Savanna Brockhill & Frankie Smith #9

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I'm not necessarily saying this case specifically, but I'd like staff from the pubs maybe, impression of how the girls acted together, if FS held her own, if SB seemed controlling etc. SB's bosses, did she turn up to work how was she as an employee etc. SB family members (obvs now in this instance they didnt have much interaction with FS), im just saying that its difficult in a case when the only witnesses for the most part end up being so close to one defendant, it can end up painting a picture in our mind that might not be totally reliable.

I'd have liked to hear from the dad, how much interaction did he have with Star, how did FS seem to cope etc initially. Idk just some people that might be slightly more neutral or give balance to the evidence heard by presenting a different side.
Star’s dad has a criminal record. He’s violent as well. I don’t think he’d be the most reliable witness and he didn’t bother to see Star even before SB’s involvement.

I think the point of involving so many of FS’s family is that this was primarily about what happened to Star. And they had more insight into her day to day life than anyone else.

The staff in the pub wouldn’t be able to recall anything of much significance because at the time they wouldn’t have thought it was important to note what SB and FS were doing.

I did also pick up on what you noticed though About all of them seeming to remember things differently.

I remember in infant school, if we misbehaved (usually silly little things) we were made to stand and face the brick wall at break time, sometimes for the whole 15 minutes and this was children aged 4-7… (this was in the early 00s, so 2000-2003).

I don’t think they do it now (or at least not at any schools I’ve seen) which I’m glad about, even at 4 I thought it was a horrible punishment. I can’t even imagine why you’d think of doing that to a baby. They just wouldn’t understand.
God knows why anyone thinks that being made to face the wall is an appropriate punishment for any child.
 
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That’s insane! I would’ve just started secondary school around that time and the only ‘punishment’ we got then was detention. Even in primary school, we had to write lines for misbehaving. Some teachers did shout a lot right in your face if you stepped out of line, usually the more old school ones.

You’re absolutely right, a baby wouldn’t understand at all. Even for a 4-7 year old it’s quite extreme. I’m glad schools aren’t like that now. Imagine being a little kid receiving abuse at home with school being your only safe space, just for you to get placed in front of a wall again over something stupid? :(
It is crazy. I think at the time we just accepted it and I hadn’t thought about it much until I got older. I remember I had to face the wall once because I was looking under a bench for someone 🙄.

Some of the teachers could be quite strict, even in them days. I remember in y1 when I was 5, a teacher grabbed my arm and pulled me up off a chair and backwards (the chair actually fell as she dragged me) all because I couldn’t do subtractions.

Hopefully all schools have changed for the better now.

God knows why anyone thinks that being made to face the wall is an appropriate punishment for any child.
Exactly. It taught me nothing to be honest, it just made me feel like a bad child, which I guess is what they wanted.
 
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Let’s not loose site of things please , it doesn’t really matter what clothing any of them were wearing nor the look in the eyes, two innocent children have been killed,
Yet again the system to protect them failed, that’s what we need to focus on getting a better system in place to offer proper protection,
The news today says at least 28 children are killed each year, we need more funding more training,more services to assist children in need
I think you mean lose sight. But how patronising. You can’t dictate to people what they discuss on an Internet forum.
 
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God this thread is becoming a cesspit when there is no live feed to follow along!

@LittleMy eye (see what I did there) agree with you- cold, dead, soulless eyes.

I don’t give a tit if SB wore gold Lycra or turned up in a mankini, it’s irrelevant.

She could be from Baildon, Basildon, Bermuda or Bangkok- all have deprived areas and also deprived people living in “normal” areas.

To all the regular, rational folk who comment- have a lovely weekend, I’ll be back Monday morning to talk about the live feed! ❤
 
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I really need someone to tell me how I can stop crying over Arthur, it has utterly consumed me, stars case is just as awful, but I don't know what it is about his that has shaken me so much, i think its the video, the voice audio and the thought of his poor mother and how much regret she must feel over her actions that led to her being apart from Arthur, she could never have foreseen it, and although she killed a man, as a mother i can't bear to think of what she must feel.

My childhood was awful, not as bad of course as Arthur or star, but there have been instances where I am reminded of my own time growing up, where I had similar things happen as to what happened to both Star and Arthur,.I just want to write some of it down just for my own sanity.

1. Made to go to the shop whilst starving hungry to buy sweets and crisps for my stepdad and his bio daughter (my little sister) to eat whilst teased that we weren't allowed any. We being me, my twin and elder sister.

2. Made by my mother to sit up late at night for step dad to deal with us for minor indiscretions, we'd be falling asleep and forced to stay awake.

3. Routinely dreading weekends and school holidays cos that equaled painful hunger.

4. Stole food from a school bin, Stole packed lunches of other kids, punished and shamed by the school instead of helped.

5. Sent to school dirty and smelly, socially ostracised because of it, shamed by teachers rather than helped.

6. Had to listen to my twin being beaten with a belt for eating a Bournville chocolate bar that belonged to one of my parents.

That's just some, and I'm gonna post this on my Facebook and shame my parents infront of everyone!!!! Not hiding anymore.
How awful for you. You definitely should make people aware of how abusive they were - it will help you to feel better. I would do the same. I’m sorry you were treated this way.
 
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What’s really upset me , on the fb group. People are saying they loved star as if she was their own. How bloody disrespectful to the family, no they don’t have a clue how the family feel. Yes we all feel sad, same as when any child dies, but not one can understand how the family feel.

I really need someone to tell me how I can stop crying over Arthur, it has utterly consumed me, stars case is just as awful, but I don't know what it is about his that has shaken me so much, i think its the video, the voice audio and the thought of his poor mother and how much regret she must feel over her actions that led to her being apart from Arthur, she could never have foreseen it, and although she killed a man, as a mother i can't bear to think of what she must feel.

My childhood was awful, not as bad of course as Arthur or star, but there have been instances where I am reminded of my own time growing up, where I had similar things happen as to what happened to both Star and Arthur,.I just want to write some of it down just for my own sanity.

1. Made to go to the shop whilst starving hungry to buy sweets and crisps for my stepdad and his bio daughter (my little sister) to eat whilst teased that we weren't allowed any. We being me, my twin and elder sister.

2. Made by my mother to sit up late at night for step dad to deal with us for minor indiscretions, we'd be falling asleep and forced to stay awake.

3. Routinely dreading weekends and school holidays cos that equaled painful hunger.

4. Stole food from a school bin, Stole packed lunches of other kids, punished and shamed by the school instead of helped.

5. Sent to school dirty and smelly, socially ostracised because of it, shamed by teachers rather than helped.

6. Had to listen to my twin being beaten with a belt for eating a Bournville chocolate bar that belonged to one of my parents.

That's just some, and I'm gonna post this on my Facebook and shame my parents infront of everyone!!!! Not hiding anymore.
I’m so sorry. Some parents don’t deserve children, I hope your happy now
 
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What’s really upset me , on the fb group. People are saying they loved star as if she was their own. How bloody disrespectful to the family, no they don’t have a clue how the family feel. Yes we all feel sad, same as when any child dies, but not one can understand how the family feel.
Yes, I agree with you. Another poster mentioned earlier in these threads that Star wasn’t our child / family member to love. The people gushing on FB obviously have problems with boundaries. Some people are so mawkish.

Re: the comment about what SB was wearing. I have noticed throughout the trial she does tend to wear various coloured suits / shirts. Not always but quite often and I think it can give insight into a persons character. It was an observation.

I’m allowed to have that opinion without being admonished for it and told I must not talk about it because it’s not as important as other issues regarding the trial!
 
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Yes, I agree with you. Another poster mentioned earlier in these threads that Star wasn’t our child / family member to love. The people gushing on FB obviously have problems with boundaries. Some people are so mawkish.

Re: the comment about what SB was wearing. I have noticed throughout the trial she does tend to wear various coloured suits / shirts. Not always but quite often and I think it can give insight into a persons character. It was an observation.

I’m allowed to have that opinion without being admonished for it and told I must not talk about it because it’s not as important as other issues regarding the trial!
I’m with you on that. At the end of the day, we’re on an internet forum discussing aspects of the trial. We are not the jurors (thankfully). There is nothing to read on a weekend so naturally people will want to keep chatting about it. There are no rules against it - this time next week the trial will hopefully be over and done with and justice served. As I’ve stated time and time again, if you don’t like something, scroll by. I think that pointing out how they’re dressed each day is an interesting factor and there’s no harm in discussing it - Dave Jagger does it every morning when covering the trial.
 
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I’m with you on that. At the end of the day, we’re on an internet forum discussing aspects of the trial. We are not the jurors (thankfully). There is nothing to read on a weekend so naturally people will want to keep chatting about it. There are no rules against it - this time next week the trial will hopefully be over and done with and justice served. As I’ve stated time and time again, if you don’t like something, scroll by. I think that pointing out how they’re dressed each day is an interesting factor and there’s no harm in discussing it - Dave Jagger does it every morning when covering the trial.
Exactly, thank you.
 
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This is probably a little off topic and I dont know if anyone remembers. At the very beginning of these threads I mentioned I had concerns for a ex-friends children. Well after reading about Arthur and followings Star's case I couldnt get it off my mind so Ive messaged the NSPCC for advice and potentially a report.

Im terrified it will get back that its me and also that Im wasting peoples time but I also think what if just one extra person reported Star or Arthur would something have been done? Would those children been alive today if more people reported concerns?
I had to do child safeguarding training at work and they say you might think you're the only one with concerns, but it might be that others have reported other similar things and it helps to build a picture. You're definitely doing the right thing.
 
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this time next week we should have verdicts in this case, I hope it makes national news like Arthur did and front page of all the papers. All these cases need to be spoken about. Something needs to be done to prevent anything like this ever again
something has needed to be done for a long time but what has ever been done? I’ve noticed with recent cases the comments of ‘lockdown has a lot to answer for’ blah blah but this kind of abuse happens daily, Covid or not, lockdowns or not.
there are plenty of cases to choose from and those are just the ones that have made it to the news. I read only yesterday about a 3 year old boy in the next town to me, Kermani Watson Darby, and his injuries are very similar to Stars. Described as ‘car crash like’. He passed away in 2018 and it’s just gone to trial. I never knew a single thing about it until now so how many more are there?

Health visitors rarely go out routinely anymore, so the youngest victims go unnoticed. I don’t want to get into a debate about homeschool but anyone can withdraw their children from mainstream education as it their ‘right’, so those children slip under the radar. Children IN school are overlooked (Why did nobody save Daniel Pelka?)
It’s literally a daily thing. So many children.

We can speak and speak and demand tougher sentences but what can WE do? It genuinely seems that unless it’s a baby of prime adoption age, social services really aren’t interested.

This is probably a little off topic and I dont know if anyone remembers. At the very beginning of these threads I mentioned I had concerns for a ex-friends children. Well after reading about Arthur and followings Star's case I couldnt get it off my mind so Ive messaged the NSPCC for advice and potentially a report.

Im terrified it will get back that its me and also that Im wasting peoples time but I also think what if just one extra person reported Star or Arthur would something have been done? Would those children been alive today if more people reported concerns?
It’s not off topic, is very on topic. And you’re right, they both would have been alive today if more people would have shouted louder. 😢 remember what AM said about linking hands to protect children?
 
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Does anyone know why there are only eleven jurors?

(sorry to repeat my question from last night but I’m aware of how quickly these threads move and that it may have been overlooked)
One got dismissed

How long does SB have to isolate now? I’m a bit out of touch with the ever changing covid rules.

if she tested positive last weekend does it mean she’ll be in court, in person, on Monday to watch ZA rip her to shreds?
Think its 10days
 
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Yes, I agree with you. Another poster mentioned earlier in these threads that Star wasn’t our child / family member to love. The people gushing on FB obviously have problems with boundaries. Some people are so mawkish.

Re: the comment about what SB was wearing. I have noticed throughout the trial she does tend to wear various coloured suits / shirts. Not always but quite often and I think it can give insight into a persons character. It was an observation.

I’m allowed to have that opinion without being admonished for it and told I must not talk about it because it’s not as important as other issues regarding the trial!
The thread can be quite heavy in the week, talking about the live feed etc. I just don't see why there is a problem when someone decides to discuss another element - not relating the the actual crime but behaviours in court etc.
Of course it matters what they wear in court.
The judge and jury are determining credibility. If someone is under a charge for neglect, then coming in wearing your scruffs are not going to show you in the best possible light.
If you come in wearing bright colours, it can show a judge that you're not taking the case seriously.

The judge/barristers come dressed formally but it's the defendants that are being judged.
The judge can quite rightly tell SB (in her pink suit) that she's been disrespectful - her dress wear, smirking etc will all be noted Aswell as telling FS that she has not took this seriously.
 
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I've given up posting on these threads on the weekends as they just have such a different tone from weekday threads when the debate/discussion seems more friendly and nuanced, and respects the wide-ranging difference of opinion.
 
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I've given up posting on these threads on the weekends as they just have such a different tone from weekday threads when the debate/discussion seems more friendly and nuanced, and respects the wide-ranging difference of opinion.
I don’t blame you.
 
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I've given up posting on these threads on the weekends as they just have such a different tone from weekday threads when the debate/discussion seems more friendly and nuanced, and respects the wide-ranging difference of opinion.
I think there was a sharing of this site on the Facebook page and we then had an influx of torch bearers looking for recruits to the angry mob.
 
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The thread can be quite heavy in the week, talking about the live feed etc. I just don't see why there is a problem when someone decides to discuss another element - not relating the the actual crime but behaviours in court etc.
Of course it matters what they wear in court.
The judge and jury are determining credibility. If someone is under a charge for neglect, then coming in wearing your scruffs are not going to show you in the best possible light.
If you come in wearing bright colours, it can show a judge that you're not taking the case seriously.

The judge/barristers come dressed formally but it's the defendants that are being judged.
The judge can quite rightly tell SB (in her pink suit) that she's been disrespectful - her dress wear, smirking etc will all be noted Aswell as telling FS that she has not took this seriously.
It’s fine to discuss whatever people want. However, it needs to be objective and truthful. I asked before and would ask again please provide a link or screenshot when SB wore a bright pink suit. She wore a pink shirt (it has never been specified as ‘bright’) with grey/navy trousers on a couple of days. FS wore a white top on a couple of days. I have baby pink shirts for work, nothing wrong with them. Yes she is an awful person for what she’s done but demonising her for wearing pink just discredits whatever people are saying. Same for FS, she is 20yo so a puffa jacket is probably all she has. The two of them are in jail and I am sure they don’t have a walk-in wardrobe with lots of clothes to choose from. Sorry not trying to be argumentative just objective.
 
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It’s fine to discuss whatever people want. However, it needs to be objective and truthful. I asked before and would ask again please provide a link or screenshot when SB wore a bright pink suit. She wore a pink shirt (it has never been specified as ‘bright’) with grey/navy trousers on a couple of days. FS wore a white top on a couple of days. I have baby pink shirts for work, nothing wrong with them. Yes she is an awful person for what she’s done but demonising her for wearing pink just discredits whatever people are saying. Same for FS, she is 20yo so a puffa jacket is probably all she has. The two of them are in jail and I am sure they don’t have a walk-in wardrobe with lots of clothes to choose from. Sorry not trying to be argumentative just objective.
100% this. To be honest, I don't even know why what they are wearing is reported on the court notes. It has no bearing whatsoever on the crime they have committed.
 
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new thread:
 
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