Sorry all - I’ve been out all day, but the timeline for the CCTV and those messages will be the morning of day 3.
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My mum told me to do it to my younger son when he went through a biting phase. I told her to piss off. It is old-fashioned advice.
I agree, she should have owned up to it instead of making out it never happened at all. She’s cast doubt over her word saying that.
Have you really got a whiteboard in your room with everything that's been said, or do you have a photographic memory
I hope you’re okay, I feel you may be upset/uneasy in this reply. I have to say I read your earlier message the same as the others too. That’s the thing with here though, it can be picked up in different ways.
It’s been mentioned alot and I’m doing the same thing I’ve been complaining about! It’s a very emotional thread but ultimately we are all here for the same reason.
It’s a very controversial form of discipline, I can see why she would feel the need to lie. If I was her barrister I’d have told her to own it even if it was a lie.
Absolutely, that was discipline back then and probably still is for many families.
FS should've just admitted to the things that she has done because she is doing herself no favours by claiming she 'cant remember'.
FS evidence alone is not substantial enough for a murder conviction, so the least she can do is tell the truth.
Just catching up. Also annoyed with KG and did think she was at risk of incriminating SB with her own questions. Thought a bit about the way abusive partners goad someone, which feels more fitting than what KG is suggesting.
Why is FS STILL getting tons of sympathy on this thread? SB probably did give her a hiding but she was constantly attention seeking and lying and is lying her way through this trial. Was she duck being brave.. She’s rough with a big mouth. She was vile to her own daughter and is passing the blame.
My heart just ached for FS when she was asked if she knew what a pronoun is, the barrister may as well ask her about quantum physics too, I think asking her a grammar related question was unfair. She doesn’t need humiliating because of her shortcoming, by goodness she has enough shortcoming, her murdered daughter.
TBF if someone asked me what a pronoun is I'd struggle to come up with a coherent answer... I mean, I do know, but on the spot like that, with everyone looking at me, not understanding the relevance of the question, I'd probably just stutter.
I think KG is just being sure of Frankie’s understanding of the English language in order to assess how to ask questions in a way that FS can understand them. She knows that FS has difficulties. I don’t believe it was to humiliate her, quite the opposite actually. Better she asks than to have ZA objecting to the question, and if Mr. Ali thought the intent was to humiliate Frankie, he would have objected. She’s not on her own in there.
Why are your replies STILL antagonistic, presented as factual and not particularly contributory? You may read empathy, understanding, reasoning as sympathy - but it's not the same thing. Perhaps that's why you're getting so frustrated with yourself.
It sounded like a very patronising and goading question. She's taken tips from SB by the sound of it
It’s possible to feel sympathy for FS as she was in a DV relationship. You are able to feel sympathy for more than one person in this case. But to be clear, it’s overwhelming for Star.
With SB and FS, we are only hearing parts of their relationship. Your comment of giving her a hiding just demonstrates you don’t really understand DV. I would be mortified if somebody described my ex attacking me as “giving me a hiding”. It’s not very appropriate but I know you are very clear on your feelings on FS.
Nobody on here has excused FS for what she’s done. It’s just that the evidence points to SB killing Star. FS probably did bite Stars fingers which is disgusting. It’s not an acceptable form of punishment at all (none is for a baby) but she didn’t kill Star did she?
I agree with this. Without hearing the tone with which it was said, how are we to know?
Because she was a victim, she suffered from getting beaten up having to tell SB her every move being isolated from her own family, how is that not enough to have sympathy for her? she’s a young vulnerable girl who’s been preyed on and lost herself and her daughter in the process. Noones saying she hadn’t done wrong and didn’t inflict some sort of pain on Star but if you read through and see how many people have been victim to it themselves it’ll make abit more sense.
I’m getting impatient with this cross examination now, KG is trying to trip her up to the benefit of SB. I want AM to start his cross examination, he is the one fighting for the truth for Star
It feel like she just thinks FS is a free ride to go to town on without any real clear strategy or direction. It all feels a bit schoolgirlish if that makes sense?
Just because people aren’t grabbing their pitchforks and telling them both to rot in hell, doesn’t mean we feel sympathy for them. It’s called forming opinions based on the facts presented. The jury have to think objectively, if we all thought with our emotions over our heads then we might as well burn them both at the stake and be done with.
It’s really hard to gauge from a transcript of the hearing. And unfortunately we’re going to read questions we don’t like and facts that upset us, as hard as that may be. A murder trial is always going to be difficult to sift through. At this stage the only fact we can be sure on is that Star was murdered, by blunt force trauma equivalent to that of a car accident, by one or both of the adults in that room; SB is claiming DV by FS. FS is claiming DV by SB. It’s very, very messy.
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