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To give an insight my hubby has worked for Network Raik for many years in maintenance... they work long 12hr night shifts for piss poor pay with bare minimum gangs of workers etc. Network rail have said they plan to cut 2500 maintenance roles 🤯. There's alot more to this than "drivers". Workers are striking on safety grounds for passengers and staff alike.
 
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Folkevermore

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To give an insight my hubby has worked for Network Raik for many years in maintenance... they work long 12hr night shifts for piss poor pay with bare minimum gangs of workers etc. Network rail have said they plan to cut 2500 maintenance roles 🤯. There's alot more to this than "drivers". Workers are striking on safety grounds for passengers and staff alike.
Some of the comments calling staff “disgusting” are out of line. Last month the railway was back to 92% of pre pandemic passenger numbers and they can afford huge shareholder payouts apparently, it’s not “disgusting” for staff to want to receive a pay rise so they can afford food and rent. It’s not that they want a “huge payrise higher than anyone” as people are suggesting, they want something, and they haven’t had anything in years.
Honestly some people have no compassion, and read daily mail propaganda about drivers (who are ASLEF not RMT) and buy right into it without doing a single bit of research. Obviously railway workers are the selfish ones, not the evil 1% who hoard all the wealth in this country 🙄
 
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Folkevermore

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I know it’s hard if it affects your life, but remember a lot of those striking barely earn anything, work crazy anti-social hours throughout the whole pandemic, haven’t seen a scrap of a pay raise in years, with threats of another two years of freezes. The starting salary for a maintenance worker is £16,500 - not dissimilar to working in McDonald’s but with much worse conditions.

It’s frustrating but people need to fight for their right to afford food and a roof over the heads

Because they actually get paid very well!
This isn’t true. People online keep going on about driver salaries but drivers aren’t typically part of RMT and so aren’t striking. Drivers are usually a part of the ASLEF union

Hopefully a deal can be reached before those dates.

Maybe it's harsh, but when people strike over pay, I sometimes wonder why they don't find an alternative job with the level of salary they want. I know it's easier said than done, but I used to work for a company that raised its salary after losing lots of employees who gave low pay as the primary reason for resigning.
A lot of people have left, but railway has niche jobs. I plan trains for example - it’s not a transferable skill. And if all of these people leave, the railway will be in a much worse state
 
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Jmx

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I stood on the picket line this morning following a 12 hour nightshift. All we want is fair pay, to protect our pensions and no redundancies which would result in major safety concerns. ✊
 
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Folkevermore

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I agree the railways need modernisation.

One such example.

Sat on a train with filthy tables, strewn with other people's litter?

Union rules prevent on-board people such as the Train Manager from donning a pair of rubber gloves, carrying a black plastic sack and spending a quick five minutes between stops, from clearing the mess.

Apparently it is doing someone else's job, which the unions don't like.

Everyone rigidly has to do their job as per their job description, multi tasking/skilling and initiative isn't allowed.

Sundays are voluntary - it is not a contractual working day. All staff are paid time and a quarter for Sunday working. Even shop workers are not entitled to voluntary Sunday working, nor be paid a premium for it.
The Sundays are voluntary thing isn’t actually true. Maybe for some TOCs but my partner works on board and he has contracted Sunday hours.
Also some rules are awful regarding Sunday hours - some network rail staff are contractually obliged to work 18 sundays a year, on top of their regular rostered hours. Once you factor those hours into their salary, they barely earn more than minimum wage.
Also in terms of the litter thing, it’s more disgusting that members of the public refuse to clean up after themselves
 
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Ensay

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Hopefully a deal can be reached before those dates.

Maybe it's harsh, but when people strike over pay, I sometimes wonder why they don't find an alternative job with the level of salary they want. I know it's easier said than done, but I used to work for a company that raised its salary after losing lots of employees who gave low pay as the primary reason for resigning.
 
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Blueballs

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Pretty disgusting. They had hundreds of billions in cash to keep their industry afloat and want a huge increase in pay far higher than just about anyone is getting even tho rail numbers are down 25%. There's no competition so they get away fucking over the people that can least afford it. Hospitality needs all the help it can not another nail in the coffin. Everyone deserves a good wage, but railway union bosses grinning with glee over causing chaos is disgusting. But they love it 🤬
 
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conrea37

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I'm not a driver nor am I in the RMT but the press always blame drivers when probably 95% of drivers aren't RMT members 🤣

They've chosen the most disruptive week to make a point, but yes it sucks for the public. Glastonbury will be chaos to get to!
 
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Folkevermore

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My brother is a train driver and the sheer entitlement he has is ridiculous. Clearly thinks he is better/more important than every other rail worker.
It will be a huge piss take if drivers get bigger percentage pay increase than RMT members.
I know a lot of drivers and they’re all far from struggling. Can’t say the same for the RMT members I know. A lot of them are on about £25k compared to the 70k+ the drivers get
 
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PinkandTwinkly

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Yep my husband is p-way. He's handed his notice in... end of an era buts absolutely done with it.
I've only done 15 years in the railway and my other half 25 but the job isn't what it was.

Its not about money for either of us (he's had a pay rise, I haven't for four years but we don't have the massive outgoings luckily,) the whole environment has changed and both of us (like most of our TOC) absolutely hate our jobs.
Its made very clear by DFT and our TOC that we are easily replaceable and they don't really care about our welfare or safety. Very much if you don't like it, fuck off.

I'm not a fan of the RMT, they want to be seen as super powerful so call strikes to the detriment of their members (action short of strike would have been far more effective imo) but understand why there was such a big mandate for action.
 
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Nannycaff54

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My grandson is about to lose his job because of the strikes. He’s unable to get a train from where we live to his job at the moment. Get a bus you may say. The nearest train station where he can get a train is too far away to go by bus which would on a good day take 3 hours then the train would take 30 mins to get to the airport. He works a 12 hr night shift. If he had gone to work today(Friday) he couldn’t get home in the morning. He can’t get to the airport tomorrow as there are no trains. He rang to explain this and was told you knew the distance when you took the job. Yes he knew the distance and this has never bothered him but he didn’t know that there were going to be train strikes. The senior manager told him to get there or pay the consequences. No wonder BA staff are voting to strike.
 
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Nannycaff54

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My grandson works at an airport as an aircraft groomer. He was made redundant in the first lockdown along with all the groomers at Gatwick,Heathrow and Manchester. He has learnings difficulties and that was his first ever job and they laid on transport. He is now back working in another company who pay just over £10ph. This company does not supply any transport so he makes a nearly 2hr train trip there and 2hrs back working for 12hrs from 6pm to 6am. He’s willing to do this and pay the extortionate train fare. Ok, he hasn’t got a mortgage or major bills but he has a great work ethic. My point is, is that there are lots of people working in jobs that are low paid and they can’t strike. The travel industry is massively understaffed and people are slating the airport workers. My grandson won’t be able to get to work now so obviously he will have his wages cut for that shift but will still have to find the £300 for his monthly train ticket. Everyone deserves a liveable wage but surely there’s another way that doesn’t affect the ordinary working person who also need to pay their bills.
 
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EleanorRigby

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A lot of people have left, but railway has niche jobs. I plan trains for example - it’s not a transferable skill.
Eh? I can't think of a single job that doesn't have transferable skills. Obvs I don't know exactly what planning trains involves but it may include planning and scheduling skills, contingency planning, dealing with emergencies, staff shortages, keeping calm and able to focus when you have conflicting priorities ...
 
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Folkevermore

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And yet these train drivers get paid more than the majority of the country. Selfish so and sos :mad:
RMT doesn’t represent train drivers 🙄 do you really think train drivers represent the entire striking workforce or did you forget that there are a million other railway jobs out there?
 
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Folkevermore

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There’s a lot of desperate staff at the airports putting up with very abusive travellers working for a lot less pay than SOME of the rail staff. The government do not care about any of this . They actually said on air the people shouldn’t be asking for big pay rises. I do sympathise with the rail workers but I sympathise more for workers like my grandson who can’t get to work and will lose a big chunk of their monthly wage because of it.
Unfortunately it’s the last course of action, they’ve tried everything else. Rail workers have the right to withdraw their labour at any time.

If we should be angry at anyone, it should be this stupid Tory government who don’t give a fuck about the working class.

The railway is an essential infrastructure that is so important to the U.K. economy, yet the staff are treated so badly.

It looks like teachers, nurses, postal workers and bus drivers are looking to strike too. This is just the beginning of something much worse if the government doesn’t start paying attention the the working class

My last pay raise was 2019 and I spent nearly a year on furlough!
Mine was 2018, except I worked long hours full time, often with unpaid overtime, whilst everyone else was on furlough
 
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ASLEF, the train drivers union, have yet to call anymore dates as far as I am aware.

The RMT, as already mentioned, represent almost all the grades on the railway especially when it comes to frontline staff.

TSSA have got a strike mandate at some TOCs but not all, they are more management side and their membership take up is way below ASLEF and the RMT.

Like many things about the railway, it's multifaceted and complicated to understand from the outside. Which leads to people witrering about train driver salaries and ignoring the actual issue with the proposals: thousands of jobs lost.

Some services run without a guard it's true, the TFL DLR, the Manchester Metrolink. The Metrolink is the wild west without onboard staff prescence: drugs, gangs and sexual offences are rife, people are left to rely on the almost non existent BTP prescence when there is a problem or to try and resolve issues after they have already been a victim.

I was a train conductor for 10 years, I can assure you the general public are thick as fuck. My motto to new starts was 'you always think you've seen the stupidest behaviour ever then someone comes along and tops it.' Time and again this was proven right. For every seasond traveller who knows exactly where to stand for their preferred seat there are people who enter a station and their brain falls out.

There are also plenty of chancers trying it on. I have had to deal with on board mass brawls, a drunken idiot slashing his artery punching through a glass panel in the middle of nowhere, domestic violence, indecent exposure, I have been physically attacked by passengers and threatened. I have had to look after people including a new mum with a baby when a train has been stranded in the middle of nowhere late at night due to a fatality further up the line.

Recently, I was travelling back from Manchester Victoria when a woman was sat infront of me with her daughter was bothered by a weird bloke. He was drunk, sat across from them and engaged her young daughter in conversation before threatening to kill her stuffed rabbit. I immediately spoke to my platform staff colleagues (as I was off duty and had imbibed a few beverages) who ejected him from the train and the station. Jobs that wont exist under the new deal.

A good guard can deal with overcrowded services, boisterous passengers, undesirable elements and disruption as well as selling more than enough tickets to cover their salary many times over. On a good Monday morning I used to clear £2000 selling weekly season tickets.

The government and the train companies have a dream though. A dream where they get rid of all the frontline staff, especially competent people who can manage difficult situations, and have a few contracted in drones whilst passengers have to buy online or from a machine. If that doesnt work for you, tough tits it's a penalty fare. Booking offices can make tens of thousands a week even at smaller locations. Where will all this additional profit go if they save all the money they spend on staffing? If you think it will mean cheaper tickets I have some magic beans to sell you.
 
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That old lie.
Take it from someone who has had a partner work for network rail for many years. Their rosters are awful. P-way in general are treated like absolute shite.

Glad to be walking away from it all.

View attachment 1359824

I stood on the picket line this morning following a 12 hour nightshift. All we want is fair pay, to protect our pensions and no redundancies which would result in major safety concerns. ✊
Proud of you!
 
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Folkevermore

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I'm not sure how these strikes will ever end. Apparently revenue is down by over half now season tickets are bought far less. There's not these vast profits creamed off by operators.

Definitely sounds unfair that people haven't had a rise in 4 years, although pay rises along with changes in working conditions have been turned down. But the whole buisness model has changed beyond recognition. The only easy way out is to give more public money, but everywhere wants more public money and the debt built up recently is eyewatering - especially now as interest rates have shot up.
I’m a management grade on the railway and they seemed to have no issue finding a payrise for me or all of my other coworkers - and a fairly decent one at that.
They’re deliberately screwing over the front line workers who earn less than half of what management do.
I don’t know that much about the T&Cs changes to be honest, but some of them are supposedly pretty unreasonable.
The problem is, as with any privately owned company, shareholder profit is being prioritised at the expense of workers.
 
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I agree the railways need modernisation.

One such example.

Sat on a train with filthy tables, strewn with other people's litter?

Union rules prevent on-board people such as the Train Manager from donning a pair of rubber gloves, carrying a black plastic sack and spending a quick five minutes between stops, from clearing the mess.

Apparently it is doing someone else's job, which the unions don't like.

Everyone rigidly has to do their job as per their job description, multi tasking/skilling and initiative isn't allowed.

Sundays are voluntary - it is not a contractual working day. All staff are paid time and a quarter for Sunday working. Even shop workers are not entitled to voluntary Sunday working, nor be paid a premium for it.
The thing is the train manager/conductor is also responsible for tickets and safe operation of the doors and train in general as part of their duties, on top of assisting passengers etc. A lot of train companies had the bright idea of getting rid of their cleaners and are now desperately recruiting more. On some routes if you have a busy train you barely have time to get through one carriage checking tickets and answering queries before you arrive at the next stop, and have to go and operate the doors in a safe manner for passengers. So ok lets add cleaning to their job description (which by the way mild cleaning such as simply taking litter off empty tables and binning is in the job descriptions of some depending on TOC). How much time is being allocated to this task, and how prioritised is it over the other duties? Will each member of staff carry all the equipment with them in addition to ticket machine and traps (all train crew are required to carry a set list of items to be used in an emergency or out of course working, hi vis, relevant working notices, bardic lamp, flags, spit kit for when people spit at you etc) or will it be stowed on all trains for use, where space is already notoriously at a premium?

The reason the union is resistant to this is that companies will happily let you go above and beyond your job role and then use it as a stick to beat you with if anything goes wrong. For instance you could arrive at a station you are due to take a break at but your train is running late due to disruption and you no longer have time to take your break. Some people would say you were being difficult and not 'customer-focused' for insisting you take the break and making your next train depart late. However if you decide to depart on time at the expense of your break and there is an incident afterwards your failure to take your break as outlined in your terms and conditions for the safe operation of trains will be used to hang you out to dry.

Sundays are definitely not voluntary everywhere, sometimes not even the same in the same TOC. Sunday rules can be different for different grades and even different depot groups within the same company.

I am no longer in the RMT nor am I train crew (had enough of that after 10 years) but the strike reasons are valid. If the government had offered them the current deal no strings attached even 6 months ago it probably would have been done and dusted. As it stands they are offering a below inflation pay rise when other tocs got 7.1% no strings attached to essentially make people work more, if you are on a four day shift pattern that could bust on the back of these proposals and go to 5 days a week that's and extra 52 days a year work for minimal gain.

Passenger numbers are supposedly down but the trains are rammed. Also passenger numbers are so low according to the government yet striking also costs hundreds of millions a day? Surely one or the other. The government wants to shut all ticket offices, de-skill grades and cut the workforce. Boris alao says his reforms will result in lower fares for passengers. If you believe that I have a can of Jack Monroe Magic Rinsed Beans to sell you.

The entire system has been rigged for profiteeeing since the end of British Rail which wasn't ideal but it is hard to say this system is much better? A splintered mess geared towards returning dividends to shareholders, the ROSCO system making even more money for essentially nothing and no joined up thinking between TOCs in the interest of passengers. Could immediately save a fortune in executive wages if everything was brought back under the government and ran as a public service, not a private business.

As pointed out, it works on the continent. Succesive UK governments have always been short sighted with regards to the railway unfortunately, one of the essays I wrote for some Rail qualification I did was about how after the electrification of the Heathrow line in the 90s the industry let all the skill and experience of that project drain and be lost through wastage, so when more electrification was comissioned in the 2010s it cost a lot more than it should have in terms of finding and training personnel. Compare that to Germany who have a long term rolling plan of mix and match projects to ensure their workforce has an up to date skill set for any upcoming issues.

One last thing if I hadn't bored you to death by now, rail salaries and conditions are good, but I know plenty of people who are excellent at their jobs who are only still doing it because of that (drivers especially). If they deskill these roles and axe conditions, stagnate or reduce wages then we will end up with another skill drain/shortage because apart from the real rail enthusiasts a lot of them would happily take another job away from the railway if there were comparable terms on offer.

I know I was bored of being a conductor after a couple of years and was fortunate enough to move into a role that was more challenging mentally for me (and office hours, free weekends after so many missed life events due to not getting leave granted!). However you don't want someone who you wouldn't trust to make a cup of coffee in charge of evacuating a busy train that's on fire on a live running line. The government does because it's a lot cheaper.
 
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