The Grand National

[Merpedy]

Certain horses would undoubtedly have been affected by the delay. You could see this by horses jig-jogging/sweating up, etc.

It was known before the event that there would be protestors and realistically if animal welfare was the priority, I'm sure they could have found a way to work around the protests. Instead it seems that they proceeded with the race as expected and landed themselves in a position where the protestors did their bit, the race got delayed, the animals got wound up and so on

Many of the horses will have had this as their target race all season.

You mean their owners, jockeys and trainers will have had this as their target race


I have seen very little on how the training regimes aren't necessarily all sunshine and rainbows too. A lot of articles about this are US focused or from animal charities so I won't bother posting as I expect responses about bias. Further, the industry seems to be pretty secretive

Does anyone remember the Panorama about how retired horses are slaughtered? You hear a lot less about it than you do about ordinary farm animals and the cruelty of that

Opinion: Evidence of cruelty to race horses continues to mount – how can we justify this as ‘sport’?

Compelling video footage filmed by Animal Aid shows that so-called ‘welfare’ rules have been ignored at one of the UK’s biggest abattoirs – enough is enough

www.independent.co.uk

 

[Miss Havisham]

Putting a horse in a race - knowing full well, it may die, is indefensible in my eyes. Nobody is surprised when a horse dies during that race - it’s set up to be perilous (to put it mildly). I don’t find that anywhere near acceptable.

 

[Ensay]

It was known before the event that there would be protestors and realistically if animal welfare was the priority, I'm sure they could have found a way to work around the protests. Instead it seems that they proceeded with the race as expected and landed themselves in a position where the protestors did their bit, the race got delayed, the animals got wound up and so on


You mean their owners, jockeys and trainers will have had this as their target race


I have seen very little on how the training regimes aren't necessarily all sunshine and rainbows too. A lot of articles about this are US focused or from animal charities so I won't bother posting as I expect responses about bias. Further, the industry seems to be pretty secretive

Does anyone remember the Panorama about how retired horses are slaughtered? You hear a lot less about it than you do about ordinary farm animals and the cruelty of that

Opinion: Evidence of cruelty to race horses continues to mount – how can we justify this as ‘sport’?

Compelling video footage filmed by Animal Aid shows that so-called ‘welfare’ rules have been ignored at one of the UK’s biggest abattoirs – enough is enough

www.independent.co.uk

How do you propose they could "work around the protests"? It's not like the protestors gave a timetable with detailed plans of what they were going to do. There were peaceful protests outside the gate, which were obviously lawful and wouldn't have impacted on the race.

So, in the absence of concrete information, they proceeded with preparations, assuming the race would start at 17:15 as scheduled. The protestors appeared near the Foinavon fence, far away from the main stand, which meant the Police had to be called and the race postponed, which then impacted the horses. They could only react to it when it happened - they couldn't have worked around it.

I know the concerns come from a good place. Animal welfare is important and of course it's right to be concerned. But hardly anyone is replying to @bubbadabut 's points, despite the fact they clearly have experience in the field. They're either ignored, or the odd sentence is cherry picked where people think they can point score, rather than dealing with the main substance.

 

[Merpedy]

How do you propose they could "work around the protests"? It's not like the protestors gave a timetable with detailed plans of what they were going to do. There were peaceful protests outside the gate, which were obviously lawful and wouldn't have impacted on the race.

So, in the absence of concrete information, they proceeded with preparations, assuming the race would start at 17:15 as scheduled. The protestors appeared near the Foinavon fence, far away from the main stand, which meant the Police had to be called and the race postponed, which then impacted the horses. They could only react to it when it happened - they couldn't have worked around it.

I know the concerns come from a good place. Animal welfare is important and of course it's right to be concerned. But hardly anyone is replying to @bubbadabut 's points, despite the fact they clearly have experience in the field. They're either ignored, or the odd sentence is cherry picked where people think they can point score, rather than dealing with the main substance.

The moment you have protesters at a big event like this the expectation can be that they will do something to delay. How you work around that is a question for organisers, but given that these groups often want a platform to voice their concerns I’m sure there is room for negotiation. Instead a lot of the broadcasters vilified them. I’m sure improved security can also be done without the use of force or other restrictive methods

As for your last point, chances are people are replying to the things they know or have an opinion about. I don’t care how much the event adds to the economy personally when animal welfare is concerned. Simple as that

 

[Miss Havisham]

How do you propose they could "work around the protests"? It's not like the protestors gave a timetable with detailed plans of what they were going to do. There were peaceful protests outside the gate, which were obviously lawful and wouldn't have impacted on the race.

So, in the absence of concrete information, they proceeded with preparations, assuming the race would start at 17:15 as scheduled. The protestors appeared near the Foinavon fence, far away from the main stand, which meant the Police had to be called and the race postponed, which then impacted the horses. They could only react to it when it happened - they couldn't have worked around it.

I know the concerns come from a good place. Animal welfare is important and of course it's right to be concerned. But hardly anyone is replying to @bubbadabut 's points, despite the fact they clearly have experience in the field. They're either ignored, or the odd sentence is cherry picked where people think they can point score, rather than dealing with the main substance.

The main substance, is that the race is causing harm / death to horses. To many people - this is not justifiable. It’s not the occasional fatality. The race is created to cause danger to horses - the deaths are not unexpected. Horses die at the Grand National, but some defenders of this spectacle are saying horses died because of protests. If this was the case, horses dying at the grand National would be rare.
The bottom line is the deaths are not acceptable. The race is cruel - there is nothing complicated about that.

 

[Ensay]

The moment you have protesters at a big event like this the expectation can be that they will do something to delay. How you work around that is a question for organisers, but given that these groups often want a platform to voice their concerns I’m sure there is room for negotiation. Instead a lot of the broadcasters vilified them. I’m sure improved security can also be done without the use of force or other restrictive methods

As for your last point, chances are people are replying to the things they know or have an opinion about. I don’t care how much the event adds to the economy personally when animal welfare is concerned. Simple as that

If they knew there was going to be an illegal incursion months in advance, then they could have adequately prepared, but they didn't know that. I think the only 'proper' way to stop a similar protest again would be to add razor wire to the entire length of the perimeter fence, which would prevent anyone from climbing over it. Probably not something they could afford, given you'd effectively be installing military style security.

It's disappointing to hear you're not concerned about people's livelihoods and local economies, especially given the tough times we're in, but that's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I suspect you may feel differently if it was your family and friends who'd be negatively impacted, though.

 

[MyLittlePony25]

Personally, would have just raced full speed towards the protesters. They would soon move and if they didn’t…Darwin Award goes to them!

The delay would certainly have affected the horses and the start was rushed because ITV had a time slot due to end at 6pm. Plus the loss of light…some horses don’t like to parade, others don’t mind, horses will also pick up on the atmosphere and tension.

Do I want to see the grand National cancelled? no, but I really would like to see less horses in the field to give the horses more space.

 

[Ensay]

The main substance, is that the race is causing harm / death to horses. To many people - this is not justifiable. It’s not the occasional fatality. The race is created to cause danger to horses - the deaths are not unexpected. Horses die at the Grand National, but some defenders of this spectacle are saying horses died because of protests. If this was the case, horses dying at the grand National would be rare.
The bottom line is the deaths are not acceptable. The race is cruel - there is nothing complicated about that.

Well, it is the occasional fatality, though. That's borne out in the statistics. Obviously no fatalities would be the ideal (no one wants to see them, most of all the trainers and jockeys). Sadly they do occur in low numbers. Note I'm not saying small numbers of fatalities don't matter, I'm just replying directly to your comment.

I don't think horses died because of the protest, but the protest did have a negative impact on the horses; that much is undeniable.

 

[TapToBoreMeRigid]

I want to see racehorses go extinct.

Treated like royalty...apart from when they're abused day/day out and shot as soon as they're injured and un-raceable.

 

[Spectacles]

I want to see racehorses go extinct.

Treated like royalty...apart from when they're abused day/day out and shot as soon as they're injured and un-raceable.

So you would be happy for race horses to be culled altogether and end up in cat and dog food? That's not putting their welfare first either is it? If racing is banned, everything goes, the industry, people's jobs and the horses will all have to die. There aren't enough places for them to all run free.
Plus Thoroughbred blood lines are used for breeding other than racing. No thoroughbreds no more blood lines.

Some horses are treated like royalty and some aren't but then that goes for riding horses too. I've seen a lot of people mistreat their own horses and other people's. But then others are treated like royalty so it's not just limited to race horses.

I agree with some points from all of the above posters. I understand how the industry works in terms of racing communities, jobs etc but I think the race could be improved by reducing the field. I watched the re-run later on and usually the first couple of fences are cleared fine but this year they were carnage and as the race progressed the horses seem to relax into more. You could see at the start of the race that the horses were really unsettled more than usual. Some were really sweating up before the start so the delay won't have helped.

 

[AnnRKey]

Wouldn't it be great if these protesters actually sat down and got into a discussion with the people who are involved in regulating the welfare of horses rather than try to glue themselves to fences etc., which is actually only annoying people who have zero input into such things.

It was claimed during the race footage yesterday that welfare and NH organisations have tried to connect with the protester organisations but not one of them responded.

 

[Sketchy]

It's absolutely bleeping disgusting and I honestly can't fathom how anyone can think this race is OK. I love horses and have ridden them for a large part of my life. You simply cannot truly love your horse and let it take part in GN. I would NEVER put a beloved pet in a situation where their life was at risk. I've heard all the excuses under the sun and they are all so flimsy:

1) they are so well looked after - yeah, so they are in the best shape TO WIN AND MAKE MONEY. As soon as they don't, they're gone.

2) Horses love to run. Yeah, on their own terms and often for short bursts.

3) Why do they keep running when they lose a rider if they didn't like it? It's called herd mentality and it's been drummed into them.

4) Horses refuse to run if they don't want to. Some do, but many will continue to run with injuries due to point 3.

I'm so glad the tide is beginning to turn on this race, the sooner it's gone, the better.

Bloody well said!

 

[Glaschelle]

Like a lot of folk, the National is the only time I put a bet on. Usually we also have a sweepstake in work but we forgot this year.

Have to admit, seeing the video of that poor horse going down making me wonder if I'll ever put another bet on or take part in the sweepstake.

I know they've changed a lot of the fences but they need to do more for thr safety of the horses.

 

[Sketchy]

The very fact that the British Horseracing Authority hasn't banned the use of whips altogether tells me all I need to know about how much they care about the welfare of horses. Money money money.

I wish someone would take a whip to THEIR arses. instead. Care more about animals? You betcha!

 

[Wifo1976]

The fences are much lower than they were in the 80’s. There was a horse called Dark Ivy, a beautiful white horse and a favourite to win who was killed on Beachers and it caused a huge outcry in the media. One of my earliest memories is of seeing that poor horses last moments on the front of the Sunday papers.

Doesn’t help that the music from the film Champions that they’ve always used makes me want to cry either.

I remember the pictures in the papers the next day too

 

[MyLittlePony25]

The very fact that the British Horseracing Authority hasn't banned the use of whips altogether tells me all I need to know about how much they care about the welfare of horses. Money money money.

I wish someone would take a whip to THEIR arses. instead. Care more about animals? You betcha!

Racing whips are like light weight and do not hurt when used - trust me, I hit myself with one to see. A normal whip however - stings like a motherf*cker.
Whips are needed for emergency situations such as if a horse is napping. It’s there to back up the leg, when the winner was idling in front on the way to the line, it backed up the jockeys leg. They are only allowed to use it a set number of times and in a set way and if they don’t, they are banned and fined.