people out there with mental illness who commit crime, however mental illness is not a 'get out of jail free' card, if they commit a serious crime.

I also disagree that 'those fleeing war zones, trump overcrowding and unemployment'. As I previously said there is an absolute limit to how many can be helped within the UK - yet some still don't seem to understand this. The UK cannot house and financially support every single person fleeing war torn locations.

 

[Notgonnalie]

Sorry, but coming from a war zone is not an excuse. There are people out there with mental illness who commit crime, however mental illness is not a 'get out of jail free' card, if they commit a serious crime.

I think for anyone to move country into an entirely different culture is a huge deal. They have been taught and surrounded by a particular environment of what is seen as appropriate for their native and unique upbringing. I understand what you’re saying and agree it’s unacceptable how the police handled those situations it’s appalling, however I also think these people come with a lot of baggage so it’s not as simple as learning the language and learning to integrate. They come with the trauma and post traumatic stress of fleeing a war zone. The men are brought up believing that women are second to them. They may not even read or write in their own language so to learn another is a huge ask. I think on the basis it’s pot luck of where you’re born we all need to be kind and welcoming to everyone who requires help whether they’re a refugee or a British born single mum with no income etc it should be done on a priority basis IMO. Fleeing a war zone trumps overcrowding and unemployed. We can’t be all things to all people obviously but we can try. I think there needs to be a better programme for helping refugees integrate into society, but we simply don’t have the resources or funding to do so and that’s why things do end up in such a mess! It should be encouraged that those seeking asylum do become familiar with appropriate behaviour. I guess in their country because it’s almost normal (tragically) that women are abused and grape that’s why they think it’s what they do. I’m not justifying it whatsoever I’m just trying to understand where their thought process could be at.

I did say I am not justifying it whatsoever, and that I agreed their crimes were unacceptable but ok

I also disagree that 'those fleeing war zones, trump overcrowding and unemployment'. As I previously said there is an absolute limit to how many can be helped within the UK - yet some still don't seem to understand this. The UK cannot house and financially support every single person fleeing war torn locations.

That’s fine you don’t have to agree with me. I know if I was in the situation of an Afghan woman I would be praying some one would help me. It’s pot luck where you’re born. They aren’t housing or supporting every single person they’re welcoming refugees just like a lot of other countries around the world are. That’s what the right thing to do is in a crisis situation.

 

[IngressUK]

I did say I am not justifying it whatsoever, and that I agreed their crimes were unacceptable but ok


That’s fine you don’t have to agree with me. I know if I was in the situation of an Afghan woman I would be praying some one would help me. It’s pot luck where you’re born. They aren’t housing or supporting every single person they’re welcoming refugees just like a lot of other countries around the world are. That’s what the right thing to do is in a crisis situation.

That is fine, however according to UNHCR statistics, at the end of 2020 there were:

132,349  refugees
77,245 pending asylum cases
4662  stateless persons

= 214,256 people at the end of 2020.

Asylum in the UK | UNHCR UK

A refugee is a person who:

www.unhcr.org

In the UK, The numbers continue to increase on a daily basis.

If the one million people illegally here were removed, then there would be more resources to help those genuinely in need.

 

[ChloeW94]

Where I live in a small town in Scotland we are welcoming 10 families from Afghanistan and I really hope they feel welcomed and settle here

 

[Notgonnalie]

That is fine, however according to UNHCR statistics, at the end of 2020 there were:

132,349  refugees
77,245 pending asylum cases
4662  stateless persons

= 214,256 people at the end of 2020.

Asylum in the UK | UNHCR UK

A refugee is a person who:

www.unhcr.org

In the UK, The numbers continue to increase on a daily basis.

If the one million people illegally here were removed, then there would be more resources to help those genuinely in need.

Yea so not every single person then. Many countries are rightly welcoming refugees. You should consider how you would like to be treated if you ever found yourself in a situation so extreme beyond your control, but your privilege probably means it is unlikely to happen to you.

 

[IngressUK]

Yea so not every single person then. Many countries are rightly welcoming refugees. You should consider how you would like to be treated if you ever found yourself in a situation so extreme beyond your control, but your privilege probably means it is unlikely to happen to you.

Please don't quote the 'privilege' BS at me. It is trotted out far too often nowadays by some, in an attempt to justify what they come out with.

Just because someone happens to be born in/ live in the UK does not mean they are necessarily privileged.

Tell a homeless person, or a person living below the poverty line in the UK they are 'privileged' and you would likely be told to F*** off.

 

[Merpedy]

Yea so not every single person then. Many countries are rightly welcoming refugees. You should consider how you would like to be treated if you ever found yourself in a situation so extreme beyond your control, but your privilege probably means it is unlikely to happen to you.

I think there's generally some ignorance and moral panic about assimilation and how easy or hard it is, plus moral panics about crime and whatever else

What gets overlooked is that children of refugees are going to be pretty likely to assimilate quickly to a certain extent, plus any children they may have while in Britain. Honestly I feel bad for any kids because they will probably meet people who have views that their parents instilled in them and it's overall not very pleasant to deal with

I think privilege here is fair to talk about. It's a lot easier to talk badly of these people when you haven't experienced or are able to empathise much with their situation

Homeless and those living below the poverty line are likely to be more upset because they feel like the system is unfair to them and the only way to express their anger is by blaming refugees or immigrants. Though there's going to be the added effect of not being able to relate/empathise also

 

[Notgonnalie]

Please don't quote the 'privilege' BS at me. It is trotted out far too often nowadays by some, in an attempt to justify what they come out with.

Just because someone happens to be born in/ live in the UK does not mean they are necessarily privileged.

Tell a homeless person, or a person living below the poverty line in the UK they are 'privileged' and you would likely be told to F*** off.

I didn’t say everyone in the U.K. is privileged I said you are privileged which is a fair assumption as although I don’t know you personally I know you have access to the internet and time to debate immigration into the late night.

 

[Sheila Bloom]

Where I live in a small town in Scotland we are welcoming 10 families from Afghanistan and I really hope they feel welcomed and settle here

I’d like to know how many my little Scottish town is welcoming. How did u find out? I would be the first to welcome them

 

[openbook1]

Where I used to live for uni (I don’t wish to say but it was down south) they had a high rate of people who have moved from the Middle East due to the wars and unrest, and the locals said a massive problem was that they changed the landscape of their communities irrevocably because they just wouldn’t integrate. They wouldn’t learn English, they would wear the burqa (which I have to admit I find quite intimidating) and some areas white women couldn’t visit because these men would stare at them or follow them around.
I remember accompanying my friend to the police station because she had been groped by a recent Syrian refugee and the police said she wouldn’t have a case because the authorities would be soft on him as his culture doesn’t treat women the same way. I was gobsmacked. Later a girl was grape on a night out and the man who did it was a refugee and they had police at the university giving advice and they said that it was best to avoid ‘their areas’ because it’s just too deeply ingrained a problem. The comment ‘their areas’ really stuck with me because shouldn’t it be all our areas? Plus it was difficult to avoid as you needed to walk by ‘their area’ to get to the halls of residence.
So I can understand why some people are fearful of new arrivals who are mostly male as they can cause a massive problem.
I think the local authorities and government need to help newcomers adapt to living in a Western country as it can be a massive culture shock. If they were able to integrate more then I think it would help the them vs us situations that occur.

In the UK do they have government "classes" about the culture etc? I know here in Canada those are offered to immigrants.
As well as English lessons at the library, a "friend" class at the library, and sometimes local families can sponsor refugees and "look after" them for the first year.