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Merpedy

VIP Member
It is criminal, really. What gets me is - I have a cousin in Brazil. She can literally go on Amazon.br and order the same medication that I have to pay £25 for a prescription for. She can walk into a pet store and buy antibiotics and painkillers too. No one there abuses the system. There is a major street dog/cat problem which is utterly heartbreaking, but the fact they can access medication so freely and so cheaply is just bizarre to me considering how tightly it's controlled here.
You can often find sites that sell meds here but require a prescription. Usually those sites are cheaper than what my vet charges too. Even if you calculate it by minutes of vet time, as one poster here seemed to try and do, that’s not great. Chances are to even get a prescription you’ve already paid for the consultation with a vet - possibly several even.
 
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Snippysnips

VIP Member
I am well aware that costs are rising an that things can get difficult out the blue, what I mean is that if money is a struggle at the beginning then really you shouldn't be agreeing to take on the responsibility of a pet, at the end of a day whether we like it or not animals are still classed as a luxury an unfortunately there is too many out there that take them on without knowing just how expensive they can become, an am not talking about being in a position where once it was fine an then it's become a struggle, am talking about the spontaneous buyers that are in no fit position to afford a pet never mind be able to cover vet fees, I have known people to get rabbits then not bother to ever get them vaccinated because of costs which isn't fair to the rabbit, or people that get a dog then dont bother to keep up with health checks or vaccines, there are charities out there to help but most of them struggle because they are paying out for people who were never going to be able to pay in the first place for a pet an the people who once afforded the pet an now have fallen out the blue on hard times are being left because the charities cant help due to limited finances
 
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ranchdistressing

Well-known member
Vets are a business, I’m not naive enough to think that partners don’t get some kind of bonus from profit but being in a healthy profit does mean that practices themselves can benefit - eg better equipment, more staff. But the vet sector isn’t the most morally grey in terms of making profit - you should look into how charities operate and the % money that actually goes to causes. Or how supermarkets advertised cost savings during a cost of living crisis. The business side of things is going to want to stay in profit and is going to seem cold and detached.
I completely disagree! Supermarkets and charities aren't directly profiting off pain and suffering. When it comes to literal life, death and/or pain, profit shouldn't be allowed. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I was raking in profits off the back of sick animals and their owners. As it stands it appears that being a vet is a license to print money, as the government have now discovered and are investigating.

vets themselves do care about what happens to animals but it’s hardily their fault if an owner is uninsured and/or cant afford the going rate for treatment.
Where did I/anyone here say it's the vets fault? If they weren't charging absolutely obscene fees, insurance would be more affordable and less people would be left to make hard choices for their pets. And it doesn't matter how your slice it, or justify it, or blame it on wholesale or staffing costs, the fees are obscene.

And this is very much a UK problem, as people in Europe seem to be getting the same drugs/treatment at less than half the cost we all seem to be paying. Yet they've still got the same amount of overheads to cover.


What are they going to do? Offer to pay the costs themselves? Your average vet has about as much control over prices as we do and have to use reputable/ industry mandated suppliers. They can’t just pop on a website and buy a 25p drug and think “ah it’ll do”.
Again, no one has said that is even a possibility, but there's no way buying from a wholesaler workers out more expensive than the cost direct to consumer. It doesn't (or at least shouldn't) work like that.


Wow you're really mad
Not at all, I just know bullshit when I smell it. I also know "we can't get it as cheap as you" is an age old pile of bollocks that's spouted by people as a justification for what their charging, when 9 times out of 10 it's complete crap! I know, because I've been in/around similar sectors that love to say that to protect their profits.

I can access the wholesaler prices because I have the password for their website saved in my Google drive. I cannot access my practice management system from home.
Well, don't forget to come back once you've compared the wholesale prices to the client cost.
Can't wait to see how you justify charging 5+ times the wholesale price....or are we then going to have you listing off the cost of the practice's energy bills and what not?

But how can you possibly know that no savings have been passed onto you. You absolutely cannot.
And you absolutely cannot say it has. People love to act like they're doing you a favour by "passing savings on", so even if it wasn't possible to work out, I'm sure someone at the practice would spout that soundbite the second the costs were questioned.

All I was interested it was which drug it was, since you were adamant that 25p becomes £7. As I've said, I'm just genuinely interested. I'll take a look at this one as well. For some reason I thought you were talking about human drugs.
And it does, as I've repeatedly demonstrated throughout the thread.

And why would I be speaking about human drugs on a thread about pet medication?

Maybe we should just give out medications for the same price we buy them for.
As I've said, repeatedly, I have no issue with vets covering legitimate overheads in costs/fees, but again - putting utterly extortionate markups on medication and calling it "overheads" is profiteering. And the prices charged are absolutely extortionate and cannot simply be put down to running costs. It does not add up.

And frankly, as far as I'm concerned, anyone making any profit off the suffering of an animal (or human) should be absolutely ashamed of themselves.
 
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Former_Antelopee

VIP Member
It’s no wonder that a lot are rescuing from abroad considering it’s easier than rescuing from this country. I don’t really agree with it but I do see why people do it
 
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Swarley123

Active member
VetsNow are insanely overpriced. We had an out of hours emergency with our dog about 7 years ago and were signposted to a locally run animal a&e type practice, the consulation cost was obviously more than a normal appointment but the care was incredible and I didn't feel completely ripped off at the end of it. Last year we had another and were told by that same practice that they now can't see us as VetsNow have the contract for our normal practice so we had no choice but to go to them instead. Not only were the fees for parts of it ridiculous (£40 on top of the £200 injection to administer it) but they sneaked on a charity donation too probably knowing full well that at 2am, stressed out and shattered we wouldn't notice or care enough to contest it.
 
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Saddlesoap

VIP Member
Does anyone have any experience of vets recommending optional extras for an operation? My whippet is needing two lumps removing and the vet has sent me the invoice saying “I have included having intravenous fluids and pre-op blood sample due to his age. These are not compulsory but strongly recommended given his age.” Has anyone any experience of this? Is this necessary or are they just trying to make a bit of extra money?
How old is he? Generally I would recommend my patients get bloods done if they are 8 years or older because organ function deteriorates with age and we don't want the liver and kidneys compromised if dealing with anaesthetic agents and other drugs.

It's tricky though because younger animals aren't immune to problems. I have had owners of younger animals opt for bloods and it flag problems that warrant further investigations. Not commonly though.

Nearly all our patients get fluids. I can't remember off the top of my head, but I think it's only an additional £10. Fluids help to prevent hypotension (low blood pressure). Low blood pressure for extended periods can cause organ damage.
 
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Snippysnips

VIP Member
Is it possible to find out how much the big corporations pay the shareholders? I watched a Joe Lycett documentary last night where he took on the water companies that were paying the shareholders vast amounts and not doing much needed repairs to sewage works and it made me think of this situation.

Vets and animals should not be for making already rich people even richer. I know there has to be some profit. Staff deserve a fair wage for the work they do, and then there are costs of premises, utilities, insurance etc but there needs to be a much greater amount of transparency. Obviously the government will do bugger all about it, but change needs to happen.
This

Our vets posted about why prices where going up an it mentioned shareholders, I honestly feel like vets hands are tied here an because you are seeing a vet it's easier to take it out on them as being the "bad guys" because that's who your point of contact is, but without shareholders a lot of the more private practises would suffer with funding, so vets are stuck in a loop, they need to keep shareholders happy by paying out an shareholders are only going to stay if they are happy
 
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Snippysnips

VIP Member
I do agree about the rehoming, it's ridiculous the hoops you need to jump through an it's sad that more an more animals are being left in shelters because people are being forced to go to breeders which aren't always legit because some breeders are disgusting an cruel

We wanted to re-home a dog an were told we could only have a elderly dog as since we hadn't had a dog then we weren't "experienced" enough to have a younger dog (my mum grew up all her life with dogs) an while now I do agree it's nice to re-home the elderly dogs at the time me an my brother were kids, we wanted to play an take them long walks an kick a ball etc something you can't do with a 14/15 year old, in the end we did manage to "re-home" a dog, his ad was in the pet shop an he had been abused an the new owners wanted to give him away as they couldn't deal with his behaviour due to his trama, he was 18m an we sadly lost him just before his 16th but the fact is, we managed, he was trained by myself as I was learning as I had wanted to be a animal handler, yes it was hard work with his behaviour (no fault of his which I understood) but we got there, an it just makes me angry at the amount of animals being left an missing out on incredible lives
 
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Former_Antelopee

VIP Member
And how much do behaviourists charge?
£60 an hour was one I was looking at, they came to your house to assess. I was going to go to one by the way, just to add that to the person you’re replying to who, just to show I don’t not believe in trying to help these animals.
But sometimes they are just too far gone and imo these rescues can help other animals that aren’t and may then end up in a worse position due to not being helped. I ended up not needing it I was just overreacting but I was happy to do it.
 

Snippysnips

VIP Member
I don't know if maybe mine is just different because it's private or maybe because it's just a rabbit an not a dog/cat but when he goes for his vaccines I just pay the vaccines, the consultation is in with it an he also gets a quick look over

I also didn't pay when he needed to go back after his operation since you got a free check up which actually turned out to be twice as he had developed an abscess so he was back once then they discovered it an I paid for his medication (got back from insurance) then they asked to see him a week later an again never paid (they said if it wasn't for the abscess then he wouldn't have been back in) they also gave me a ton of different sized syringes during his operation period that I never paid for as well, they knew from having him in he was a difficult bun so when I said the syringe was giving me problems they gave me a few to try

Again could be because he's a rabbit or maybe it's cause it's a private an not a franchise so they have slightly more freedom over what an when they will charge or not
 

Former_Antelopee

VIP Member
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, having had awful experiences with vets and their prices, but as I'm actually in the progress in hopefully rehoming a dog, we're traveling miles every time we can to see her with our dog, the behaviourist is actually great, she's the same as us, wants it work for all of us, the dogs background has been horrendous, but she needs a chance, your comment has really pissed me off, talking to the guys who care for these dogs, and hearing about their history , I'll tell behaviourist tomorrow your views.......
I said if it doesn’t work? I said try but some of these dogs are in rescues for years or in homes where they are locked away for safety I just don’t believe that’s a good life for a dog especially if nothing is helping them after trying treatment (medical or behavioural). If they can be helped and happily live I didn’t say anything about behaviourists or there work it just depends on the dog and how they cope and I believe sometimes it just doesn’t help just like some medical conditions cannot be
 

ranchdistressing

Well-known member
Could it be that the drugs are just simple a bit expensive because of who the supplier is that the vets need to use for legal reasons, an with all the regulations the supplier needs to go through they are marking it up a bit?
It's possible, but I cannot believe what goes for 25p a dose for us would be charged as £7 for a vet. (Just one example.) Maybe 50p or even £1 but not £7! As I said before, even with delivery costs (which are usually written off on a bulk buy) and fees for staff to process/shelve the products, there is still an extortionate markup on medication and that markup is going somewhere, and I doubt it's the staff's bank accounts.

I would expect vets buy direct from the manufacturer too, which should be significantly cheaper. I know my vet has a wealth of pads and pens with various drugs logos on them, having dealt in a similar field before I know those items usually come directly from the drug reps. Who always tend to offer decent savings or deals to get their products into circulation. I wouldn't expect it's much different in the veterinary sector.
 

no-no

VIP Member
This thread has just reminded me how I paid £32 for a bottle of Indorex last summer from Vets4Pets. They’re £11-15 but PAH were sold out and I didn’t want to wait for delivery. Turned out my dog didn’t even have fleas, I was bitten by something 🙃 Then I’ve had great service from Vets Now. Lot of valid arguments on both sides, on the whole I think an investigation is welcome, especially when it comes to big chains buying indies. It won’t impact pharma. I saved a lot when my old vet recommended an over the counter human med instead of paying extortionate prices for Pardale V.
 

Snippysnips

VIP Member
Yeah, great, in an idea world! (Just like my suggestion!) But guess what? People don't want care/befriending jobs, and hat's why there's an unprecedented crisis social care! Hourly and live-in carers are like hens teeth!

The sad reality is more people want to work with animals than they do people.

My suggestion wasn't "oh let's shove all the animals in shelters into the homes of old people", obviously they would need to be relatively well older people who just need some support, not those on deaths door or liable to pop their cloggs at a seconds notice. But unfortunately I neither have the time nor the energy to write a 30 point manifesto on my suggestion to cover every pro and every con, because it merely was - a suggestion.
You said people don't want care/befriending jobs but what makes that any different if the person has an animal? Even if the person was still going into the house they are still going to need to befriend the client, you can't expect to hire people that will literally go in an only see to the animal, the elderly especially if we are taking those that are getting animals because of loneliness are going to want human interaction as well, ok they won't be doing a carers job by cleaning or feeding the client but they are still going to need to befriend them an talk with them an spend a fair bit of time, possibly even cleaning things up like pet toys or cleaning bowls out etc

An you can't tell if a elderly person is going to remain well, same goes for any age, you can be perfectly fine one day an end up numerous hospital visits the next, my gran was perfectly well, was in her 60s then out the blue cancer took over an she had months left, had a uncle that took unwell at 42 an was dead 3 weeks later, so age really means nothing
 

Merpedy

VIP Member
There are so many ways to go about it if you are struggling as well or want a pet but know you aren't going to be able to pay costs long term, you can become a foster carer an take in animals until a forever home is found, you can do a home for home scheme in which you take animals (mostly dogs I believe) while owners are on holiday/in hospital, both of these the vet bills are covered for you, it's maybe depending on area/vets but we can pay monthly until the bill is covered, there are charity's out there to also help if you are struggling but again may be dependent on area
This seems to ignore that often these options are further restricted by the requirements on people. As briefly discussed here already, rescues are a great example because they can require that those looking to adopt need to have a garden that meets their standards and whatever else that they’ve thought up - some of it may be legitimate requirements tbf

Pet ownership is increasingly becoming a luxury for many which isn’t a necessarily good thing
 

WhippetGood

Well-known member
Does anyone have any experience of vets recommending optional extras for an operation? My whippet is needing two lumps removing and the vet has sent me the invoice saying “I have included having intravenous fluids and pre-op blood sample due to his age. These are not compulsory but strongly recommended given his age.” Has anyone any experience of this? Is this necessary or are they just trying to make a bit of extra money?
 

Saddlesoap

VIP Member
What would the costs then be for a customer of yours?

All good throwing wholesale prices around - and actually the markup isn’t that bad - but it doesn’t necessarily show the markups for customers too

I don’t mind paying for consultations, but to pay for extra 10 minutes (generous btw) for someone to click some buttons and push print is a bit of a laugh. My vets normally takes a min to do that at best
I'm not at work right now, so can't check.
My point regarding the wholesaler prices was to demonstrate that online pharmacies can sell them cheaper than we can buy them for.
 

ranchdistressing

Well-known member
Well if we're going down that route, why not just skip the pet thing entirely and pay people to interact with the elderly? If it's to cure loneliness.

I guess pets are living, feeling creatures. It's not good for them to bounce from home to home when the elderly person dies and it would really be, like you say, huge logistics nightmare but also not ethical in my view. Just skip the whole operation involving pets and pay for live in carers
Yeah, great, in an idea world! (Just like my suggestion!) But guess what? People don't want care/befriending jobs, and hat's why there's an unprecedented crisis social care! Hourly and live-in carers are like hens teeth!

The sad reality is more people want to work with animals than they do people.

My suggestion wasn't "oh let's shove all the animals in shelters into the homes of old people", obviously they would need to be relatively well older people who just need some support, not those on deaths door or liable to pop their cloggs at a seconds notice. But unfortunately I neither have the time nor the energy to write a 30 point manifesto on my suggestion to cover every pro and every con, because it merely was - a suggestion.



Is it possible to find out how much the big corporations pay the shareholders? I watched a Joe Lycett documentary last night where he took on the water companies that were paying the shareholders vast amounts and not doing much needed repairs to sewage works and it made me think of this situation.
I'm sure this investigation will expose what the shareholders are making, at least I would hope that's something they'd look into.


Vets and animals should not be for making already rich people even richer. I know there has to be some profit. Staff deserve a fair wage for the work they do, and then there are costs of premises, utilities, insurance etc but there needs to be a much greater amount of transparency. Obviously the government will do bugger all about it, but change needs to happen.
Totally agree!

Profits are fine if they're reinvested, but the fact is most profits go into the back pockets of shareholders and no one else. Profits shouldn't be for funding champagne lifestyles, especially if those profits come from anyone's suffering - animal or human.

The failure to reinvest profits leads to independent practices selling out to people like Vets Now, who will give them a huge funding boost so they can buy new equipment to attract more clients, while essentially throwing those same clients to the wolves by forcing them into paying absolutely ridiculous fees for emergency care.



there is nothing worse than having a sick pet an finding it's going to cost hundreds or even thousands an so many insurance places find loopholes or aren't fully clear what is an what isn't covered, am grateful for my vets for printing questions for me as some of them I'd never have thought about checking out as it never crossed my mind, one of them being to make sure that my insurance would still cover him if he was referred to a specialist or if insurance only covered his registered vet practise, thankfully my insurance covers this but i can imagine the stress it would be if someone assumed it would be covered an it wasn't
The trouble is, even if you THINK it's covered, they can still deny the claim. And when the animal reaches a certain age things get excluded or you end up paying a percentage of a claim ON TOP of the monthly/annual insurance premiums.

My most recent pet insurance experience has been the underwriter getting changed, which led to the insurer being able to deny claims because the underwriter changed the terms. Didn't matter that it was mid-policy, or anything. They decided to change the rules and everyone who'd been paying in had to accept it or be left without any insurance at all. The whole industry is an absolute disgrace!
 

Snippysnips

VIP Member
Maybe because I've not had a bad experience with mine but I absolutely love my practice an all the staff in it, they have been wonderful with my "demonic" rabbit, I do feel sorry for them about the prices because people's frustration (at something many vets can't help) will be taken out at them, there is nothing worse than having a sick pet an finding it's going to cost hundreds or even thousands an so many insurance places find loopholes or aren't fully clear what is an what isn't covered, am grateful for my vets for printing questions for me as some of them I'd never have thought about checking out as it never crossed my mind, one of them being to make sure that my insurance would still cover him if he was referred to a specialist or if insurance only covered his registered vet practise, thankfully my insurance covers this but i can imagine the stress it would be if someone assumed it would be covered an it wasn't