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Folkevermore

VIP Member
As someone remarked the last week 'why are they asking us to volunteer to work the christmas markets (for free!) When they say no-one uses the train anymore?'
I’m a management grade and they’re constantly offering me extra pay if I learn safety critical roles such as train manager and dispatch and are willing to pay for me to have hotels up and down the country on strike days to do contingency work.
shame they can’t offer this money to the actual people who do the roles
 
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Yel

Chatty Member
Moderator
Railways in the UK are such an expensive and inferior alternative. As much as I'd like to use them more it's often not worth the compromise and I live in the south east.

They're so different to the railways of France, Spain, Italy, Germany etc which often seem reasonable and have a modern efficient service.
 
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Nannycaff54

Well-known member
They’re also losing money and jobs due to no payrises and redundancies.
I mean, they have the right to withdraw their labour, if their jobs are so important to other’s livelihoods they should be compensated for it.
Also it’s not really about the money at this point. Some of the terms and conditions changes that come with their pay deal are ridiculous.
For example they want to reduce the rest time between shifts from 12 hours to nine hours. Bear in mind most people (who aren’t drivers) commute into London as they can’t afford to live there on 25k a year, and so with that reduction of break time between shifts, by the time they get home, have some food and get ready for bed, they have to be up and getting ready for their next shift in five hours.
Another one is that they want to enforce forced weekend overtime at less than 48 hours notice if they’re understaffed. So on the odd occasion where staff do get a weekend off, they still can’t make plans or have any form of social life.
If it’s so important to people that they get to work then they can find another method of transportation, or put pressure on the government to actually come up with a fair negotiation
My family member who works at the airport all night doing a 12 hour shift travels 61 miles each way to get to work and home, sometimes, mostly Sundays it takes him 3+ plus hours to get home. He works weekends too. He doesn’t whine about it he just gets on with it. He does 4 nights on 4 nights off. He knows the train journey can be erratic so he leaves early to compensate for that. He’s also paid to spend 4 nights in a hotel nearer to the airport when the strikes are on. So yes it’s fine that he will more than likely lose his job this time as he has had disciplinary action taken against him for being absent after being told that he knew what the journey would be like before he took the job on. What he didn’t know was that there would be rail strikes. So yes, I will be angry about these strikes.
 
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IngressUK

VIP Member
Most TOCs are so desperate for drivers and give in to them on most issues (and would have already given in on this one if the DFT hadn't stuck their oar in!) I really can't see a scenario where they are trying to discipline hundreds of drivers at once. Depends what the union strategy is of course.
If being a Train Driver wasn't such a 'closed shop' occupation, then I'm sure many people would love the opportunity to apply to be one.

I unsuccessfully applied for London Underground many years ago in the very last public advertising for positions (<2010-ish). After that all driver jobs are now filled within existing TfL staff, no one from outside is allowed to apply for the positions. If you wish to be a TfL train driver, you now have to 'rise through the ranks' to be one. I'm pretty sure this is similar for many of the Train Operating Companies, unless you are an existing driver with another Train company.

How is this right, fair and non discriminatory?

The unions like to bleat on about unfairness and discrimination, however many of their enforced practices are just that.
 
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The other day ITV news was saying drivers were 'refusing to volunteer to work on their rest days' like it was an outrage, people not wanting to work on their days off! When you have done 3am starts four days running you tend to be ready for a day off!
 
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Government consultation on ticket office closures has instructed TOCs not to go ahead with their plans, which is a unexpected result!

Also I hear some TOCs have managed to get ASLEF to bring back rest day working which not only should reduce day to day cancellations but I suspect might hamper their chances of reballoting for further strike action when the mandate runs out.
 
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Folkevermore

VIP Member
My family member who works at the airport all night doing a 12 hour shift travels 61 miles each way to get to work and home, sometimes, mostly Sundays it takes him 3+ plus hours to get home. He works weekends too. He doesn’t whine about it he just gets on with it. He does 4 nights on 4 nights off. He knows the train journey can be erratic so he leaves early to compensate for that. He’s also paid to spend 4 nights in a hotel nearer to the airport when the strikes are on. So yes it’s fine that he will more than likely lose his job this time as he has had disciplinary action taken against him for being absent after being told that he knew what the journey would be like before he took the job on. What he didn’t know was that there would be rail strikes. So yes, I will be angry about these strikes.
Just because your family member is okay with being exploited by his employer, doesn’t mean that everyone else should be.
I don’t know why you’re literally advocating for peoples employment rights to be taken away.
Your family members employer sounds awful; disciplinary because he can’t get there? Why can’t they just find alternative shifts and get someone to cover his? Train strikes give plenty of notice to allow that to happen.
You’re being angry at the wrong people here. You should be angry at the employer that’s exploiting him in that way.
 
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Nannycaff

Member
I'm sure there was an underlying reason for that? Or are they just timetabling it as a massive waste of resource for a laugh?

I understand the views about 'some routes don't need staffing etc' but part of my job involves looking at the incident logs for the last 24 hours across the North of England and I can assure you the amount of stuff reported (never mind unreported!) Is eye opening. That is happening with sraffing presence reacting to it/reporting it so I can only imagine how much it will increase in a world where you essentially never see any frontline rail staff at all.

The points about non-frontline rail staff are totally valid but these debates always focus on frontline which is why I have focused on them. Start describing power box operation or tamper trains to a layman and you may aswell be speaking Esparanto.
Broken down train at Hampden Park, couldn’t be moved until a fitter arrived as the train couldn’t be moved without him. Missed the connecting train to Gatwick. Told to get a train to Brighton, boarded the train, then told to get off as no driver was available. Waited for another train. At Brighton was informed by a worker that there may or maybe not a train to Gatwick, all depends if a driver turns up. Finally arrived at Gatwick 5hours after leaving Hastings. My family member works at Gatwick, doing nights for just above the minimum wage and relies on the rail network to get him there. His job is now hanging in the balance because of these strikes. I agree we do need inspectors on board but unfortunately ticket offices in rural and smaller towns will eventually go because of progress. Many workers in various industries have lost their jobs because of progress and many more will.
 
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Folkevermore

VIP Member
My grandson works at an airport as an aircraft groomer. He was made redundant in the first lockdown along with all the groomers at Gatwick,Heathrow and Manchester. He has learnings difficulties and that was his first ever job and they laid on transport. He is now back working in another company who pay just over £10ph. This company does not supply any transport so he makes a nearly 2hr train trip there and 2hrs back working for 12hrs from 6pm to 6am. He’s willing to do this and pay the extortionate train fare. Ok, he hasn’t got a mortgage or major bills but he has a great work ethic. My point is, is that there are lots of people working in jobs that are low paid and they can’t strike. The travel industry is massively understaffed and people are slating the airport workers. My grandson won’t be able to get to work now so obviously he will have his wages cut for that shift but will still have to find the £300 for his monthly train ticket. Everyone deserves a liveable wage but surely there’s another way that doesn’t affect the ordinary working person who also need to pay their bills.
I don’t think rail staff really want to strike, at least not any of the ones I’ve spoken to. But the unions have been negotiating for over a year at this point, and the companies don’t care. Staff are getting desperate and are struggling with the cost of living and poor work conditions
Avantis parent company promised a pay out of £500 million to shareholders last year but apparently can’t even give staff a 4-5% pay increase 🙄
Network rail made 1.6billion last year but only offered a 0.5% one off bonus.
If your grandson has a monthly season ticket he can claim back a percentage of the ticket for the days his services didn’t run. He can find details of this on the website of whichever TOC he travels with. I know it doesn’t make up the lost wages, but he should still get his travel money back for strike days
 
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Warpaint

VIP Member
Will anyone be affected? I'll be travelling to the airport over June and knowing my luck it will be one of those they they strike.

It won't do them any favours with the public, and from what I've seen they've chosen the days that will cause maximum disruption
 
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mrsdewinter

Active member
Politically I'm generally in favour of unions, the right to withdraw labour, etc., but... ugh. It's another little bit of misery for passengers, at a time when most of us could really do without any more of that. I know being disruptive is the point and there's no real good time to strike, but there's definitely a shit time. Thanks guys.
 
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Jmx

Chatty Member
Aren’t many less people using the trains now though? They are nowhere near as busy in London, due to so many people now working from home.
Redundancies surely must simply be inevitable? It’s sad but it’s just like any other industry that loses customers and users.
The main redundancies that they want to make are safety critical roles, mostly the people who inspect and maintain the track.
 
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Nannycaff54

Well-known member
Goverment admits it would have been cheaper to negotiate a settlement months ago, also Transport Minister claims vaguely that modernisation plans would 'pay for themselves' yet the two pro modernisation experts they had at the committee wouldn't be drawn on any figures for that: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64317725
In all honesty this government doesn’t give a damn about every day working people. They’re lining their own pockets whilst they can because when we get to vote, they will not be in power anymore. They are not willing to meet up with any of the unions to negotiate deals. Unfortunately Mick Lynch (in my opinion) doesn’t come across to well on tv.
 
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PinkandTwinkly

VIP Member
Yep. On their applications people with say 'experienced shift worker' then you interview, and talk through the roster and they soon realise that they don't want to start work at 4am on a Sunday and withdraw 😂
 
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wideopenspace

Chatty Member
This summer I should be planning a trip to London but with rail strikes I can't be bothered. There's too much risk booking hotels, theatre tickets etc and then strikes getting called. They're doing themselves out of a job. Leisure travellers are using other options and I know people changing jobs to avoid the trains.
 
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IngressUK

VIP Member
The Sundays are voluntary thing isn’t actually true. Maybe for some TOCs but my partner works on board and he has contracted Sunday hours.
Also some rules are awful regarding Sunday hours - some network rail staff are contractually obliged to work 18 sundays a year, on top of their regular rostered hours. Once you factor those hours into their salary, they barely earn more than minimum wage.
Also in terms of the litter thing, it’s more disgusting that members of the public refuse to clean up after themselves
I know three people whom work on the railways for train operating companies.

None are contracted to work on a Sunday. If they choose to, it is voluntary and classed as overtime, for which they are paid the time and a quarter per hour.

I also once said to one of them about the litter strewn tables on the train. They essentially told me 'not my job to clear them'. If you are responsible for a running train, surely litter clearing is part of that responsibility. It is not Health and Safety?

I agree it is the public who ultimately need to be responsible for their own mess. However, as we know some are just utterly selfish pigs.
 
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