Afghanistan

[smellsofbiscuits]

I broke down in tears over breakfast this morning. All my friends and I have degrees and many are in professional occupations. The thought of this being wiped out is heart breaking.

Does anyone know the best way to try and help? I'm looking at different places to donate to but would specifically like to send money to charities supporting women and girls.

 

[Notgonnalie]

Where I used to live for uni (I don’t wish to say but it was down south) they had a high rate of people who have moved from the Middle East due to the wars and unrest, and the locals said a massive problem was that they changed the landscape of their communities irrevocably because they just wouldn’t integrate. They wouldn’t learn English, they would wear the burqa (which I have to admit I find quite intimidating) and some areas white women couldn’t visit because these men would stare at them or follow them around.
I remember accompanying my friend to the police station because she had been groped by a recent Syrian refugee and the police said she wouldn’t have a case because the authorities would be soft on him as his culture doesn’t treat women the same way. I was gobsmacked. Later a girl was raped on a night out and the man who did it was a refugee and they had police at the university giving advice and they said that it was best to avoid ‘their areas’ because it’s just too deeply ingrained a problem. The comment ‘their areas’ really stuck with me because shouldn’t it be all our areas? Plus it was difficult to avoid as you needed to walk by ‘their area’ to get to the halls of residence.
So I can understand why some people are fearful of new arrivals who are mostly male as they can cause a massive problem.
I think the local authorities and government need to help newcomers adapt to living in a Western country as it can be a massive culture shock. If they were able to integrate more then I think it would help the them vs us situations that occur.

I think for anyone to move country into an entirely different culture is a huge deal. They have been taught and surrounded by a particular environment of what is seen as appropriate for their native and unique upbringing. I understand what you’re saying and agree it’s unacceptable how the police handled those situations it’s appalling, however I also think these people come with a lot of baggage so it’s not as simple as learning the language and learning to integrate. They come with the trauma and post traumatic stress of fleeing a war zone. The men are brought up believing that women are second to them. They may not even read or write in their own language so to learn another is a huge ask. I think on the basis it’s pot luck of where you’re born we all need to be kind and welcoming to everyone who requires help whether they’re a refugee or a British born single mum with no income etc it should be done on a priority basis IMO. Fleeing a war zone trumps overcrowding and unemployed. We can’t be all things to all people obviously but we can try. I think there needs to be a better programme for helping refugees integrate into society, but we simply don’t have the resources or funding to do so and that’s why things do end up in such a mess! It should be encouraged that those seeking asylum do become familiar with appropriate behaviour. I guess in their country because it’s almost normal (tragically) that women are abused and raped that’s why they think it’s what they do. I’m not justifying it whatsoever I’m just trying to understand where their thought process could be at.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

I think it is hard to generalise.

Some people are big animal lovers and don't like people as much, maybe because of bad experiences.
Some people want to put people first and don't think that animals have the same standard.
Most people are probably sympathetic to both people and animals.

 

[thegirlscout]

Listen buddy, if the mutts and cats were the ones who had evolved over humans the little shits wouldn't think twice about putting all of us humans through a giant mincer. Saints and sinners, men women and juicy little babies would all go the same way.



Sorry to be harsh etc etc, but if this is true then Charlotte is nuts and will regret giving up a precious seat to freedom for a dog.

The released dogs will fend for themselves. Charlotte won't be any use to any creature when the taliban link her to the Farthing farce.
The released dogs' lives will be easier than silly Charlotte's and that's the plain truth.

You don’t always need to be so cruel.
The released dogs are running around an airport with no direct access to food and water. Also they are tame dogs, not wild dogs, so they don’t necessarily have the aggressive nature needed if they get into a fight. The Taliban have used dogs and such for target practice before and in Islam dogs are seen as unworthy so with their beliefs they are hardly going to look out for them.

 

[emm]

Can anyone explain why there are almost no women in those airport scenes ? Have the been taken / hidden already ?

I think a lot of women are not out at all as they dont have hijabs etc so arent allowed out. it is stillso unfair though, objectively whoever you are women will be the worst affected by the Taliban

 

[openbook1]

There is no way the Taliban is not going to be brutal. Clarissa Ward was talking to them yesterday in Kabul and they were chanting "death to America" and saying that "jidhad will rule the world." They are a bunch of brainwashed lunatics.

 

[NeverEnough]

Can anyone explain why there are almost no women in those airport scenes ? Have the been taken / hidden already ?

Because in a country like Afghanistan women face the choice of repression (the just fallen government) or extreme repression (the Taliban). It’s not the system of government at fault, it’s the interpretation of a religion which does not recognise women as the equals of men.

In short the Afghan women are where they have always been, strictly controlled at home, covered from head to toe, and under the “care” of their male relatives.

 

[Tatooine_legend1]

Why anyone would want to go into the army and serve for the bunch of spineless leaders there currently are around. There used to be a time when the king would lead his men into war, but these days the leaders have never done an ounce of serious military service.

 

[Yel]

exactly, why do we never seem to learn our lessons?

Arrogance and superiority? Of which Joe Biden is still oozing with.

 

[Warpaint]

They could have done with arming and training women, they have the most to lose.

Yep they should take a page of out the Kurdish women's book - they take no shit. A few British women went out to fight against ISIS with them.

 

[freda19]

Biden will do precisely nothing. That is the reason he was elected.

He has to wait till the boss woman returns from asia/vietnam/wherever before any coherent words are permitted from his mouth.
I can't help but wonder if his boss lady and her cohorts are letting him make a fool of himself so that it becomes evident he needs tucked away somewhere safe so she can take the reins. As was the plan all along if we're being honest. God Bless America.
I usually take the piss out of sparkles markle with these face-swaps ... but after recent events I'll make an exception.

 

[Underthetabletop]

Reading her stuff, there was a brilliant article from her in the New Statesman and she mentions Qutar, so I wonder if she has some protection there

Lyse Doucet’s Kabul notebook: A dystopian airfield, and the Afghans leaving everything behind

As thousands depart with their life in a piece of hand luggage, Afghanistan feels like a nation emptying of some of its best and brightest.

www.newstatesman.com

I’m just glad there is someone there because if the Afghan media is already being ‘monitored’ then we need some independent insight from there.
For all we have spoken of bravery on this thread in different forms, she’s got the biggest kahunas I have known from anyone and all to tell us what’s happening and because she knows there are people’s stories there that need to be told

 

[Rosie878]

I don't think people are that sympathetic really, people tend to be more disgusted really about British born people really struggling and not getting the access to houses etc that a lot of immigrants appear get straight away. I know someone who has worked with The Syrian refugees as part of their resettlement programme and they don't think its right at all.
I personally do think we need to help immigrants but that we also need to help our own people as well. Its not right that there's a severe housing shortage in this country and that U.K born people often have to wait 10 years plus for a council house or are told to piss off. This is the Governments fault, not the refugees.

If in the past refugees were spread more equally across the country there would be much greater acceptance and support. At the moment the vast majority are sent to deprived areas of the north where resources are scarce already. When the people in these communities get understandably pissed off they are accused of racism by nimbys.

 

[emm]

The Taliban appear to be controlling all access points to Kabul airport now

it is just terrifying , I bet they stop letting people who have cooperated with the west out. I have so much respect for the british diplomat who has stayed to help them with visas

 

[Miss Havisham]

Whether people agree or not, I feel bad for Biden. The way this whole ordeal has been orchestrated is certainly not good at all. However, I do agree on the decision to remove the pull the troops out. It has been twenty years and the fact that cities fell so quickly shows another 10 or 15 years wouldn't have changed a thing because the country is riddled with corruption (the president just took the money and fled the country to protect himself).

It wont change. The past 20 years have kept the taliban out of controlling a huge country, and now they have control there will be consequences for most of us.
He has been in office for a matter of months and pulls this stunt. He has made no efforts to negotiate deals with other countries on keeping the Taliban out of Afghanistan - he just pulled the plug.
He is getting off very lightly in the general media. Imagine if Trump had done this?

 

[Lanie]

Troops didn't fully leave Germany until last year. So 20 years is nothing. You can see it's not enough time. Wait and see what happens now. it's not going to be pretty and IMO it's deliberate, they know what is now going to happen. Another war on terror.

Another world war.

I can see it. The taliban will rally the other Islamic groups and rise against the west. Hopefully china and Russia will stay on our side.

I feel so deflated off late.

 

[thegirlscout]

I sadly think the story has just begun with all of this now.

85 billions dollars of US firepower is now in Afghanistan. Admittedly a lot of it unusable, but it doesn’t make me sleep easier at night.

This is an interesting info graphic about what’s been left.

 

[IngressUK]

I hear this argument so often from every second Bob and Steve dawwwn da pub.

Religion has never caused war, land has never caused wars, resources have never caused wars. It's human ego that causes war.

There is no evidence that any apparently religion-based wars were actually about religion and not about resources or land or something else.

The world would be a degenerate place without spiritual values. The British Empire and European Enlightenment were founded on a solid bed of Christianity. Our legal systems, great works of art and architecture, our moral civilisation, grew from a religious soil.

May I suggest you Google 'Religious Wars', or 'Wars about religion', before automatically dismissing a valid point of view.

You will see the list of religious wars over time is fairly long.

 

[Sunflower91]

I think the British support system is so completely unstable that it creates a fissure of those pro-refugee and against-refugee. And it’s not anyone’s fault other than the government. There’s so many people below the poverty line, homeless or needing help in other ways and they just don’t get the suppport they need and are the ones that suffer when benefits are cut. Then on the other hand you have those playing the system who are perfectly able to work and provide for themselves but don’t because they receive more in benefits than earning a wage and having to pay for childcare. Unfortunately whether we take on refugees or not, that problem isn’t going to be solved.

But what I’d like to think, even if it’s naive to do so, is that there are plenty of refugees out there who can or will be able to do something positive in whichever society they move to. But that can only happen if they have support and acceptance. Rejected and unsupported people are more likely to not integrate, turn to crime and are more likely to be radicalised. And I don’t just mean financial support- having someone there to guide them and be a friendly face. I’d like to think that if ever I was in a situation where the country was war torn/ unsafe, someone would see that potential to do good in me.

Besides, what are we going to do if/when aliens visit earth. Be like “sorry mr alien, you’re an illegal so you can’t come here- go back to your spaceship” it just seems silly in a way that every country has a boundary for entry but we all live on the same planet.

 

[MarquisDeSade]

I’m sorry to sound so ignorant but I really don’t understand how the Taliban have armed themselves with (as has been reported by PA) Russian and US made weapons and helicopters. How are they getting them? Who’s bankrolling them?

I know there’s a complex history in Afghanistan but I’m keen to read credible long reads if anyone knows any. I can’t get my head around the pace with which this has all happened. Surely the intelligence agencies would have known this was coming? If not, its a depressing indictment of how badly they understand the Taliban and how they operate.

As far as i know, they scavenged a lot of Soviet weaponry back in the 70's/80's. The Americans armed the mujahideen with rifles, rpgs, mortars etc too, along with training them.

Nowadays they make a lot of money through trading opium/heroin, along with having control of a few lithium mines. They probably buy a lot of old Soviet stockpiles from various weapons dealers, they most likely buy American manufactured weapons off these weapons dealers too.

And then of course, they can just raid military compounds and storehouses for weapons the Americans supplied the Afghan army. The Taliban found a few large American weapon caches the other day, because Americans are legitimately stupid.