constance marten and mark gordon : Most liked Posts

Victoria was born into a society that protects babies, offers them medical care and safeguards them against parents, who may really love and want their babies, but are unable to care for them. CM and MG went to great lengths so Victoria couldn't have this and she paid the price, and while other babies get a childhood ,she was left on her own decomposing in a shopping bag.

I have Pulp’s Common People running through my head while reading this thread now…

I'm way behind so apologies if this has been said but for me, I am seeing maternal instinct. Just the wrong instinct. Actually, parental instinct as it applies to both of them.
They feel that they were protecting their child from social services and removal and they are correct, all children should be with their birth families.
But they were not protecting her, they endangered her and ended her life. If Victoria was removed at birth the irony is that she would still be alive and CM and MG would probably be having some sort of contact with her.
They will never see that they are the problem. They are the unsafe people. And that, imo, at the root cause is nothing more the selfishness. Too selfish to put their child first as their need was greater.

if they had baby Victoria in normal circumstances [ living in a house] does Anyone think that they would have managed to raise her on their own?
I know we don’t know reasons other children were taken off her, but what we have seen from her I really don’t think she would have been capable of looking after a child longtime. It’s easy to say they loved her but actually caring for her daily long term I couldnt see them managing.
They have Money but yet couldn’t seem to buy everything to keep her warm and comfortable, and looking at that video the way she put her into pram was awful. Not sure about him but everything he said in interviews he referred to baby as hers.
They couldn’t keep the holiday let tidy for a few nights and were they not evicted previously so what kind of home life would they have provided for her. Everything is always someone else fault it seems.

Will SS pay for a new carpet for my homebirth? I want my cat to be present so he can register it

rosieflowers said:

I don't know how it works but wondered if they have maybe charged them with manslaughter to extend the time they are allowed to keep them in custody? I also think sadly they must have some evidence pointing them in that direction. I just find it unfathomable that the baby is alive and they are no commenting their interviews. Sadly the baby has IMO probably passed and it honestly is the stuff of nightmares what the baby's short time on earth must have been like. Cold, stressed, hungry, ill and in pain probably.

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Unforgiveable not to take the baby for medical care. And even being arrested she's only concerned about her man.

If I'm really honest, I actually believe that they didn't truly love Baby Victoria or their previous children.

Maybe I'm being harsh, but no loving parent would do what they did to their children. It's absolutely neglect. They kept their children outdoors in tents, in freezing cold weather in Baby Victoria's case, in dirty conditions (bottles of urine and rubbish), they even left one in hospital. It's not like they were in dire straights trying to get by or going through rough times.

They made all these choices. And from what the prosecution have detailed so far, they had preplanned how to ensure Baby Victoria would never be known or found. It was only chance that the placenta was found, which I think was because they panicked at the fire.

I'm so fucking angry after seeing the CCTV footage. The two of them all bundled up, and then tiny Victoria with just a babygrow...it really puts it into stark comparison. That buggy would have been freezing too - her back is just against a thin material, no warmth at all even if they did dump a sleeping bag on top of her. Argos sells clothes - why could they not have at least bought her some warm clothing when buying the buggy? This pair are fucking subhuman and deserve to rot.

17th of June, what the actual claw clip

The Paediatrician and The Plumber

And other short stories.

I just can’t fathom why they put rubbish on top of her in the bag. I can maybe understand the reason for the soil.. but empty cans etc.. awful.

Tangent Tiger said:

Do you source your own food as well?

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We have a Polytunnel and allotment so grow a lot of food. We still have some potatoes and leeks left but most of our food is sourced from Morrisons at the moment!

I don’t know why it matters how she died exactly. She died because they ran away from the authorities and because they refused to provide her with a safe living environment. They were not fit to parent that baby so they hid her. And that caused the baby to die.

GrunkaLunka said:

She doesn't come across as mentally unwell to me, just really, very thick, selfish and a horrible person. ....Sometimes the answer is simple, she is just a fucking horrible cunt.

I know that if Conspiracy Marten was to read this, she would no doubt tell me to wake up, open my eyes and stop being a sheep. As a typical thicko of her ilk, when asked a question she is unwilling to answer, she'll just ramble on about some nonsensical shit and deflect. It is utterly pathetic.

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Yep, 100% agree with all the above.

It's quite typical of a certain type of criminal mentality IMO. All of it. Just a shit immature personality, unable to accept responsibility for their own choices, their crimes, and invoking all manner of childish, stupid, eye-rolling delusional crap to deflect and distract from their own choices, and utterly AGHAST that anyone could possibly think they are a criminal responsible for what they did, and for choosing to do what they did when other options existed.

I have been watching the sentencing of a US-based criminal, one Kristel Candelario who also managed to neglect and kill her own 18 month old child in the most vile of methods - leaving her alone in a playpen sans food or water, to die in her own shit of starvation/thirst while Kristel went on holibobs to Puerto Rico for ten whole days, acting dead surprised and making a typically histrionic call to 911 when she finds the messed up shit-smeared emaciated corpse. How was she to know kids can't go ten days without food or water (note, this bitch worked in a school and had another kid who went on holiday with her mother earlier). The video of the court proceedings shows several excepts from her police interviews and my god, the attitude and the quotes from her remind me so much of Excellent Mother Constance Marten. The eye rolling excuses, the arrogant dismissive attitude, the complete 180 from the original 'I am distraught with grief' 911 call, the 'I didn't really do anything wrong some people kill their kids with guns/bats, I just had an accident' bullshit where she tries to rationalise her criminality and reduce it to a mere happenstance ... and then the revelation that she'd pulled similar shit before, leaving her kid with a local babysitter she'd booked for twp days, then not returning for six weeks. There's always a history with people who commit serious crime, a gradual escalation, and we see it with Constance and Kristel and no doubt many others.

Then we have her defence, who clearly is revulsed by the bitch, trying his best to find some mitigation for his client and all her can come up with was the good old mental illness card. Depression blah blah. Nothing that could ever meet the standard of lack of criminal responsibility. I expect it's much the same with old Toots. Whatever she has or hasn't got in terms of MH, there's nothing that can excuse dragging her baby around the country in the cold and killing her through neglect. She hd other choices, she just didn't feel like choosing them because Constance's big feels and wants come first. It was her own selfish choice that killed her kid.

Haveyouanywool said:

There’s co-sleeping and there’s co-sleeping.
If you’re off your face on drink or drugs while co-sleeping that’s an obvious aggravating factor. Likewise if you’re in a tent at -4.3 degrees.
I’m not really buying her story, especially as MG has said they were thinking of handing the baby in the day before they say she died.

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I think both of them sound like they’re completely bullshitting to be honest. Umm arrrr you’ll have to ask him ummm he might tell you something different…some of the way she describes things is just totally not how a grieving person would imo. Calling her “it”, describing pouring petrol on her as a cremation one minute and calling it hiding the evidence the next. I don’t see love anywhere.

They had obviously discussed and agreed to not disclose anything, again not really the behaviour of innocent people. “Be good” but she broke the pact didn’t she once the body was found because she was scared Daddy Dickhead would get the blame. I do find it interesting where Cuntstance’s word is taken as gospel (such as her parents investigating her) but we hear her lie so often- baby was so well provided for in her flimsy baby grow lobbed in an inappropriate buggy etc etc. She’s not truthful and that should speak volumes.

Baby was zipped up in that coat because she had no hat as we know. She would have been absolutely freezing even in a mild winter. I read today about a man that died outside in October, hypothermia and his organs just shut down. She was heard screaming on many occasions. Several strangers had more concern for that baby than her own parents. They watched her be uncomfortable, upset, cold and did nothing. I still think it was more important to them to be together and not get caught than whether their baby died or not.

I haven’t caught up yet.

I am honestly so upset that it’s come to this. They will have another baby. And another. And another.

They won’t engage with any support offered.

The cycle will continue.


I don’t blame the jury at all. They have heard details about all sorts of things and if they couldn’t reach a verdict, then it maybe isn’t as black and white as it appears from the outside.

We here have also had the absolutely invaluable space to discuss, disagree, listen to others’ thoughts and opinions, change our minds, change them back again. And to make assumptions on what we didn’t know.

I hope they are given sentences for concealment of birth and perverting the course of justice, because that is what the judge said wasn’t in question. HOWEVER - surely it still has to be formally decided by the jury? If they didn’t agree on secretly disposing of the body (or similar wording) then they couldn’t have found guilty on perverting the course of justice, could they?

It may also be kept under reporting restrictions in case they do go for a retrial, because guilty verdicts could influence a new jury.

It’s so hard. I have felt all along that the body was kept because, when it came to it, they couldn’t go through with whatever plans they had, but the fact of not admitting to where she was absolutely also shows (IMO) that at that point they concealed her body to avoid charges.

neroli said:

I personally don't think they will ever feel in any way responsible for the death of their 5th child.

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I wholeheartedly agree. My husband died in an accident at home and I replay that day over and find ways I could have changed the outcome. I feel guilt and I think that I always will. I know that when in court and on the stand, they (Clawclip connie) will have been advised not to admit guilt etc, but I think its only natural to blame yourself. Looking back at the Police interactions, the way Victoria was hidden and particular how she was found is very telling.......most people would be on their knees, blaming themselves but these two are so far beyond that. I find the arrogance astonishing. The absolute nerve of the pair of them.

Rippedjeanmaybe said:

It’s unlikely they’d keep the four together for the sake of keeping them together if they thought they could be adopted as single children.

Mixed race children are harder to adopt unfortunately. There’s a shortage of adopters from that background and usually nowadays children are adopted within race.

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A colleague I work with has adopted and the parent has since had more children that have been immediately taken into care.

She adopted the first two children, the next one was adopted by a family member of the birth mother, the next two adopted by another couple and another baby adopted by another couple.

My work colleague was called and asked if they would consider adopting some of the younger children, but they declined. So they can't always make sure siblings remain together and it's much harder if there is more than two children.

It's so incredibly sad for all those little children. I just hope that wherever they are, they are being surrounded by love and comfort and that they have all he support they need when and if they learn about their birth parents and what has happened.

Just to add, her saying 'Jesus survived in a barn didn't he?'

Maybe yes, maybe no.

But what's her point - because her baby DIDN'T survive.

Really struggling to follow since seeing the footage of them in the kebab shop. It's just made me so sad seeing a tiny, innocent baby manhandled like that. My heart breaks for poor baby Victoria. When I think back to when my babies were newborns, they were summer babies, and we spent the first few weeks snuggled up at home, baby in a vest, sleepsuit and blankets. Being so worried I would hurt them when dressing them so being super gentle getting their little arms and legs in the right place.

Unrelated to this case but there are quite a few TikToks going around about a mother with her little boy in Walmart in America. Child wearing only a nappy in sub-zero temperatures. His teeth were chattering, he was so cold and a kind lady bought him some clothes and dressed him in the trolley because his mother didn't care. She had the police called on her and was arrested for neglect. Seeing him so cold and then thinking of tiny newborn Victoria also being carried around in the freezing cold in just a nappy... Well I just struggle to comprehend these absolute scumbags.

I pray they are locked up and she cannot procreate again.