UK General Election 2024

[YeahBrackie]

Gay people didn't try to change language to suit their views like the pronoun they/them police.
Gay people didn't try to compel others to engage in their fantasy eg that people can change sex. No, they can't.
Gay people didn't support people mutilating their health bodies with surgery and hormones.
Gay people didn't involve children in their sexuality.
Gay people wanted equal rights not extra rights.
Gay people just wanted to be free to love a member of the same sex

Exactly. We also don't go around threatening straight people, holding up signs saying things like "Die straight scum" or telling straight people to "Get off our turf."

I find it interesting when TRAs try to use comparisons to gay people as a way to back up their cause. Especially given how damaging gender ideology is to us, and how much it's turned into a sickening form of conversion therapy to tell gay people they're evil if they don't want to sleep with someone of the opposite sex. Or, alternatively, tell gay people we've actually been born in the wrong body.

 

[Nelly's mum]

toilets have cubicles. i've never once seen another woman's genitals in communal spaces and wouldn't expect that to change because trans people are allowed freedom of expression. tarring everyone deemed an 'other' with the same brush causes nothing but harm and irrational frenzy.

eta - i know it's an important policy when considering which box to cross but i'm not looking to debate tit for tat and derail the thread

What about male bodied 'trans women' in women's prisons, women's sports, Domestic Violence sanctuaries, rape crisis centres? Is that ok if it is your sister or your daughter that is subjected to that?

The trans issue is so much more than "I just wanna pee" - it is disingenuous to reduce protecting womens sex-based rights to an argument about men who say they are women and which toilets they should use.

 

[NeverEnough]

it's about retaining rights - being seen on an appropraite hospital ward, access to hrt, allowed to use public toilets without having their genitals questioned etc. sixty five thousand posts attacking one group under the guise of 'gender discussion' on this forum alone - imagine if the same was true for other minorities.

Isn’t the type of genitals one has one of the key determinants of which toilet to use, or which ward to be allocated to?

I’ve never considered it a “right” to use any toilet I wish. And if you’ve got a cock then you use the Mens and it’s fucking weird not to.

Human Rights legislation used to be about life, protection, and freedom from torture. Now it seems to be about piss. Which particular sections of the HRA covers Urine Rights and the Non-retention of said rights?

 

[coconochanel]

Anyone but the Tories, I need to change my profile pic

 

[Nelly's mum]

Because I find the whole trans debate pointlessly argumentative. Statistics show you're more likely to be raped by someone you know or a partner yet people seem to concern themselves with who they're sharing toilet facilities with in the name of "women's rights".

Ok, one last go....
There is far more to this debate than men in Womens toilets, however the trans allies always return to this point - is this to ridicule and trivialise the concerns?

How can you protect women if you cannot define what a woman is - if every Tom, Dick (especially dick) and Harry can say he is a woman then what is a woman?
What about women's sports - elite sport's women are being beaten by men who are mediocre and wouldn't even make the grade in men's sports.
What about men taking influential positions that are identified for women under EDI?
What about the crimes of trans id'd men being included in the women crime statistics?
What about that thing that never happens - women and girls being raped/SA by these men?
What about the women who have been raped by these men in their hospital wards and prisons?

So just because 50% of women are raped/SA by men they know that is a good reason to let these men into women's safe spaces??? So how well is that going to work out ??

But yeh - "I just wanna pee"

 

[Pontyslapper]

I'm speaking here as a poll clerk - the bod who hands you your vote paper.

Please, please, please, COME TO THE VOTING STATION WITH YOUR PHOTO ID - Passport, new photo driving licence, Bus pass if you're an OAP, military ID card, blue disabled badge - there are numerous choices and they can even be expired. Here is the link that explains all - you'll need to pick your country at the top as it varies a little across the UK, but thats more to do with the type of election.

If you don't have valid photo ID - apply for the Voter Authority Certificate - the link is here - they are free and can be applied for in various ways.

It is a case of NO VALID ID, NO VOTE - most stations will probably check on the door if they can, as if you get to the main table without it - we are supposed to fill in a form and send you away to either gather up a valid form of ID, contact the local election office (before about 4-5pm), not to vote, if you dont have any. Some small stations like the one I usual man, we are locals so know most folk and during the recent Police commissioner vote, were able to head off most non-ID holders by meeting and greeting them between the door and the table.

Please don't kick off at poll station staff over this as you will get a visit from the local plod, and I'm reliably informed it will be taken further into the order of fines or sentencing. Just remember polling station staff, although being paid, are normally just local folk who value democracy and are offering up their time to allow voting to happen. We basically are told - anyone kicks off, explain, if they carry on 999 and you will have plod with you in minutes.

It is a huge change and most stations I'm guessing had little or no trouble - we had a few grumbles from older locals but they toddled off and got their IDs.

Also, a picture of your ID on your phone - NOT VALID - as a photo can be manipulated.

If you are POSTAL VOTING - send it off in good time. If you rock up to a polling station with a postal vote - you now have the mega potch of filling in a form that is also a pain for polling station staff as we (well the polling officer) has to fillout a corresponding section on the form and tot it up on further forms.

Sorry for the long post - Lets all enjoy the shenanigans and whatnot the next few weeks will bring!

 

[Nelly's mum]

The toilet debate always seems to hinge on trans individuals who don’t pass as female. Yet there are plenty of trans individuals that do and the final result is to have them go into the male toilets? That doesn’t sound safe either

it’s really odd to think that the solution is to push them all to disabled toilets too. Like if we pushed people with certain protected characteristics to a different toilet we would be having very different conversations

Maybe these men should take up any issues with male society - women's privacy, safety and dignity should not be pushed aside to pander to men who think they are women. Why should women be put at risk to protect these men?

Sex-based rights were introduced to protect women but now women's safety is being compromised - all in a rush to appease these men.
And the 'passing' argument is a red herring - in real life it is obvious who is a male and who is female, a posed filtered photo is not real life. In any case it makes no difference who passes, men pose a threat to women and have no business being in women's safe spaces.
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That doesn’t mean they don’t exist

And since this group loves to get worked up over teenagers and young people too, I hope they realise that their position also means that any trans females or female presenting individuals would have to use male public toilets too

If anything ever goes wrong, because you know there are people who hate trans individuals or fetishise them, then I guess oh well? Should have just used the disabled toilets besties x

A woman who thinks she is a man doesn't present a risk to other men, she is only placing herself at risk by using men's facilities. She's welcome to use the women's toilets but it's up to her I guess..

 

[pommobear]

Honestly, the things I care about most include being able to get a doctor's appointment, affordable housing, working full time and being able to sustain a decent standard of living.

I care about all those things as well as protecting the sex based rights of women.

 

[reCAPTCHA]

Well I have to say I’m surprised; I hadn’t envisaged that either Party would summon a policy that would entice me away from my intention to spoil my vote. But having three teenage sons means that I will almost certainly now vote Labour because the thought of them needing to sign-up to some hair-brained national service volunteering scheme once a month for a year is a bloody cheek.

I wouldn’t mind so much if the country was in a generally decent state (I’m not opposed to the idea, in principle), but honestly the fucking audacity of them mooting this policy in the current context makes me mad.

School funding is a joke, the health service is on its knees, public transport is unreliable and expensive, they’ll enter a job market with lower wages and a higher cost of living, with scant chance of owning their own home quickly. But yeah….let’s sign them up to 12 mths of weekend volunteering that’ll sort it. FUCK OFF.

 

[It’s The Truman Show]

NHS worker here. I’m passionate about the NHS. Also the welfare and care systems which just feel like a terrible mess. I’d also like public utility companies back with the public ownership and fat cars booted out. At my place of work the feeling is one of absolute despair at the state of the NHS now. Many of us feel it’s beyond saving and we see the stealth privatisation that is going on. It’s just so sad. But I think it’s gone too far.

If any party said they’d make the necessary changes to take ownership back of our public services, fund the NHS and care systems properly and sort them out, they’d have my vote.

 

[TooFarScone]

Seeing as you’re such an expert on sex and gender, how do you explain the existence and biological reality of intersex people?

You seem to think all humans fit neatly into either the male or female categories but that is far from the case, as I have just pointed out.

People with DSDs are still male or female
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What about the rights of trans women not to be attacked by men after being forced to use men’s toilets?

That's a problem for the men. Certainly doesn't mean we should just allow them in with the women.

 

[pommobear]

The toilet debate always seems to hinge on trans individuals who don’t pass as female. Yet there are plenty of trans individuals that do and the final result is to have them go into the male toilets? That doesn’t sound safe either

it’s really odd to think that the solution is to push them all to disabled toilets too. Like if we pushed people with certain protected characteristics to a different toilet we would be having very different conversations

I have never seen a man who can convincingly pass as a woman. You can always tell.

 

[pommobear]

People also seem to think that an ideal political party should represent all of their own personal views and if it doesn't then they can't vote for it. But if you're holding out for a party that aligns with *all* your views you'll never find anything that pleases you tbh. I'm gender critical, for example, which puts me at odds with a lot of people on the left but I'm still going to vote Labour because I'm not voting on a single issue, and I'll be voting Labour over the greens because I feel their position on that particular thing is a lot more nuanced.

 

[Blockster]

Someone kindly explain to me the difference between a man insisting he is really a woman and that everyone should see him as such, and a white person insisting they are really black and that everyone should see them as such.

One is seen as progressive and #bekind, one is seen as abhorrent (rightly). What's the difference?
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I don't know any feminist who *doesn't* consistently talk about this issue.

It's like I say feelings aren't fact. There is no difference if you feel black and you're white then you're mentally ill, same as if you're man and think you're a woman or vice versa, you need therapy, not life altering surgery or hormones that will never, ever make you change sex.
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The highest estimation I have seen for the prevalence of intersex is 1.7% of the population. It is a genetic abnormality and a medical condition.

People like India Willoughby, Isla Bryson, Caitlin Jenner, Dylan Mulvaney, and Elliot Page are not intersex and never have been. They are very troubled people who have chosen to mutilate there bodies in unspeakable ways. Bryson hasn’t even done that, he still (I am not going to becoming willfully stupid and refer to him has she) still has the same penis he used to rape two women. Yet if not for an outcry so strong even the SNP had to take note he would have been sent to a womens prison. Which is insanity.

Mulvaney is a gay man who now claims to be a straight woman. So it is therefore possible to change from gay to straight? I thought that was conversion therapy.

Read the Cass report as seen as you like experts and education. Is the former President of the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health enough of an expert for you?
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Indeed. Of the middle aged woman in her 50s who insists she is still 35…..

Good post. Back on track with the election nonsense, Labour are clearly ignoring the Cass review and will plough on with this nonsense and ignore women and girls rights. As you say in Scotland it took an uprising to overthrow putting a penis that had raped in with women, they'll be more of those over the next 5 years.

 

[Nelly's mum]

My god...can the trans debate be moved to the gender thread??

Why? It is a political issue that directly affects over half of the population, it has every right to be discussed on the GE thread.

 

[Nelly's mum]

I was referring to intersex people in this post, but either way, comparing the trans issue to anorexia is just absurd.

No shame at all thanks. I don’t share the hive mind on this forum, sorry not sorry.

Intersex people are still either male or female, Difference of Sexual Development. They are either male or female, just different genitals from normal - it's like a woman who developed inutero without an arm is still a woman
It's not like they are some rainbow/unicorn hybrid.

 

[pommobear]

How would you do that? Ask someone to get their genitals out if they seem a bit butch?

Keep female spaces as female spaces (and I don't really get your point as transwomen are always obviously men no matter how feminine they think they are - whereas even the butchest of butch women are still always clearly female).

Treat gender dysphoria as what it is - a mental illness, if I'm being charitable, and if I'm not being charitable, then a way for mediocre white men to cosplay at being oppressed.

 

[Miss Begotten]

Well, we're a week into the proceedings and labour still can't tell us exactly what they're going to do, or how anything will be funded.

The country feels confused. But what everyone needs to remember is that in the last few years so many important events have taken place that have contributed to where we are now.

Brexit; a pandemic that shook the world and cost countries billions; the war in Ukraine which affected the price of food as well as the large number of refugees we have welcomed to the UK; the boats bringing even more people here.

These things alone contribute to housing, health, education, work placements, the cost of food, etc.

And nothing whatsoever to do with 14 years of corrupt incompetent Tory government eh? FFS

 

[Moth]

I have voted for Labour in 12 general elections but have moved house since 2019 and this time will vote tactically for Liberal Democrats because only they have a (small) chance of ousting a Tory MP in this constituency for the first time in over 100 years.

I'm very frustrated with people who say they don't like the current government but won't vote for the candidate with the best chance of beating the Tory standing in their constituency because that tells me that they are prepared to countenance another 5 years of the incompetence, lies, corruption and self-enrichment at the cost of the vast majority of people.

 

[NeverEnough]

believe it or not some of us care abt trans people and their rights, starmer keeping the likes of rosie duffield and wes streeting around is partly why i'm not voting for labour

Which rights do trans people not possess?