I said if it doesn’t work? I said try but some of these dogs are in rescues for years or in homes where they are locked away for safety I just don’t believe that’s a good life for a dog especially if nothing is helping them after trying treatment (medical or behavioural). If they can be helped and happily live I didn’t say anything about behaviourists or there work it just depends on the dog and how they cope and I believe sometimes it just doesn’t help just like some medical conditions cannot be
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And how much do behaviourists charge?
£60 an hour was one I was looking at, they came to your house to assess. I was going to go to one by the way, just to add that to the person you’re replying to who, just to show I don’t not believe in trying to help these animals.
But sometimes they are just too far gone and imo these rescues can help other animals that aren’t and may then end up in a worse position due to not being helped. I ended up not needing it I was just overreacting but I was happy to do it.
Oh I can't be bothered with this tonight, we're trying to re-home a dog, I don't feel the need to explain myself to you anymore..,..
Honestly I couldn't ever see people being happy about paying taxes into a system to better help vets an as much as I love animals I can see the point where people would be mad at that, not everyone loves animals, there's more than enough out there that just can't be bothered with them/have no time for them so therefore don't own them, could you imagine those people who have no interest in animals paying a tax for people who do have animals so the vets get helped out?
I also think it depends on the insurance, when I was looking for one for my rabbit the vet actually printed off a list of questions I could phone them an ask to make sure absolutely everything was covered that could possible come up, they helped me out a ton an made sure that he was going to be covered for life with both any illness and or injury's, the only problem I ever had with my insurance was when he was getting castrated, the insurance thought it was a choice thing an at first refused me (which rightly so as choice for castration is not covered) but the vet spoke with them an insured them it was not choice but a medical matter an he needed it done otherwise he would get cancer, the insurance was fine after understanding an went ahead with paying them, I do understand that as he gets older it will go up as hes more prone to illness/injury but he is covered till the day he dies, as well as being covered for every illness/injury an also I have a boarding cost if am delayed coming home (i.e cancelled flight) an I also get money towards trying to find him if he goes missing (i.e flyers)
No idea, but she's the one who we've met everytime, we us both , our dog and the dog we're hoping to re-home, no charge, and have booked in for the next few weeks....
I didn’t say anything about you I said if a dog cannot be helped, I didn’t say don’t try as I said in that post you just replied to as well.
It’s good it can be helped but it they can’t always. So it’s good the dog your getting is getting help and hopefully it’ll be getting better or at least manageable but not all will. I was speaking in general not to your specific situation
We had to take one of our cats to Vets Now as our vets didn’t have out of hours care and they thought he’d be in overnight. We got him there and said he was unlikely to make it but spent two hours running loads of tests and then called us in to say he was about to pass. It didn’t even get to out of hours time. Total bill, £1500. Luckily the insurance paid out. Plus as it was during Covid we were only allowed 5 mins to say goodbye.
My vet seems to be unique in this situation as he often forgets to send us a bill 
I had to make the hard decision to have one of my rabbits PTS in early February and we just received our bill this week. £130 for euthanasia, cremation and the ashes returned in a scatter tube. I thought that was a pretty reasonable price, particularly as the euthanasia was out of hours.
He also saw the same rabbit previously out of hours in December and never charged us for the visit or the drugs. But then this is a man still working on a paper filing system. There is a lot to be said for the old fashioned touch.
I had to make the hard decision to have one of my rabbits PTS in early February and we just received our bill this week. £130 for euthanasia, cremation and the ashes returned in a scatter tube. I thought that was a pretty reasonable price, particularly as the euthanasia was out of hours.
He also saw the same rabbit previously out of hours in December and never charged us for the visit or the drugs. But then this is a man still working on a paper filing system. There is a lot to be said for the old fashioned touch.
You can often find sites that sell meds here but require a prescription. Usually those sites are cheaper than what my vet charges too. Even if you calculate it by minutes of vet time, as one poster here seemed to try and do, that’s not great. Chances are to even get a prescription you’ve already paid for the consultation with a vet - possibly several even.
As I explained in my earlier post.Online pharmacies can sell drugs to the public for less than we can buy them from wholesalers. Vets cannot compete.
Can you explain why my minute comparison isn't great? If it takes 10minutes to write a prescription, why shouldn't the client pay for those 10minutes?
Yes, I've mentioned this earlier in the thread. The written prescription fee with my vet is £25, but even that added to the online drugs is still dramatically cheaper than what the vet will charge directly.
Just purchased a repeat of one dog's medication today and what the vet last charged me was £140. Bought online for £23, including express delivery. Even with the prescription charge on top it's still well under half price of what the vet wants to charge. So again, where is that extra money going? Because it simply cannot be on wholesale prices when the consumer can get it direct at such a reduced price, and must be pure profit.
Nothing wrong with profit, of course, but when it comes to the fact pet owners are over a barrel and it forces them to make very hard choices, it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.
Thought you couldn't be bothered to debate this anymore?
Or is that only when the counter argument is too strong?There's absolutely no way vets are paying more from wholesalers that the public pay from online sites. That's not how wholesale works in any sector.
While VAT is charged on pet medication, most business get to write off VAT on purchases, and if that's the case for Vets too (I don't know, I'm not an account) then that would make it even cheaper for them as well. If not, it's still an outrageous markup.
So it takes 10 mins to write process a prescription and it's a £25 charge. So £2.50 a minute to click a couple of buttons and hit print/sign/scan/email, right? Especially when it's a repeat prescription where there's absolutely no 'expertise' needed in establishing what drugs/dosage are needed.
10 minutes is exceptionally generous too. I do similar tasks day to day in my job, and there's no way it even takes 10 minutes, 5 on a go slow!
That's an absolutely outrageous charge, and if you didn't work in this sector, I'm pretty sure you'd likely agree too!
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Could it be that the drugs are just simple a bit expensive because of who the supplier is that the vets need to use for legal reasons, an with all the regulations the supplier needs to go through they are marking it up a bit?
I don't buy online so I don't know how it all works, but I'd imagine vets would only be allowed to use certain suppliers compared to the public that have a bit more freedom to where they could go so therefore can be able to get whatever drugs cheaper if they were to shop around a bit
I don't buy online so I don't know how it all works, but I'd imagine vets would only be allowed to use certain suppliers compared to the public that have a bit more freedom to where they could go so therefore can be able to get whatever drugs cheaper if they were to shop around a bit
It's possible, but I cannot believe what goes for 25p a dose for us would be charged as £7 for a vet. (Just one example.) Maybe 50p or even £1 but not £7! As I said before, even with delivery costs (which are usually written off on a bulk buy) and fees for staff to process/shelve the products, there is still an extortionate markup on medication and that markup is going somewhere, and I doubt it's the staff's bank accounts.
I would expect vets buy direct from the manufacturer too, which should be significantly cheaper. I know my vet has a wealth of pads and pens with various drugs logos on them, having dealt in a similar field before I know those items usually come directly from the drug reps. Who always tend to offer decent savings or deals to get their products into circulation. I wouldn't expect it's much different in the veterinary sector.
Sorry, I didn't realise I couldn't change my mindYes, I've mentioned this earlier in the thread. The written prescription fee with my vet is £25, but even that added to the online drugs is still dramatically cheaper than what the vet will charge directly.
Just purchased a repeat of one dog's medication today and what the vet last charged me was £140. Bought online for £23, including express delivery. Even with the prescription charge on top it's still well under half price of what the vet wants to charge. So again, where is that extra money going? Because it simply cannot be on wholesale prices when the consumer can get it direct at such a reduced price, and must be pure profit.
Nothing wrong with profit, of course, but when it comes to the fact pet owners are over a barrel and it forces them to make very hard choices, it leaves a very bad taste in the mouth.
Thought you couldn't be bothered to debate this anymore?
There's absolutely no way vets are paying more from wholesalers that the public pay from online sites. That's not how wholesale works in any sector.
While VAT is charged on pet medication, most business get to write off VAT on purchases, and if that's the case for Vets too (I don't know, I'm not an account) then that would make it even cheaper for them as well. If not, it's still an outrageous markup.
So it takes 10 mins to write process a prescription and it's a £25 charge. So £2.50 a minute to click a couple of buttons and hit print/sign/scan/email, right? Especially when it's a repeat prescription where there's absolutely no 'expertise' needed in establishing what drugs/dosage are needed.
10 minutes is exceptionally generous too. I do similar tasks day to day in my job, and there's no way it even takes 10 minutes, 5 on a go slow!
That's an absolutely outrageous charge, and if you didn't work in this sector, I'm pretty sure you'd likely agree too!
Silly me. You've still not told me what tablets you're buying for 25p. I'm genuinely intrigued to do a cost comparison.
Quote;
There's absolutely no way vets are paying more from wholesalers that the public pay from online sites. That's not how wholesale works in any sector.
I'm certain you must know better, when you don't work in the sector, but just out of interest I looked at a few examples for you;
Apoquel 5.4mg at Animed Direct is 95p for a single tablet, you can buy 100 tablets for £95
From our wholesaler, we pay - to the wholesalers -£93.95.
Propalin 100ml at Animed Direct is £28.25, our wholesalers sells us it for £38.87
Cardisure 5mg, 100 tablets at Animed Direct is £93.00, at our wholesalers it's £115.96.
Now, I have no idea why this is possible, but these prices above are fact, straight off our wholesaler ordering platform.
All sorts of businesses charge administrative fees. Insurance Companies, Banks, Landlords. Why shouldn't vets charge? If there was a problem with the medication, or dosing, or something, the client would still ring us, and we'd give the support for free.
I don't dispute some prices at some practices are extortionate, but sometimes (as I except in your 'friends' bladder cancer case), their bills are expensive because they want the work ups.
Vets Now do seem eye wateringly expensive, but it's hard to have a balanced arguement about it when numbers are being thrown around with no context to the treatment given. Part of the reason so many practices use alternative practices for emergency care is because vets and nurses are leaving the profession in droves because of burnout and general practices can't get staff.
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Here you go with that 25p again
which drug is it?---
Some drugs we can, yes and (my practice), passes those savings to the client. Loxicom is an example of this.
Oh I definitely agree it's not going into the staffs pockets, a friend of mine is a vet (he's a horse specialist down in London now) an while he's very well paid for his job he's far off being paid thousands an thousands per month, so am wondering if perhaps overheads are just more expensive than what we think they are
Above poster mentioned admin fees being taken, I'd imagine vets would also have insurances to pay out on top of business fees, accountant fees, the practice rent/mortgage an its bills, staff, animal food, drugs, an then everything else, ours offers free coffee/tea an hot chocolates as well as biscuits, they look like they have subscriptions to magazines as they have those in the waiting area, they have a little cat area with towers, a quiet room with calming scents, toilets, then they also sell toys, treats, food, beds etc, am not saying that they are financing all of this purely from the sale of drugs an treatment but I'd imagine sales from everything would go into running the entire vet an the drugs an treatment are maybe what they relay on the most, they also have their van that would need taxed, mot, petrol etc
Above poster mentioned admin fees being taken, I'd imagine vets would also have insurances to pay out on top of business fees, accountant fees, the practice rent/mortgage an its bills, staff, animal food, drugs, an then everything else, ours offers free coffee/tea an hot chocolates as well as biscuits, they look like they have subscriptions to magazines as they have those in the waiting area, they have a little cat area with towers, a quiet room with calming scents, toilets, then they also sell toys, treats, food, beds etc, am not saying that they are financing all of this purely from the sale of drugs an treatment but I'd imagine sales from everything would go into running the entire vet an the drugs an treatment are maybe what they relay on the most, they also have their van that would need taxed, mot, petrol etc
What would the costs then be for a customer of yours?
All good throwing wholesale prices around - and actually the markup isn’t that bad - but it doesn’t necessarily show the markups for customers too
I don’t mind paying for consultations, but to pay for extra 10 minutes (generous btw) for someone to click some buttons and push print is a bit of a laugh. My vets normally takes a min to do that at best
I'm not at work right now, so can't check.
My point regarding the wholesaler prices was to demonstrate that online pharmacies can sell them cheaper than we can buy them for.
Clavaseptin, for one. You want me to provide invoices? Would that stop you pissing on my shoes and claiming it's raining?
At this rate it's around a 25% increase on what the public pay, so I think you need a new wholesaler. They're clearly taking the piss out of your practice. The very definition of 'wholesale' is that you get products cheaper than the general public. Makes absolutely zero sense that you'd be paying more.
Do I have to keep saying this?
Because if you don't like your insurance, your bank, or your landlord - you've got options. There are NO options other than to go to a vet. There is zero competition in the veterinary sector, therefore they have pet owners to ransom as there is absolutely no alternative (other than letting the animal suffer/die) than to pay the fees the vet sets.
If I have a credit card that's charging me extortionate interest rates, I look for another credit card with a cheaper offer and transfer my balance. Maybe with a supermarket bank, maybe with a high street bank, maybe with a bank that exists only online....there are OPTIONS!
If my dog/cat gets sick, sure, I can shop around for a better quote (but honestly, who is going to do that, especially if the animal is acutely ill!) but I can't go and find an alternative to veterinary medicine/treatment.
I am fine with paying a price that covers overheads, I'm not disputing that AT ALL. What I am disputing is the fact it's absolutely sick to profit off ill animals and vulnerable owners and it's very clear this is what some vets are happily doing.
That's funny. I just bought Loxicom today and had I got it from the vet there certainly wouldn't have been any savings passed on based on the savings made.
My thoughts exactly! It's all well and good quoting the wholesale price, the issue is the markup and what the client actually gets charged, which I guarantee is at least 50% more than the purchase price.
Exactly this. It takes barely a few minutes to print a prescription, so charging £25 for a print off is absolute black and white extortion/profiteering and nothing better. If you did a costing for the paper/ink/internet access/labour it wouldn't come close to that much either, so where's the money going? Someone is cleaning up!
Convenient. How can you access the wholesaler's prices if you're not at work?
Didn't think we had work from home RVN...Again, I think you need to suggest finding a new wholesaler because the entire concept of wholesale is getting it cheaper than Average Joe can buy for. So something isn't adding up here at all.
Oh, and we'll wait while you get back to us with what the client pays on top of these wholesale prices....
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Vets are a business, I’m not naive enough to think that partners don’t get some kind of bonus from profit but being in a healthy profit does mean that practices themselves can benefit - eg better equipment, more staff. But the vet sector isn’t the most morally grey in terms of making profit - you should look into how charities operate and the % money that actually goes to causes. Or how supermarkets advertised cost savings during a cost of living crisis. The business side of things is going to want to stay in profit and is going to seem cold and detached.
vets themselves do care about what happens to animals but it’s hardily their fault if an owner is uninsured and/or cant afford the going rate for treatment. What are they going to do? Offer to pay the costs themselves? Your average vet has about as much control over prices as we do and have to use reputable/ industry mandated suppliers. They can’t just pop on a website and buy a 25p drug and think “ah it’ll do”.
I do feel sorry for people who’ve had a change in circumstance or cant keep up with the rising costs but affordable vet care, subsidised or otherwise feels a million miles away. and tbh If it came to government schemes, as much as I love animals I don’t want to pay extra taxes so people who can barely afford to care for their pet in the first place can get free/ discounted services.
vets themselves do care about what happens to animals but it’s hardily their fault if an owner is uninsured and/or cant afford the going rate for treatment. What are they going to do? Offer to pay the costs themselves? Your average vet has about as much control over prices as we do and have to use reputable/ industry mandated suppliers. They can’t just pop on a website and buy a 25p drug and think “ah it’ll do”.
I do feel sorry for people who’ve had a change in circumstance or cant keep up with the rising costs but affordable vet care, subsidised or otherwise feels a million miles away. and tbh If it came to government schemes, as much as I love animals I don’t want to pay extra taxes so people who can barely afford to care for their pet in the first place can get free/ discounted services.