UK Politics #2

[NeverEnough]

This is why I think Mordaunt had some momentum, like Biden in the US people just want a candidate who will calm the political new cycle as they are sick of the constant uproar and turmoil. A boring PM brings that.


Was Corbyn any more anti-Semetic than Boris, JRM? It's hard to measure such a thing I suppose but for all the accusations (rightly or wrongly) about anti-Semitism in the Labour party under Corbyn there seemed to less uproar about seemingly sustained and historical evidence of anti-semitism in the Conservative party, from it's inception to the present day.

Whataboutery at it’s finest there. Labour promotes itself as the party of equality, diversity and inclusion. I know this because the supporters keep parroting this like some sort of religious devotion. Any suggestion of discrimination should be anathema to Labours DNA. Yet Corbyn allowed it flourish. For all the rhetoric Labour have never had a full time leader who wasn’t a white middle aged male. Whereas, unless Tugendhat produces a miracle, we are now looking at a third female PM or a first BAME one. All Tory. Talk or do. I know which I prefer.

Biden is an interesting case study. He stated that his VP was going to be a black woman no matter what. Meaning that a physical characteristic rather than suitability for the job became the primary means of selection for arguably the second most powerful person on the planet. Just a heart attack or an assassins bullet away from being number one. Which lead to Kamala Harris. And given Biden‘s cognitive decline, obvious to all but the most die hard of democrats, the now very real danger that the most spectacularly unqualified and unimpressive VP ever will soon take the reins. And that includes a field that has included Herbert Hoover, Gerald Ford, Dan Quayle, and Mike Pence.

Yay. Representation.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

The more Truss and Sunak try and bad mouth Penny M, the more I want her to win! She obviously gets under their skin.

If Mordant wins over those two, it will be a clear sign that the party members are also sick of the Boris cabinet shenanigan.

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

Whataboutery at it’s finest there. Labour promotes itself as the party of equality, diversity and inclusion. I know this because the supporters keep parroting this like some sort of religious devotion. Any suggestion of discrimination should be anathema to Labours DNA. Yet Corbyn allowed it flourish. For all the rhetoric Labour have never had a full time leader who wasn’t a white middle aged male. Whereas, unless Tugendhat produces a miracle, we are now looking at a third female PM or a first BAME one. All Tory. Talk or do. I know which I prefer.

I mean, it was used as a significant argument against Corbyn's Labour in the last election in favour of Boris Johnson and the Conservative party, I'm not sure it counts as whataboutery to point out that Boris and friends (who are still crowing about keeping 'a dangerous anti-semite out of number 10' - see Zahawi's statement the other day) have said more anti-semitic and racist things on the record, sometimes actually in the commons, than Corbyn has? When they were engaged in a direct head to head contest? It's just not an issue now apparently, like covid. It's still there but no-one cares now.

'He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.'

Classic whataboutery there Jesus, you mug.

 

[Happy Lady]

Just been talking about this with friends and Mr HL - and we all feel the same in that Truss would be the best. She's already proved that she can look ahead, perform, improve and develop. I like her clear thinking, and easy approach to so many aspects that she touched on last night.

Let's see what they all have to say in their next interviews.

 

[Merpedy]

Labour promotes itself as the party of equality, diversity and inclusion. I know this because the supporters keep parroting this like some sort of religious devotion. Any suggestion of discrimination should be anathema to Labours DNA. Yet Corbyn allowed it flourish. For all the rhetoric Labour have never had a full time leader who wasn’t a white middle aged male. Whereas, unless Tugendhat produces a miracle, we are now looking at a third female PM or a first BAME one. All Tory. Talk or do. I know which I prefer.

I think it depends at which Labour supporters you look at tbh. If you look at the very left leaning ones they seem a bit extreme in all of their beliefs and basically want the party to eat itself alive

Honestly, I don't think having a female or BAME leader gives anyone any extra points. It's interesting to discuss at times, especially the possibility of someone who isn't white leading a party who's shown a lot of racism and xenophobia, but makes little difference to how they perform at the job. The way politics works in the UK basically means that the average person probably doesn't feel very represented in politics anyway, but the diversity in Cabinet Ministers means that there's at least visual representation of diversity

 

[CrackingOwlSanctuary]

I feel like we will all be living the real version of Threads with Truss in charge, she already caused problems in the war in Ukraine with her comments that the government had to walk back, she is desperate to be the new Thatcher which no doubt includes having a war of her own.



Rishi farce:



Morduant confused?

 

[LoopyLou47]

I think it depends at which Labour supporters you look at tbh. If you look at the very left leaning ones they seem a bit extreme in all of their beliefs and basically want the party to eat itself alive

Honestly, I don't think having a female or BAME leader gives anyone any extra points. It's interesting to discuss at times, especially the possibility of someone who isn't white leading a party who's shown a lot of racism and xenophobia, but makes little difference to how they perform at the job. The way politics works in the UK basically means that the average person probably doesn't feel very represented in politics anyway, but the diversity in Cabinet Ministers means that there's at least visual representation of diversity

It's not so much the ' saying' when it comes to anti semitism but the absolute obsession with Israel to the exclusion of all else, when other countries are committing far worse atrocities ( China against the uighurs, Tibet, Nigeria, Somalia). And their obsession with US involvement, when, without US involvement, Israel and all the Jews who live there would in all likelihood be annihilated. Whether Black and Asian people in particular would benefit from Sunak is irrelevant really. Some will, some won't, and that will be based on income more than race. Its the tresting of Black and Asian people as a homogenous mass who should all think the same. They have every right to their own views and opinions, no matter if they diverge from what some middle class White person thinks it should be. Momentum is full of them, and they hate it when their stereotypes of minorities or the working class are upended.

 

[Tatooine_legend1]

It's very odd hearing so many women talking about Rishi's looks and how good looking he is. I cannot see it myself, but I'm a guy haha. I mean he's no Henry Cavill is he lol. That's a man whose looks I can appreciate (and be quite envious of ha) as a straight man. Have women's tastes got worse since lockdown or what? Lol

 

[LoopyLou47]

It's very odd hearing so many women talking about Rishi's looks and how good looking he is. I cannot see it myself, but I'm a guy haha. I mean he's no Henry Cavill is he lol. That's a man whose looks I can appreciate (and be quite envious of ha) as a straight man. Have women's tastes got worse since lockdown or what? Lol

Really? He must be about 4 foot tall!

 

[monga]

Maybe it’s best he didn’t get through

 

[HelloStereo]

They have never even had a female leader of the opposition. Really, when the religious nutjobs of the DUP have a female leader before you, you need to take a look at yourself as a party. Especially when, as you point out, choosing white men has worked out to be so ineffective they have hardly been in power in the last 40 years.

Kezia Dugdale was Scottish Labour leader. Harriet Harman was acting leader of the Labour Party. As a previous poster said, there have been fewer Labour prime ministers in general compared to Tory ones.

With the Labour party you do get the more socially conservative economically left wing who perhaps would not be as receptive to a woman leader, but it is laughable to suggest Labour as a whole is more misogynistic than the Conservative party. Especially as 24% of Conservative MPs are women, compared with 51% of Labour MPs.

 

[LoopyLou47]

Kezia Dugdale was Scottish Labour leader. Harriet Harman was acting leader of the Labour Party. As a previous poster said, there have been fewer Labour prime ministers in general compared to Tory ones.

With the Labour party you do get the more socially conservative economically left wing who perhaps would not be as receptive to a woman leader, but it is laughable to suggest Labour as a whole is more misogynistic than the Conservative party. Especially as 24% of Conservative MPs are women, compared with 51% of Labour MPs.

Yes and now Scottish Labour has an Asian leader. But why, if 51% of MPs are women, have none of them even chosen for National leader? They have more to choose from, surely? And yes, Harriet Harman was acting leader, but the longer it takes, the more it looks like for Labour, women are fine as long as they don't get to boss the men around too much.

 

[HelloStereo]

Yes and now Scottish Labour has an Asian leader. But why, if 51% of MPs are women, have none of them even chosen for National leader? They have more to choose from, surely? And yes, Harriet Harman was acting leader, but the longer it takes, the more it looks like for Labour, women are fine as long as they don't get to boss the men around too much.

I think it is more nuanced to say that the candidates who have put themselves forward for Labour leader in the past lost because they were women. There's also timing, luck, how the things they stood for resonated with members.

In terns of policies introduced to further women's rights, Labour are streets ahead of the Conservatives. It is just simplistic to suggest they are somehow sexist because they haven't elected a female leader yet.

 

[Yel]

I'm beginning to really root for Penny seeing the constant smear campaigns. Lots of people clearly don't want her to get it.

Hopefully she's less lackluster in the next round.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

Kezia Dugdale was Scottish Labour leader. Harriet Harman was acting leader of the Labour Party. As a previous poster said, there have been fewer Labour prime ministers in general compared to Tory ones.

With the Labour party you do get the more socially conservative economically left wing who perhaps would not be as receptive to a woman leader, but it is laughable to suggest Labour as a whole is more misogynistic than the Conservative party. Especially as 24% of Conservative MPs are women, compared with 51% of Labour MPs.

Not very impressive though is it? Ruth Davidson was Scottish Conservative Leader.

Currently the race for Conservative Leader is 60% female which is likely to raise to 75% after the next round. There may be fewer females but they are certainly a lot more prominent.

I'm beginning to really root for Penny seeing the constant smear campaigns. Lots of people clearly don't want her to get it.

Hopefully she's less lackluster in the next round.

Which seriously makes me wonder why and I don't believe it's because she's incompetent. Suella Braverman was in there for goodness sake. I think they all know they'll be out of a Cabinet role.

I definitely think Sunak and Truss have some deal going on.

 

[Merpedy]

Currently the race for Conservative Leader is 60% female which is likely to raise to 75% after the next round. There may be fewer females but they are certainly a lot more prominent.

It’s hard to be less prominent when the party is in power though. The shadow Cabinet isn’t that important for the average person, so a Conservative Minister who happens to be female or BAME would automatically have more recognition

Would Labour leadership even be covered by the news as much as a Conservative one?

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

It’s hard to be less prominent when the party is in power though. The shadow Cabinet isn’t that important for the average person, so a Conservative Minister who happens to be female or BAME would automatically have more recognition

Would Labour leadership even be covered by the news as much as a Conservative one?

The last one was covered quite extensively. I suppose in the case of the conservative one they are also choosing a PM.


Who was the last Prime minster to enter and leave via an election?

 

[L3moning]

Who was the last Prime minster to enter and leave via an election?

That's a really good question. Looks like Heath, at a quick glance.

 

[FenellaTheWitch]

That's a really good question. Looks like Heath, at a quick glance.

Callaghan took over from Wilson so I thought it was Heath too. Crazy.

 

[HelloStereo]

Not very impressive though is it? Ruth Davidson was Scottish Conservative Leader.

Currently the race for Conservative Leader is 60% female which is likely to raise to 75% after the next round. There may be fewer females but they are certainly a lot more prominent.

Their records on promoting women's rights is more impressive than the Conservatives though. In the end isn't that what matters most regardless of who is at the helm?

I'm assuming people who are advocating for a woman to be leader do so because they think the end goal is women will then have better representation and therefore policies enacted in their favour. If that's the case, please illustrate how Thatcher and May furthered women's rights and equality more than Labour.

I'll wait.