To clarify, I don’t pay a consultation fee for routine vaccines, follow ups etc. for my dogs. In my opinion the consultation fee is money well spent when I’m getting generally 15 mins one on one time with the vet. It’s not a case of walking in and they throw some antibiotics at me and off I pop, they give my animals a really thorough checkup and provide me with a wealth of options and information and advice before deciding on a treatment course.
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Don't get me started on the cost of human healthcare, it's insane. An old school friend in the states is facing $1million in medical debt due to
needing an emergency cesarean for twins and having all kinds of complications for both her and the babies. Even with insurance she's still looking at paying back $900k. It's absolutely obscene.
I don't mind paying a fair price for emergency/out of hours care, I know it comes at a premium to get any service at unsociable hours, but there should be regulations on it so that people (and animals) aren't taken advantage of. There should be encouragement/incentives of some kind for independent vets to offer their own in-house emergency care so that people aren't forced to choose between paying extortionate fees to a profit-focused franchise and the welfare/life of their beloved pets.
Your rabbit sounds like quite a little character.
It is criminal, really. What gets me is - I have a cousin in Brazil. She can literally go on Amazon.br and order the same medication that I have to pay £25 for a prescription for. She can walk into a pet store and buy antibiotics and pain too. No one there abuses the system. There is a major street dog/cat problem which is utterly heartbreaking, but the fact they can access medication so freely and so cheaply is just bizarre to me considering how tightly it's controlled here.
I agree owning a pet is a privilege and not a right, but at the same time with the state of the world/country right now, maybe people have taken on pets because they could afford them and are now finding they can't, simply because the country is circling the drain.
Pets are what literally get many people out of bed in the morning. I know folks who love their pets more than their own children! Having a bond with an animal is a wonderful and something that costs shouldn't prohibit.
It's a huge responsibility to take on a pet, but we're never going to get a grip on the crisis of so many animals needing homes and rescues being absolutely overrun unless it becomes more affordable to keep a pet.
Also, rescue centers need to get a grip with their rehoming policies because refusing adoptions because someone works full time is ridiculous. I've known so many folks go to adopt only to be rejected because they work 7-8 hours a day, only to go out and buy a puppy instead. I'm sorry but how is anyone expected to pay to maintain a pet without holding down a job? It's ludicrous. It's all a vicious circle that needs to be addressed.
Absolutely agree with your comments about rehoming. This is why I have cats from a breeder which I do feel bad about but I couldn't rescue as I lived in a flat at a time, then when I wanted a second one, I couldn't get one as they all either had to go to a home where there are no other pets or had to be allowed to go outside. As I don't want to have an outdoor cat it's almost impossible to rescue, considering all the other requirements too
I bought my current cat from gumtree as we couldn't get one from a rehoming charity. Something about the road behind my house being "too busy"...without them ever coming to see it, and it being separated from my garden by two high fences. OK fair enough my old cat would have been capable of climbing the fence on to the main road but he could never be bothered to do that when he had much quieter residential streets to explore. They told me I'd only be able to be considered for an indoor only cat which, like you say, it's almost impossible to get.
I do agree about the rehoming, it's ridiculous the hoops you need to jump through an it's sad that more an more animals are being left in shelters because people are being forced to go to breeders which aren't always legit because some breeders are disgusting an cruel
We wanted to re-home a dog an were told we could only have a elderly dog as since we hadn't had a dog then we weren't "experienced" enough to have a younger dog (my mum grew up all her life with dogs) an while now I do agree it's nice to re-home the elderly dogs at the time me an my brother were kids, we wanted to play an take them long walks an kick a ball etc something you can't do with a 14/15 year old, in the end we did manage to "re-home" a dog, his ad was in the pet shop an he had been abused an the new owners wanted to give him away as they couldn't deal with his behaviour due to his trama, he was 18m an we sadly lost him just before his 16th but the fact is, we managed, he was trained by myself as I was learning as I had wanted to be a animal handler, yes it was hard work with his behaviour (no fault of his which I understood) but we got there, an it just makes me angry at the amount of animals being left an missing out on incredible lives
We wanted to re-home a dog an were told we could only have a elderly dog as since we hadn't had a dog then we weren't "experienced" enough to have a younger dog (my mum grew up all her life with dogs) an while now I do agree it's nice to re-home the elderly dogs at the time me an my brother were kids, we wanted to play an take them long walks an kick a ball etc something you can't do with a 14/15 year old, in the end we did manage to "re-home" a dog, his ad was in the pet shop an he had been abused an the new owners wanted to give him away as they couldn't deal with his behaviour due to his trama, he was 18m an we sadly lost him just before his 16th but the fact is, we managed, he was trained by myself as I was learning as I had wanted to be a animal handler, yes it was hard work with his behaviour (no fault of his which I understood) but we got there, an it just makes me angry at the amount of animals being left an missing out on incredible lives
I've seen a lot of rescues making it so their cats can only be rehomed if the applicant agrees to keep them indoors, which I'm all for because cats are so vulnerable to harm outside and can do so much damage. They can live happy fulfilled lives inside with enrichment and a nice window to sun themselves in. Our cats were always outdoor when I was growing up and we were so lucky that they all lived to die of old age, but these days, with the horror stories I've seen and heard more and more lately - indoor is the way to go for sure. For the cats safety and that of small critters in the wild.
The "other pets" thing kind of pisses me off at times too. How exactly do they determine that a dog/cat won't get on with another animal? All animals are individuals, like people, we get along with some folks but not others. How much effort do they put into determining these things before ruling it out?
We had cats for 20+ years along side dogs, never had a problem. We waited 10 years to get another cat after our last one died at 18 and again, had to buy because rehoming centres wouldn't allow any cats be to homed with other pets/dogs.
Our youngest dog was absolutely terrified of the kitten to begin with, as she'd never know a cat and hadn't even seen one out on walk. When we first got him the other dogs weren't bothered by him at all, but she couldn't even look at him she was so scared. (He was a ballsy little menace, so he had no qualms in getting in her face trying to make friends). She would try to 'mother' him by following him everywhere, but she'd run away the second he reacted to her.
It took a couple of weeks and a lot of lying on the floor amongst the dogs with the kitten in the middle and now, they're best friends. He shares a bed with her, they're always touching noses and kissing each other and playing. But for those first few weeks I was sure we'd made a terrible mistake and that he'd have to be rehomed because she was so unconfident around him. Now, three years later - you'd never know they hadn't always been best buds!
It takes time and patience to introduce a new pet, especially of a different species, so it really does annoy me when rescues rule it out as a possibility without good reason. (Like known aggression/attacks etc)
Totally agree. There are so many amazing animals in shelters that are missing out due to stupid rehoming rules (I'm sure it's all legal ass covering!). Kills me that you can just walk into a shelter in America, sign a form and walk off with a dog. While I do believe there should be checks in place, it's madness to make it so hard while there continues to be nothing stopping any idiot buying a puppy. There shouldn't be so many restrictions on who can rehome an older dog when breeders are out there unregulated and ten a penny.
I'm with you. It just takes time and patience and effort to get a dog transitioned and trained. We got my GSD as a puppy and he was an absolute nightmare, drove me to the point of tears several times when he was in his "teens", he wouldn't do a Goddamned thing he was told and would run off all the time, but we pushed through and he ended up being the best dog and my little shadow. But my God, that first year or so....he tested me hahaha!
When I was a kid we went to a rehoming centre to get another dog some months after our dog had tragically died. Went every Saturday and Wednesday for weeks to walk him while they "assessed us", and we'd bonded and our family loved him. Then in the 11th hour the rescue then turned around and said we couldn't have him because my mother was disabled and used a wheelchair to go out for a walk!!! Of course, they'd never get away with that nowadays, but this was in the late 90's. To lets kids bond with a dog and then deny them taking him home was so cruel. It was grief on top of grief.
Stupidest thing was, even though my mom is disabled, she used to be a police dog handler and had been raised in a multi dog home her whole life. So what happened? We went out and got a puppy (and then end up collecting a couple more dogs in the following years too) who lived his best life until he was 14 years old and age took him from us. He would roll alongside my mom on her scooter with no issues. The older dog we adopted from a family member a few years later was just the same! No issues with adapting to walking alongside a wheelchair and what not.
All our/my dogs so far have lived well into old age and have been completely and utterly adored and considered probably the most important member of our family! It's really sad how so many dogs and people miss out on making those special bonds because of some dumb rules that really benefit no one in the long run.
Last year I paid over £5k on treatment for my cat, not covered by insurance, and I’d do the same again in a heartbeat. She needs specialised care and I feel really lucky that there’s a handful of vets in this country that can help treat her. They gave me a full itemised breakdown of everything and I know to some people they thing “wow they’re really counting the pennies- £3 in dressings”. I don’t think 5k is a lot in the grand scheme of making sure my
Cat is pain free and getting to have her as a part of my life for longer - I’m just very thankful a specialist was able to take on her case and give her a better outcome.
vets are completely privatised. There’s no government pot that feeds into it and they have a lot of overheads. It’s becoming a difficult profession to recruit for, due to various reasons but one being that when you do 5 years of uni you do have a salary expectation. I work for a private company, not doing anything remotely complicated in comparison but charge 500-1k a day for my time and it’s because people are paying for the expertise, so I don’t have a problem doing the same when it comes to caring for my cats. If I didn’t think I couldn’t afford to care for them if something went wrong then I wouldn’t have adopted them.
Pharmaceutical companies have a lot to do with it too- vet wholesalers are generally charged more than for human pharmacies. And also insurance companies- they are a massive issue, there’s little to no benefit of keeping my cat insured because of the sheer amount of things they will not cover.
Cat is pain free and getting to have her as a part of my life for longer - I’m just very thankful a specialist was able to take on her case and give her a better outcome.
vets are completely privatised. There’s no government pot that feeds into it and they have a lot of overheads. It’s becoming a difficult profession to recruit for, due to various reasons but one being that when you do 5 years of uni you do have a salary expectation. I work for a private company, not doing anything remotely complicated in comparison but charge 500-1k a day for my time and it’s because people are paying for the expertise, so I don’t have a problem doing the same when it comes to caring for my cats. If I didn’t think I couldn’t afford to care for them if something went wrong then I wouldn’t have adopted them.
Pharmaceutical companies have a lot to do with it too- vet wholesalers are generally charged more than for human pharmacies. And also insurance companies- they are a massive issue, there’s little to no benefit of keeping my cat insured because of the sheer amount of things they will not cover.
Might differ with states but technically it's not true, the US is as hard as it is in the UK, a friend wanted a dog, she has one at home an 3 cats an they wanted all the details of every pet she had at home as well as job details an who was going look after them when she was out etc, once she passed that they then wanted her to bring her dog to the shelter to observe how hers got on with the one she wanted to take, now her dog is great at home an lived peacefully with her last dog who sadly passed, but outside of home he's quite anxious, she was denied from 3 shelters because they said her dog wasn't suitable to be with another dog, even though he's fine at home, but because he was nervous at the shelter (a previous shelter dog) they instantly labelled him as being unsuitable, she also had to visit I think 3 times, in the end she had to go to a breeders
Don’t get a pet then
pets are a privilege and it’s up to the person who gets them to be able to afford them. - just saw someone said that but it’s true so I’ll also say it. They are a business, how much do energy companies charge and how much profit do they get, a lot more profit than vets. And people need heat etc.If comparing the price to online pharmacies the vets won’t get them at that cost?
Private human health care does matter, doesn’t matter about the NHS, we are lucky to have that, but at the end of the day vet care is like
Private human healthcare, a business and if getting a pet that should be thought about first. And I’ve seen people say vet care is a lot cheaper than human private healthcare.
As I said they don’t do out of hours themselves due to staff not wanting to do it, how can they do it if they cannot get the staff. As I said it can affect their day running which I bet people would also complain about.
Pet insurance helps as most people who don’t have it will have a limit on what they can pay and vets need to save money on testing for the animal to then be treated, even though they’ll offer every option a lot will opt for the cheapest. If pet insurance is involved then the vet has more scope to do more tests, which helps as your more likely to get answers quicker and not have to go back again if the first test was negative but it maybe be another condition that needs another test. I know I’d rather get all the tests done at once, get results quicker than do one at a time from most likely to least likely to be the issue. I couldn’t afford a variety of tests at once without pet insurance. Even if I wouldn’t put my pet through certain things like chemo, at least the pet insurance will help me
The biggest problem in veterinary practices and the vets world (apart from the usual shortage of vets), is the corporatisation of the sector.
10/20/30/whatever years ago, lots of vets set up their own practices and built very good, very popular, local businesses.
Then the corporates stated to establish Vets4Pets etc. And now there's quite a few corporate groups as an earlier poster listed. And they are hoovering up the independent practices and even the independent groups from the vets who are now in their 50s/60s and quite rightly want their exit strategy and want to retire or do less etc.
The corporates are paying an awful lot of money to buy lots of practices, and leave customers with no option to use them because they own all the practices around and the prices are to get the buyout money back effectively.
Services are cut, customers are treated worse, prices soar and profits rocket because people have to pay.
10/20/30/whatever years ago, lots of vets set up their own practices and built very good, very popular, local businesses.
Then the corporates stated to establish Vets4Pets etc. And now there's quite a few corporate groups as an earlier poster listed. And they are hoovering up the independent practices and even the independent groups from the vets who are now in their 50s/60s and quite rightly want their exit strategy and want to retire or do less etc.
The corporates are paying an awful lot of money to buy lots of practices, and leave customers with no option to use them because they own all the practices around and the prices are to get the buyout money back effectively.
Services are cut, customers are treated worse, prices soar and profits rocket because people have to pay.
I definitely agree about rehoming centres being too strict but I guess they have to cover themselves.
I do think some (most I’d say) make it worse for themselves. They complain about being full and not being able to take on other cases. Yet have aggressive dogs with bite histories they are trying to rehome or dogs that are so anxious they are aggressive. Imo if a dog is that anxious it cannot live a normal life then put it to sleep. It’s not a happy dog, as I said previous on a different thread behavioural euthanasia imo is underused and hate on for no reason. As long as it’s a valid reason why is it any different to using it for a health issue as at the end of the day imo it’s no different. At the end of the day these dogs are harder to rehome, probably not happy in themselves a lot of the time and that’s why they’ve ended up in rescue to begin with and they are taking up space of an animal that can be helped. Especially if the issue has been worked on with a behaviourist and not improved. I think I definitely worked this better last time I posted about it. But imo behavioural issues should be treated like health issues.
IMO some rescues keep animals alive for too long and spend too much money on trying to save or prolong the life of animals that need to be put to sleep: for example I follow a rescue who had this old stray cat that had a heart mass, yet they put it through surgery to castrate it and remove a lump from its eye, it died a few days later. That cat is now the face of their charity and they got a lot of money from using it as PR. I just don’t agree with things like that, i was surprised the vet did the surgery tbh because why bother doing them things when the cat is likely to die soon from is heart mass. It’s not like they got full price for the surgery either as they give them discount for being a charity. But obviously I don’t know the full history so I assume the vet was happy to do it after assessing everything and wouldn’t have gone ahead otherwise.
I think the problem with euthanasia is that if it was relaxed then shelters would maybe abuse it, there really should be a specialised place for dogs with behaviour issues where they can only go to experienced people with no kids, no other animals etc, because it's not the animals fault, while I do agree that maybe not all can be saved like truly aggressive dogs that would be living almost 24/7 with a muzzle there are others that with the right experience an care can eventually calm down an become a great pet, maybe they will still need a muzzle in public but they could have a great home life
I do agree however that some are maybe kept passed their time an it isn't far when they aren't getting quality of life, as heartbreaking as it is to make the decision when you are close to a pet you still have to think of quality of life for them an some are kept alive past that
I do agree however that some are maybe kept passed their time an it isn't far when they aren't getting quality of life, as heartbreaking as it is to make the decision when you are close to a pet you still have to think of quality of life for them an some are kept alive past that
Also where are stricter rules regarding breeding. Because at the end of the day bad breeding will lead to a lot of money being spent on vet bills.
Look at frenchies for example, breathing issues, spinal issues, eye issues, brain issues, elbow breaks, skin issues and some which can be sold for thousands and usually the worse specimens being sold for more I think e.g. the big rope ones. People spend thousands on a puppy yet when it breaks its leg and the owners doesn’t have the money to fix it it’s the vets fault.
Look at frenchies for example, breathing issues, spinal issues, eye issues, brain issues, elbow breaks, skin issues and some which can be sold for thousands and usually the worse specimens being sold for more I think e.g. the big rope ones. People spend thousands on a puppy yet when it breaks its leg and the owners doesn’t have the money to fix it it’s the vets fault.
I wont touch vets now with a barge pole. They incorrectly diagnosed my cat, wouldn't even do any physical exams, just went on look. Cost us well over £200 for a tub of cream (which she didn't need!) and an exam.
Went to my vets the next day who actually listened to me and after a physical exam agreed with me about the diagnosis and she got the treatment she needed and was fine.
Anyway, on vets cost prices, to be fair I've never had an issue with my vets, alot of the time if we go in and it's something that doesn't need any treatment ect they'll let us have it for free.
The one time I had an issue was when my cat became poorly and we weren't to sure if she ate some kids fake snow and the poison control people charged us £50 just to tell us if anything in it was poisonous to cats. They have to over a barrel that way as you need to know if your pet has been poisoned or not. Thankfully she wasn't and she just had a viral infection!
This , my uncle retired early because he couldn’t cope with the stress of running a business of 30+ people and caring for animals, providing hr, chasing up none paying clients, being harassed by them - got a paving slab through a window at home, he couldn’t find vets willing to work nights and weekends even with a free car and accommodation and newer vets are even more demanding, wanting a vet nurse each to sew up animals , do smaller ops etc which costs more money.
Another thing that annoys me is when people get annoyed at vets not doing payment plans. They should blame people who they had previously given them to who then haven’t paid and then have to be chased up. Tbf most ops you do need a nurse or at least someone else to monitor the patient as once scrubbed up the vet wouldn’t be able to do it. It’s an emotionally hard job I don’t blame vets for not wanting to do out of hours and having to deal with that on top of the normal day
You do realize that no one in life is immune from a downfall, right? And that many people who were able to afford pets when they got them suddenly end up struggling to afford them, or being completely unable to? Hence the crisis in animal shelters across the country.Don’t get a pet then
More so, how many people have kids without considering the fact that child could be born sick, or get sick at some point in their lives? Would you turn around when the NHS is gone and say "yeah, well, shouldn't have had a kid if you can't afford to make them better?"
Vets fees are definitely a massive issue in the UK. I gave examples of Brazil above, but it's the same in Spain. What costs me £140 a year in boosters for a single dog, my aunt in Spain gets for £50 for two. One of her dogs had bladder cancer, was a whole ordeal for 12 months and it cost her less than £1k in treatment. My best friend's dog of the same breed had the same condition with a better prognosis and only 6 months later, it cost her £8k. Vets charging obscene amounts seems ever more to be a British problem than standard practice for the profession. Much like most things happening in this country right now, we're being mugged off left and right for profiteering.
Yeah, and I don't agree with that either. But again, there are ways around reducing the amount of energy you use (putting on a coat/layers etc). When prices go up in shops, there are cheaper alternatives too, but vets have everyone over a barrel because there is literally no alternative to the care they can provide.
It's not remotely comparable. Private human healthcare is a choice, for most an all out luxury. We can choose to go private at any point and still go back to the NHS. Private health care (fortunately) isn't our only option in the way it is with veterinary care.
You don't find many people calling their private healthcare provider at 3am on a Wednesday because someone is vomiting violently and having a seizure, because emergency private healthcare does not exist. We can call 999 for help and be put back right for free. We don't have to go running to the nearest emergency vets and come away with a debt of thousands.
This I agree with. Breeders are completely unscrupulous and often simply in it for the money. I loathe people who will have a litter of puppies/kittens and defend it by saying they're "not a breeder"....if you've facilitated an animal pregnancy - you're a breeder. End of!
I was absolutely disgusted to see Channel 4 doing that show following backyard breeders a few months back. Especially in a cost of living crisis where there's nothing stopping anyone from thinking they'll make a few quid from getting their pet knocked up.
Frenchies should be banned if you ask me. At least until the health issues have been bred out. But there's a big difference between paying an initial outlay of £1k and then facing a sudden vet bill of £5k and/or repeated treatments every month of £100+.
I personally think there should be a law that says anyone owning a pet should be forced to purchase at least some form of pet insurance, but that in itself would lead to further profiteering from the insurance companies who are already taking the piss by excluding conditions and denying claims.
I've said as much earlier in the thread. We're supposed to be a nation of animal lovers and I would happily pay a couple of quid extra in tax each month if it went to a system where vets were better supported and veterinary medicine/treatment was cheaper and more accessible for pet owners.
Well good for you, earning that much a day you've clearly got no problems in finding the money necessary to pay for treatment. Same can't be said for about 70% of the pet owning population though.
As I said in earlier in the thread, I'm not convinced it is veterinary pharma as you can purchase a tablet that a vet will charge you £7 for 25p online. I'd like to know who actually is responsible for the mark up on the medication they prescribe.
Pet insurance is a joke, even if you think you're covered, you're not, and generally you're only covered until the pet turns 8/9 years old, which is shameful when dogs can live to 10-14 fairly easily and cats even older, especially if they're indoor. You often end up having to pay a certain percentage of the cost of treatment, even while still paying for a fully comp policy. It's another racket, which needs looking into, especially these companies that cherrypick from their terms and conditions or suddenly change them mid policy (as once you've claimed for an illness you're screwed for getting cover elsewhere) but it's a thousand percent better to have a policy in place to cover some of the costs than have nothing to fall back on.
Because as they say, we're all only one banana skin away from disaster or disability, and the same goes for animals unfortunately.
Yeah fair enough if you had a downfall but I’d say the majority that isn’t the case and most have got pets without having a plan to pay for care. Like my example of spending thousands on a pup then not affording treatment when somethings happens quickly. It depends if the persons picked a breed known to have health issues then have to pay out for them then that’s their own fault for not doing enough research into the breed they got.
Ok if there isn’t private emergency care then why is it a shock that it costs more. I think it is too much for emergency ooh care I never said I didn’t but it makes sense it costs more.
I do believe if you can’t afford a kid don’t have one, obviously not to do with health as we have the nhs which I also as I think I said shouldn’t really be taken into consideration with vet fees apart from the fact that we don’t realise how much stuff costs because of it
Ok if there isn’t private emergency care then why is it a shock that it costs more. I think it is too much for emergency ooh care I never said I didn’t but it makes sense it costs more.
I do believe if you can’t afford a kid don’t have one, obviously not to do with health as we have the nhs which I also as I think I said shouldn’t really be taken into consideration with vet fees apart from the fact that we don’t realise how much stuff costs because of it
Sorry, this is hilarious.
1. Vet care in the UK vs Spain is incomparable. There is no way that it's like for like. Starters, they don't have veterinary nurses providing care. UK RVNs are genuinely the most skilled in the world.
2. Your friend whose dog had £8k worth of treatment. Did they have to do that, or were they offered imaging and opted to have a CT or MRI scan, or want to try chemo? Most dogs with bladder cancer are treated with meloxicam.
I'm also intrigued at what medications are being bought for 25p including VAT that you keep mentioning. I want to check who much we buy it for from our wholesalers.
Regarding buying antibiotics over the counter in Brazil or Spain, is honestly horrifying. Antibiotic resistance is one of the biggest threats to the world, and it's this ignorance, buying random antibiotics and using them to treat inappropriate things, that fuels it.
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Lol like people who come in with a French Bulldog they've just paid >2k for, but can't afford to vaccinated it.
Happens. Every. Week.
I wasn't going to comment on this thread, having had awful experiences with vets and their prices, but as I'm actually in the progress in hopefully rehoming a dog, we're traveling miles every time we can to see her with our dog, the behaviourist is actually great, she's the same as us, wants it work for all of us, the dogs background has been horrendous, but she needs a chance, your comment has really pissed me off, talking to the guys who care for these dogs, and hearing about their history , I'll tell behaviourist tomorrow your views.......