Afghanistan

[Notworthy]

I hear this argument so often from every second Bob and Steve dawwwn da pub.

Religion has never caused war, land has never caused wars, resources have never caused wars. It's human ego that causes war.

There is no evidence that any apparently religion-based wars were actually about religion and not about resources or land or something else.

The world would be a degenerate place without spiritual values. The British Empire and European Enlightenment were founded on a solid bed of Christianity. Our legal systems, great works of art and architecture, our moral civilisation, grew from a religious soil.

Err religion has always been about power and control, just because you view it as benign now doesn't mean it's roots aren't based control.

 

[User name taken]

These women are so brave!

Video shows a group of Afghan women protesting for their rights in Kabul as armed men stand nearby

The demonstration included a small group of Afghan women protesting for their rights days after the Taliban assumed power in Kabul.

www.businessinsider.com

 

[thegirlscout]

If you are coming from a country where it is unsafe for you as a female to just be a female, you are going to stay where you are until it is safe for you to leave.

Most people I know do not have a problem with whether its a male or female trying to get to safety.

I cannot understand this stance that because its men trying to be safe, its a problem. Surely its just a person trying to be safe?

I don’t get why men aren’t helping their women to escape? The women are going to suffer the most under the Taliban rule or any draconian government. It seems wrong to leave your female family members behind to face poverty, rape or death so you can have a new life.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

I’ve seen on Twitter that there were other charter flights. Some where charging the earth to get on

Pen had a fundraiser - I contributed - it was not one rich benefactor.

So then IF Pen's team can order a charter aircraft for their evacuation how come the various govts could not manage it then?? Pen had I believe 170 spare seats on his flight which he gave to the authorities to fill will those also waiting to get out - his animals were in the hold where they would always travel so not using the seats in the cabin, however this entire issue was created because Pen would not leave his loyal staff behind to face uncertain futures, he was especially concerned because in these families there were young teenage girls whom would certainly become fodder for the 'Jihadi Bride" outrage so he was held back twice over niggling in the visa applications for his people. If he didn't care he would have just abandoned them all to save his own skin wouldn't he?

Have you also seen the team of US Veterans operating undercover out there taking vulnerable women & children through the fences and on to rescue? They are doing this without the "permission" of Biden or anybody else - they are doing it because they care enough to risk their own lives in doing so; They are Heroes

 

[Yel]

Watching some of his old gaffs and this says it pretty well

 

[Notgonnalie]

I gave you the right term to Google because you didn't seem aware of the terrible way refugees are treated by countries you were praising

I do know about refugee camps though. They are intended as temporary. Not a permanent solution. However the point I was making was the U.K. take on a very small percentage of refugees when compared with many other countries who also support refugees, whether someone agrees with how they’re supported is another matter but the opinions posted here where untrue, when they said “There are over 100 countries in the world that could also help, we always are helping out.” And “ It's always the UK who has to help.” . When in fact the U.K. aren’t the only country helping. Every country should be helping innocent babies women and men fleeing from a war zone, what is wrong with humanity. We look at the images of mothers handing their babies the soldiers in an attempt to get them to a safer country, how desperate would a mother be to hand over her baby to people she doesn’t even know? Because she is certain that her baby has no life in Afghan. That’s why. Have some compassion. You are incredibly lucky that you are born in a country where healthcare and human rights is the norm. These people aren’t so lucky.

 

[lilacbutterfly]

Why don't the surrounding countries help them out?

We are, a lot of Afghan refugees have crossed into my country through Iran in recent weeks. But the security issue is causing problems. Plus a lot of the countries surrounding are not strong enough for the security threat. Awful situation and I’m afraid we’re going to see another migrant crisis

 

[kev1974]

Frankly after all the shit Pen has endured who can be surprised that he lost it finally? Even the most calm person would have been driven insane by all the paperwork insisted upon to get people OUT of there

Do you just want random Taliban and Isis-K people just flown straight in to Brize Norton then? Of course there's paperwork checks! And it has to be for everyone, even the ones that have a twitter army.

Anyway, stepping away from Paul Farthing for a second. These pictures of bars in the US setting out 13 pints for their fallen soldiers made me sad.

 

[Rosie878]

I think Rory Stewart has a good explanation for the ‘why haven’t they fought back against the taliban’ question:

Until I watched that, I also wondered why the defence crumbled so quickly.

 

[Tatooine_legend1]

Someone made a good point on the radio last night. A female caller said it's all well and good us trying to implement our ideals on Afghanistan, but this country didn't give women the vote until almost 100 years ago. Rape was only made illegal in 1968 in Britain. Can we really sit on the high horse in this situation?

 

[mcfeez]

Yes Trump negotiated the “peace”. But the shitshow of the withdrawal is a Biden/Harris production. He is the one in charge, not Trump. He is the here where the buck stops.

I'm confident Trump would have done the exact same as Biden - just pulled out troops with little plan for after. I'm just shocked that this is the one Trump decision Biden decided not to overrturn or at least rethink. It's unbelievable. His response has actually been diabolical.

 

[WritersBlock]

I’m sorry to sound so ignorant but I really don’t understand how the Taliban have armed themselves with (as has been reported by PA) Russian and US made weapons and helicopters. How are they getting them? Who’s bankrolling them?

I know there’s a complex history in Afghanistan but I’m keen to read credible long reads if anyone knows any. I can’t get my head around the pace with which this has all happened. Surely the intelligence agencies would have known this was coming? If not, its a depressing indictment of how badly they understand the Taliban and how they operate.

 

[NeverEnough]

You know Trump was the one to pull out right?

Yes Trump negotiated the “peace”. But the shitshow of the withdrawal is a Biden/Harris production. He is the one in charge, not Trump. He is the here where the buck stops.

 

[bubbadabut]

That phone call from pen is very cringy. He really had no clue how complex the biggest withdrawal of the west following defeat in decades has been.

I feel like those on twitter have egged him on with their cheap shot arguments. It really would have looked terrible if he was able to get out his friends when there was 1000+ people left in there who may be fearing for their lives.

Look like his book is now selling loads on Amazon (in the top 200).

The mail haven't let any comments go live, before the most liked were all calling him a hero.

He's got definite shades of God Complex going on, which will most likely be fuelled further by fawning interviews with Phil & Holly, etc in the coming days. He reminds me of Captain Tom's daughter.

 

[Mrs loizou]

It’s also young men. The same with the boats across the channel. Young men the majority of the time. I don’t think people would have such an issue if it was women and children or the elderly coming for safety.

If you are coming from a country where it is unsafe for you as a female to just be a female, you are going to stay where you are until it is safe for you to leave.

Most people I know do not have a problem with whether its a male or female trying to get to safety.

I cannot understand this stance that because its men trying to be safe, its a problem. Surely its just a person trying to be safe?

 

[Raininvain]

He should have double checked the documentation that was needed for his staff. That was his responsibility toward them, to ensure their safe exit. They relied on him, big chief motormouth, to guide them and direct them so that all the 'i' s were dotted and 'T's crossed. He neglected them to focus on the animals, simple as that. Not the officials fault, his. He knew this was coming and dropped the ball.

You can bet he had documentation for the animals, all the boxes ticked nicely and paperwork perfect or they'd never have passed muster for a flight. Shame on him not doing the same for the humans who depended on him.

They changed the documentation two hours before they all got through the compounds/ fences etc. I think he did the best he could under very difficult circumstances. I also don't think he can be compared to Captain Toms daughter really..
The animals are now in quarantine here in the U.K and are all O.K. and in good condition. I doubt very much they will be riddled with diseases when there were loads of vets attending to them. They will all have had their vaccinations etc. I wish them all well, at least he has stood up for what he believed in and why should all those animals be PTS.? Non of this was their fault.
I wonder who paid for the plane, someone just paid outright. Maybe Ricky Gervais or Deborah Mears?

 

[greenvelvet]

If this has proven anything, it’s that people escaping truly dangerous situations don’t come to the UK by the book. How can you get a government-certified flight when the government itself has fled from a radical terrorist group? Would you flee the country by your own means or cling to the hangar of an overcrowded plane?

Especially in countries where there is continuous unrest, some people can never obtain proper ID and papers. I have had my driver’s licence turned down at American airports as proof of ID - they only want passports. The main form of official Afghan ID currently can only be obtained at age 18 and with the production of the old Afghan ID papers - if you don’t have these, your family have to come to testify in your favour at the application. How many people have turned 18 in the last few weeks, how many will turn 18 in a few days? these people will have not had a chance to obtain ID, and there will be over a million of them alone. People will be losing their IDs amid the chaos.

It will be much easier for men to flee so yes there will be more male refugees. It’s not indicative of heartlessness - many mothers would say to their sons to leave them behind if they had to.

I wish people would put themselves in the refugees’ shoes, just think about what you would do at every stage in their position.

 

[Warpaint]

Biden is a terrible speaker. Was putting me to sleep so just switched off.

On another note saw that a resistance group has started up and is actively ambushing the Taliban (killed 300). So at least there's some sort of fight back going on.

 

[Notgonnalie]

Can anyone explain why there are almost no women in those airport scenes ? Have the been taken / hidden already ?

It’s terribly sad Afghan women don’t have the freedom to go and run like the men do. Some have managed to escape if you zoom in on these photos you can see there are quite a few women and children on the plane it looks male dominated but if you zoom in and look closely you can make out women and baby’s and children. There’s also a picture of a woman (in blue head scarf) holding her baby while these men try and help her toddler to try and escape also. It’s so horrific and unthinkable what could happen to all of these people

 

[xxAprilxx]

But why just pen and his team? It’s not a dig, I’m just genuinely curious as to why him and his people who havent got documents but people aren’t demanding Wallace to go and raging about the other British nationals still stuck outside the airport.

I'm a huge animal lover but I agree with this. I've had to stop looking at Twitter as everyone seems to be only going on about him and the dogs. What about all of the other men, women and children!? I really do hope that he gets out because if he doesn't, all of the headline will be about him.