Train strikes

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I agree the railways need modernisation.

One such example.

Sat on a train with filthy tables, strewn with other people's litter?

Union rules prevent on-board people such as the Train Manager from donning a pair of rubber gloves, carrying a black plastic sack and spending a quick five minutes between stops, from clearing the mess.

Apparently it is doing someone else's job, which the unions don't like.

Everyone rigidly has to do their job as per their job description, multi tasking/skilling and initiative isn't allowed.

Sundays are voluntary - it is not a contractual working day. All staff are paid time and a quarter for Sunday working. Even shop workers are not entitled to voluntary Sunday working, nor be paid a premium for it.
 
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If they manage to get the inflation pay rise they are after I can see many more industries going on strike. I appreciate that they have poor pay conditions but so do many many more industries! I can’t remember the last time my husband got a pay rise. Can you imagine if the local NHS trust went on strike? Lives would be lost, but nurses are literally on there arses, long hours, understaffed, poor wages, low morale. Teachers? Social Care? Paramedics?
 
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I agree the railways need modernisation.

One such example.

Sat on a train with filthy tables, strewn with other people's litter?

Union rules prevent on-board people such as the Train Manager from donning a pair of rubber gloves, carrying a black plastic sack and spending a quick five minutes between stops, from clearing the mess.

Apparently it is doing someone else's job, which the unions don't like.

Everyone rigidly has to do their job as per their job description, multi tasking/skilling and initiative isn't allowed.

Sundays are voluntary - it is not a contractual working day. All staff are paid time and a quarter for Sunday working. Even shop workers are not entitled to voluntary Sunday working, nor be paid a premium for it.
The Sundays are voluntary thing isn’t actually true. Maybe for some TOCs but my partner works on board and he has contracted Sunday hours.
Also some rules are awful regarding Sunday hours - some network rail staff are contractually obliged to work 18 sundays a year, on top of their regular rostered hours. Once you factor those hours into their salary, they barely earn more than minimum wage.
Also in terms of the litter thing, it’s more disgusting that members of the public refuse to clean up after themselves
 
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The Sundays are voluntary thing isn’t actually true. Maybe for some TOCs but my partner works on board and he has contracted Sunday hours.
Also some rules are awful regarding Sunday hours - some network rail staff are contractually obliged to work 18 sundays a year, on top of their regular rostered hours. Once you factor those hours into their salary, they barely earn more than minimum wage.
Also in terms of the litter thing, it’s more disgusting that members of the public refuse to clean up after themselves
I know three people whom work on the railways for train operating companies.

None are contracted to work on a Sunday. If they choose to, it is voluntary and classed as overtime, for which they are paid the time and a quarter per hour.

I also once said to one of them about the litter strewn tables on the train. They essentially told me 'not my job to clear them'. If you are responsible for a running train, surely litter clearing is part of that responsibility. It is not Health and Safety?

I agree it is the public who ultimately need to be responsible for their own mess. However, as we know some are just utterly selfish pigs.
 
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I know three people whom work on the railways for train operating companies.

None are contracted to work on a Sunday. If they choose to, it is voluntary and classed as overtime, for which they are paid the time and a quarter per hour.

I also once said to one of them about the litter strewn tables on the train. They essentially told me 'not my job to clear them'. If you are responsible for a running train, surely litter clearing is part of that responsibility. It is not Health and safety?

I agree it is the public who ultimately need to be responsible for their own mess. However, as we know some are just utterly selfish pigs.
It must vary on tocs, my partner works onboard at avanti and works Sundays contractually, he also clears tables. Train managers have lots of other duties you might not be aware of though, it would make sense to have additional on board crew to deal with that stuff.
Clearing tables isn’t the issue here, the modernisation talk is about cutting 2,500 maintenance jobs, it’s to do with the infrastructure not how the trains are run
 
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I know three people whom work on the railways for train operating companies.

None are contracted to work on a Sunday. If they choose to, it is voluntary and classed as overtime, for which they are paid the time and a quarter per hour.
The TOC me and OH work for.

Sundays are inside are working week. No way of getting out without leave and no pay enhancement

Thats what makes this strike so confusing to understand, everyone involved has such different T&Cs
 
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That old lie. THe union bosse themselves have disproved that by saying if they increased pay there would be no strike.


That's clearly aimed at me and totally misrepresented what I said. I said the bosses talking smugly about strikes is disgusting. And it is. They love it and the attention and power they get off on. it validates their position. Going on tv and grinning about the misery they will inflict.

That is disgusting. People who are now more likley to die because they missed chemo is disgusting. People more out of pocked and can't afford to eat is disgusting. people who's business will go under is disgusting.it goes on.

And no that Union misinformation you're repeating. journeys are down over 20% since covid. we already have the most expensive railway in europe. what are tickets supposed to go up? or are tax payers going to give more subs. no there isn't the bogey man of railway operators that can give more cash and magically solve it.

Painting a faux narrative that no one said doesn't help you. you are repeating union misinformation without any research. the irony.
Towards the end of May, passenger number in the UK were hovering between 86 and 92 percent of pre-Covid levels. This is information from the department of transport https://www.railtech.com/all/2022/0...rs-recover-to-90-percent-of-pre-covid-levels/. The “down 20%” amount is out of date and from January-February and does not represent current volumes.

The amount of tax payer money that funded furlough for private companies is significantly more than any rail subsidies, and yet those companies aren’t expected to pay the money back.
 
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I stood on the picket line this morning following a 12 hour nightshift. All we want is fair pay, to protect our pensions and no redundancies which would result in major safety concerns. ✊
 
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That old lie.
Take it from someone who has had a partner work for network rail for many years. Their rosters are awful. P-way in general are treated like absolute shite.

Glad to be walking away from it all.

View attachment 1359824

I stood on the picket line this morning following a 12 hour nightshift. All we want is fair pay, to protect our pensions and no redundancies which would result in major safety concerns. ✊
Proud of you!
 
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Kay Burleys interview with Mick Lynch sums up what is wrong with the media.

Let’s not blame the members fighting for a pay rise while the cost of living is increasing.
 
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@Jmx i support workers 💪 and I genuinely hope you get everything you ask for. The narrative that nurses haven’t had a pay rise either and are on worse money isn’t something this country should be shouting about imo. We need change.
 
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@Jmx i support workers 💪 and I genuinely hope you get everything you ask for. The narrative that nurses haven’t had a pay rise either and are on worse money isn’t something this country should be shouting about imo. We need change.
Thank you. To be honest, I’m not overly worried about the pay rise, of course I would love it with the cost of living going up, but I have to admit that I am fortunately in one of the more highly paid jobs and I will get by. The pensions and job loses are definitely a worry.
 
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Thank you. To be honest, I’m not overly worried about the pay rise, of course I would love it with the cost of living going up, but I have to admit that I am fortunately in one of the more highly paid jobs and I will get by. The pensions and job loses are definitely a worry.
I’m fortunate we have an agreed pay deal, I was recently balloted over pensions and t&c’s changing, although I was understanding the pension I was in wasn’t sustainable and it had to change I thought for the change of t&cs, yes we lost ‘some’ good t&cs but not all & we managed to get a better offer on the pension than they were originally offering.
 
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Thank you. To be honest, I’m not overly worried about the pay rise, of course I would love it with the cost of living going up, but I have to admit that I am fortunately in one of the more highly paid jobs and I will get by. The pensions and job loses are definitely a worry.
Oh of course, I understand the priorities are very different for this action - was vaguely replying to the general rhetoric of “ooh don’t they get enough money nurses don’t get that much” which is extremely facepalmy! Nurses can, do and will strike if necessary. Just don’t understand the vitriol with which workers seeking a fairer deal is treated.
 
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Aren’t many less people using the trains now though? They are nowhere near as busy in London, due to so many people now working from home.
Redundancies surely must simply be inevitable? It’s sad but it’s just like any other industry that loses customers and users.
 
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Aren’t many less people using the trains now though? They are nowhere near as busy in London, due to so many people now working from home.
Redundancies surely must simply be inevitable? It’s sad but it’s just like any other industry that loses customers and users.
The main redundancies that they want to make are safety critical roles, mostly the people who inspect and maintain the track.
 
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The main redundancies that they want to make are safety critical roles, mostly the people who inspect and maintain the track.
Yep, regardless of how many people use the trains (which was actually up to 92% of pre pandemic levels last month), the same number of services run over them. The timetable hasn’t changed significantly enough for less maintenance work to be required
 
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Railways in the UK are such an expensive and inferior alternative. As much as I'd like to use them more it's often not worth the compromise and I live in the south east.

They're so different to the railways of France, Spain, Italy, Germany etc which often seem reasonable and have a modern efficient service.
 
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Railways in the UK are such an expensive and inferior alternative. As much as I'd like to use them more it's often not worth the compromise and I live in the south east.

They're so different to the railways of France, Spain, Italy, Germany etc which often seem reasonable and have a modern efficient service.
The unreliability in the U.K. is due to there not being sufficient capacity for the number of services to run. One delay can throw off the whole network because the government doesn’t provide enough funding to network rail to build what is required, plus people kick off about new train lines.
The difference in Europe is that the railways are Nationalised. Privatisation was a stupid move
 
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I agree the railways need modernisation.

One such example.

Sat on a train with filthy tables, strewn with other people's litter?

Union rules prevent on-board people such as the Train Manager from donning a pair of rubber gloves, carrying a black plastic sack and spending a quick five minutes between stops, from clearing the mess.

Apparently it is doing someone else's job, which the unions don't like.

Everyone rigidly has to do their job as per their job description, multi tasking/skilling and initiative isn't allowed.

Sundays are voluntary - it is not a contractual working day. All staff are paid time and a quarter for Sunday working. Even shop workers are not entitled to voluntary Sunday working, nor be paid a premium for it.
The thing is the train manager/conductor is also responsible for tickets and safe operation of the doors and train in general as part of their duties, on top of assisting passengers etc. A lot of train companies had the bright idea of getting rid of their cleaners and are now desperately recruiting more. On some routes if you have a busy train you barely have time to get through one carriage checking tickets and answering queries before you arrive at the next stop, and have to go and operate the doors in a safe manner for passengers. So ok lets add cleaning to their job description (which by the way mild cleaning such as simply taking litter off empty tables and binning is in the job descriptions of some depending on TOC). How much time is being allocated to this task, and how prioritised is it over the other duties? Will each member of staff carry all the equipment with them in addition to ticket machine and traps (all train crew are required to carry a set list of items to be used in an emergency or out of course working, hi vis, relevant working notices, bardic lamp, flags, spit kit for when people spit at you etc) or will it be stowed on all trains for use, where space is already notoriously at a premium?

The reason the union is resistant to this is that companies will happily let you go above and beyond your job role and then use it as a stick to beat you with if anything goes wrong. For instance you could arrive at a station you are due to take a break at but your train is running late due to disruption and you no longer have time to take your break. Some people would say you were being difficult and not 'customer-focused' for insisting you take the break and making your next train depart late. However if you decide to depart on time at the expense of your break and there is an incident afterwards your failure to take your break as outlined in your terms and conditions for the safe operation of trains will be used to hang you out to dry.

Sundays are definitely not voluntary everywhere, sometimes not even the same in the same TOC. Sunday rules can be different for different grades and even different depot groups within the same company.

I am no longer in the RMT nor am I train crew (had enough of that after 10 years) but the strike reasons are valid. If the government had offered them the current deal no strings attached even 6 months ago it probably would have been done and dusted. As it stands they are offering a below inflation pay rise when other tocs got 7.1% no strings attached to essentially make people work more, if you are on a four day shift pattern that could bust on the back of these proposals and go to 5 days a week that's and extra 52 days a year work for minimal gain.

Passenger numbers are supposedly down but the trains are rammed. Also passenger numbers are so low according to the government yet striking also costs hundreds of millions a day? Surely one or the other. The government wants to shut all ticket offices, de-skill grades and cut the workforce. Boris alao says his reforms will result in lower fares for passengers. If you believe that I have a can of Jack Monroe Magic Rinsed Beans to sell you.

The entire system has been rigged for profiteeeing since the end of British Rail which wasn't ideal but it is hard to say this system is much better? A splintered mess geared towards returning dividends to shareholders, the ROSCO system making even more money for essentially nothing and no joined up thinking between TOCs in the interest of passengers. Could immediately save a fortune in executive wages if everything was brought back under the government and ran as a public service, not a private business.

As pointed out, it works on the continent. Succesive UK governments have always been short sighted with regards to the railway unfortunately, one of the essays I wrote for some Rail qualification I did was about how after the electrification of the Heathrow line in the 90s the industry let all the skill and experience of that project drain and be lost through wastage, so when more electrification was comissioned in the 2010s it cost a lot more than it should have in terms of finding and training personnel. Compare that to Germany who have a long term rolling plan of mix and match projects to ensure their workforce has an up to date skill set for any upcoming issues.

One last thing if I hadn't bored you to death by now, rail salaries and conditions are good, but I know plenty of people who are excellent at their jobs who are only still doing it because of that (drivers especially). If they deskill these roles and axe conditions, stagnate or reduce wages then we will end up with another skill drain/shortage because apart from the real rail enthusiasts a lot of them would happily take another job away from the railway if there were comparable terms on offer.

I know I was bored of being a conductor after a couple of years and was fortunate enough to move into a role that was more challenging mentally for me (and office hours, free weekends after so many missed life events due to not getting leave granted!). However you don't want someone who you wouldn't trust to make a cup of coffee in charge of evacuating a busy train that's on fire on a live running line. The government does because it's a lot cheaper.
 
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