Moonflower
VIP Member
His arrogance going down well in prison then.
If nothing else I hope he has a lifetime of fear and looking over his shoulder, and never, ever for one moment feeling safe.
- Notice
If nothing else I hope he has a lifetime of fear and looking over his shoulder, and never, ever for one moment feeling safe.
InTheDollsHouse
VIP Member
I’m pleased Olga got to bury Sara. Sure she’s included that it was a Catholic funeral specifically to get to US, after his note asked for a Muslim burial.
There was a report in the Times I think yesterday, which said that whilst Olga and the children were in the refuge after she left US, Olga was witnessed hitting Sara so hard that 'she flew across the room'. Sara and the other children were also taken into care briefly whilst Olga was still with US when one of the children, (I believe it was Olga's son from a previous relationship and was ultimately taken permanently into care) said that he had been assaulted by US and bitten very hard by Olga. She received a caution for biting that child.
Whilst Olga denies most of the claims made by US in relation to Sara, which led to Sara and her brother moving back to US and BB, she admitted that she spanked her once. I also read a report at some point where it was said that Olga admitted that she had difficulties with Sara. That's why I have said previously that whilst Olga may not have been as bad as she was portrayed in the last custody court case -US may well have exaggerated the claims against her - I don't think she was a safe person to look after Sara and her brother either. The children really would have been better off in care.
InTheDollsHouse
VIP Member
YES
Two whole life tariffs now please
Two whole life tariffs now please
I think FM will get off, or get the lesser charge of allowing the death, and be out in a few years.
I don't want this to be the case but reading his barrister's summing up and I think he makes a good case that the hard evidence of FM's involvement is just not there.
There's a world of difference between justice and fairness and I think we often forget this. If 'fairness' was the aim of the criminal justice system then yes FM should go down for a long time because he was living in the house and as we've all said, almost certainly knew exactly what was going on and probably participated in a few things.
But the aim of the criminal justice system is 'justice' and within that, the hard evidence of what we all suspect to be true is lacking, so he can't be convicted of a bigger charge.
What's just isn't always what's fair. And vice versa.
I don't want this to be the case but reading his barrister's summing up and I think he makes a good case that the hard evidence of FM's involvement is just not there.
There's a world of difference between justice and fairness and I think we often forget this. If 'fairness' was the aim of the criminal justice system then yes FM should go down for a long time because he was living in the house and as we've all said, almost certainly knew exactly what was going on and probably participated in a few things.
But the aim of the criminal justice system is 'justice' and within that, the hard evidence of what we all suspect to be true is lacking, so he can't be convicted of a bigger charge.
What's just isn't always what's fair. And vice versa.
They used religion to try and avoid scrutiny, by covering Sara up in a hijab in an attempt to hide her bruises. They didn't seem particularly religious, but they knew they could use it to benefit them, and people wouldn't question them.
Batool also told her sister that she thought Sara was possessed by a jinn, which also has a religious connection.
Pavement1979
Active member
The timeline and BB's behaviour at the end isn't making sense to me 
Judges summing up:
'Sharif went to work from 6.25pm. At 7.15pm there was a series of calls from Batool to Sharif, followed by incoming calls from Batool’s sisters to Batool.
Sharif accepted he was called home by Batool who said Sara was sick and stopped at Co Op on route. There is further phone evidence that shows 30 voice calls from Batool trying to reach her family.
Message at 8.38pm from one of the children to his friend, saying his sister passed away and a 42-minute phone call from Batool’s sister to Sharif.
US said he was called home by Batool who said Sara was sick. He went upstairs and hit Sara with a pole because he thought she was pretending. Batool did not think Sara was pretending to be unwell. Sharif told the jury that Sara passed away with one or two minutes after entering the room and he did not let Batool call an ambulance.
Sharif agreed that when he came home Sara was very ill but no one had called a doctor.'
The evidence is that US beat Sara the night before, this caused some kind of catastrophic injury that made her unwell. He went to work, Sara became gravely ill, BB makes lots of calls to her sisters and US. BB's sister makes a long call to US. US then goes home, sees the gravely ill child, hits her with a pole and she dies within a minute or two? There's two things I'm not sure about:
1. Why is BB frantically calling her sisters and why are her sisters calling US and having a 42 minute phone call when US is at work?
2. Why would an adult returning home from work because his child is ill walk straight up to the room, ascertain this dying child is 'faking it', grab a metal pole, hit her in the stomach and then a minute later realise she's dead?
Make it make sense?!
I think Sara had a very bad head injury from the night before from the beating by US, no doubt, but maybe BB has hit her in the stomach and that was the straw that broke the camels back in terms of systemic physiological failure in Sara's body? Why else would BB frantically phoned her sisters and then her sisters phone US? Sara was on deaths door, 2 minutes from death and her Dad chose to hit her in the stomach with an iron pole? It just doesn't fit IMO. That poor kid - I hope the truth of her death comes out. They owe it to her memory - evil twats.
Judges summing up:'Sharif went to work from 6.25pm. At 7.15pm there was a series of calls from Batool to Sharif, followed by incoming calls from Batool’s sisters to Batool.
Sharif accepted he was called home by Batool who said Sara was sick and stopped at Co Op on route. There is further phone evidence that shows 30 voice calls from Batool trying to reach her family.
Message at 8.38pm from one of the children to his friend, saying his sister passed away and a 42-minute phone call from Batool’s sister to Sharif.
US said he was called home by Batool who said Sara was sick. He went upstairs and hit Sara with a pole because he thought she was pretending. Batool did not think Sara was pretending to be unwell. Sharif told the jury that Sara passed away with one or two minutes after entering the room and he did not let Batool call an ambulance.
Sharif agreed that when he came home Sara was very ill but no one had called a doctor.'
The evidence is that US beat Sara the night before, this caused some kind of catastrophic injury that made her unwell. He went to work, Sara became gravely ill, BB makes lots of calls to her sisters and US. BB's sister makes a long call to US. US then goes home, sees the gravely ill child, hits her with a pole and she dies within a minute or two? There's two things I'm not sure about:
1. Why is BB frantically calling her sisters and why are her sisters calling US and having a 42 minute phone call when US is at work?
2. Why would an adult returning home from work because his child is ill walk straight up to the room, ascertain this dying child is 'faking it', grab a metal pole, hit her in the stomach and then a minute later realise she's dead?
Make it make sense?!
I think Sara had a very bad head injury from the night before from the beating by US, no doubt, but maybe BB has hit her in the stomach and that was the straw that broke the camels back in terms of systemic physiological failure in Sara's body? Why else would BB frantically phoned her sisters and then her sisters phone US? Sara was on deaths door, 2 minutes from death and her Dad chose to hit her in the stomach with an iron pole? It just doesn't fit IMO. That poor kid - I hope the truth of her death comes out. They owe it to her memory - evil twats.
Miscanthus
VIP Member
Behind Sara Sharif’s smile was a life of violence and torture
The 10-year-old was sassy, bubbly and dreamed of being on X Factor, but behind closed doors she was brutally beaten. Why could no-one save her?
www.bbc.co.uk
The judge who returned Sara to her father knew about the previous allegations as he'd been involved in the hearings
Itchy of Itchington
VIP Member
Yes I'm so relieved all three have been found guilty including Uncle who thinks he could claim to be at work or uni all the time and not seen anything. Bollocks. Especially as they were in a one bed flat until they got into the 3 bed house.Just came here to say I’m so relieved at the verdicts, guilty of murder because that’s what they did. I think it is the best we could have hoped for with the uncle as well, so glad they reached a verdict and convicted him of something. Justice for SaraWell done to the poor jury! Bring on sentencing.
I think Urfan had 6 children in total. 2 with Olga and then 4 including twins with Batool. If they were in a council house then they would be adequately housed in a 3 bedroom place.
---
Shit he had three kids with Olga. Two known to Social Care when Sara was born and one found age 3 wandering on roads and in a shop of different occasions. They all got removed in 2014
One went back to US (presumably the older brother who texted his friend) but then there is another who went into care and didn't return to the family but stayed in care. He or she must be about 6 years older than Sara.
Behind Sara Sharif’s smile was a life of violence and torture
The 10-year-old was sassy, bubbly and dreamed of being on X Factor, but behind closed doors she was brutally beaten. Why could no-one save her?
www.bbc.co.uk
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Milliemoo99
VIP Member
Re safeguarding policy and schools, Having worked in schools ....I know you need to follow the correct proceedures.. inform the correct people, verbally and write up a written report.
I used to wish wish wish, there was a way of highlighting cases and situations you were genuinely worried about, and a way of getting social services to investigate without needing all the paperwork , in triplicate, to back it up. ( issues are I suppose that its easy for things to get lost in the multitude of actual accidental injuries etc that you see in a school population.) To me the fact that Sara was removed from school, just after bruised were seen and asked about, should be a massive red flag for further investigation by social services.
In this case, as Sara and her family were already known to social services, it would have helped if there had been a traffic light system, so that for instance when she was initially discharged, she and her family members were left say at amber, so that if any other instances occurred, including verbal concerns, the family would be properly investigated again.
As it looks like when she was placed back with her father and Batool, the whole case was completely closed.
Im also wondering, given how much of a liar US has been proved, whether Olga, Sara's mother was actually such a bad mother? Or if it was almost entirely US lying to the system to get his children back?
Poor Sara, what a horrible life she must have had.
I used to wish wish wish, there was a way of highlighting cases and situations you were genuinely worried about, and a way of getting social services to investigate without needing all the paperwork , in triplicate, to back it up. ( issues are I suppose that its easy for things to get lost in the multitude of actual accidental injuries etc that you see in a school population.) To me the fact that Sara was removed from school, just after bruised were seen and asked about, should be a massive red flag for further investigation by social services.
In this case, as Sara and her family were already known to social services, it would have helped if there had been a traffic light system, so that for instance when she was initially discharged, she and her family members were left say at amber, so that if any other instances occurred, including verbal concerns, the family would be properly investigated again.
As it looks like when she was placed back with her father and Batool, the whole case was completely closed.
Im also wondering, given how much of a liar US has been proved, whether Olga, Sara's mother was actually such a bad mother? Or if it was almost entirely US lying to the system to get his children back?
Poor Sara, what a horrible life she must have had.
I hope they never get out of the fucking prison!
Yeah US barrister even called his own client scum (or similar word) in his summing up!
YellowTail
VIP Member
I know someone who was offered 6 Hammond Road by the local authority, she declined on the basis she could not knowingly live in the house with her children after Sara was tortured and murdered in it.
Respectfully, I disagree with that. On a philosophical level, taking it away from this specific case for the moment.
The perpetrators are human too and I believe that all humans are capable of truly evil acts given an unlucky enough combination of genes, upbringing, culture and circumstances. I think it's difficult for the law abiding among us to accept that which is why we resort to words like monster and evil.
It's like Jung wrote, we all have a shadow self and only by acknowledging it and struggling against it can we be fully integrated and actualised humans. Like, loads of ordinary non NSDAP Germans were involved in the Nazi regime bureaucracy. Loads of ordinary Russians were involved in propping up Stalin's murderous regime. Loads of ordinary people rn are helping prop up endemic rape in the DRC, or horrific theocracies in Afghanistan and ISIS controlled territories.
It's a side of human nature whether we like it or not. I sort of think we need to acknowledge that in order to have any hopes of fighting against it.
I don't think so, I have read all of them and was interested to see that Qandeela was very against the idea of Sara being taken out of school and trying hard to persuade BB not to take that step.
Although, Qandeela also partly blamed Sara for being beaten by US, for being 'naughty' - whereas BB was very clear and emphatic that it was all US fault.
TBH I think the dynamic was Qandeela encouraging BB to be a good little wifey and try to keep her husband happy and smooth over any violence and conflict in the home. Coming from a culture which is very sexist and has regressive expectations of wives (although nowhere near as regressive as rural Pakistani culture) I completely get this dynamic, and unfortunately it's very common in conservative cultures.
Pavement1979
Active member
So many questions from that Times article...
BB had a personal driver? And US met her by doing that.
BB was in a relationship with a heroin dealer who was imprisoned?
They all lived in a 1 bed flat before moving to the house - what at least 3 adults and 3 children?
Their house looked weirdly clean for such a busy household?
Batool made plans to contact divorce solicitors but was discouraged by her sister?
A court order said that the child should live with her father and Batool...makes sense to give parental responsibility to a guy who had a decade long history of physical assaults against young, vulnerable polish women and the ostracised ex girlfriend of a big time heroin dealer. These people had x5 children and were of mixed ethnicity, heritage, withdrew a child from education and were a blended family. CSC should have been all over them.
BB had a personal driver? And US met her by doing that.
BB was in a relationship with a heroin dealer who was imprisoned?
They all lived in a 1 bed flat before moving to the house - what at least 3 adults and 3 children?
Their house looked weirdly clean for such a busy household?
Batool made plans to contact divorce solicitors but was discouraged by her sister?
A court order said that the child should live with her father and Batool...makes sense to give parental responsibility to a guy who had a decade long history of physical assaults against young, vulnerable polish women and the ostracised ex girlfriend of a big time heroin dealer. These people had x5 children and were of mixed ethnicity, heritage, withdrew a child from education and were a blended family. CSC should have been all over them.
HotesTilaire
VIP Member
this from the Times today - https://www.thetimes.com/uk/crime/article/sara-sharif-parents-father-stepmother-l53gmgxzl non paywall link https://archive.ph/HjkcR
Yeah I knew someone would blame a jinn. There’s often some proxy evil spirit to justify killing your kid.
InTheDollsHouse
VIP Member
Look I get it. BB was trapped in a relationship with no means of her own and she had a history of being isolated from her family and of mental health problems.
I know exactly how hard it is to leave an abusive relationship, especially when you’re isolated, but this was a CHILD being TORTURED. BB not only witnessed it, but took part in it.
She could have phoned an ambulance.
She could have phoned the police.
She could have told anyone at the airport.
She is no less culpable than him.
I know exactly how hard it is to leave an abusive relationship, especially when you’re isolated, but this was a CHILD being TORTURED. BB not only witnessed it, but took part in it.
She could have phoned an ambulance.
She could have phoned the police.
She could have told anyone at the airport.
She is no less culpable than him.
thegirlwho2020
VIP Member
That poor little girl, I hope this is some justice - although jail is far too good for them
Cammiebrett
Active member
This is probably one of the most horrific cases I have read, and my heart breaks for that poor girl.
What I really don't understand is why people are blaming social services but not the judge who made Sara go back to her dad? If he hadn't done that, surely none of this would have happened and I genuinely don't get the thought process behind it, because the judge knew the history?? It terrifies me to think that there are judges out there who will look at a man who has been repeatedly and continuously violent towards women and children, and think "oh yes, this is a man who should have custody of vulnerable children"
I don't know how that judge can live with himself, and in my opinion he is partly responsible for what has happened to that poor girl
What I really don't understand is why people are blaming social services but not the judge who made Sara go back to her dad? If he hadn't done that, surely none of this would have happened and I genuinely don't get the thought process behind it, because the judge knew the history?? It terrifies me to think that there are judges out there who will look at a man who has been repeatedly and continuously violent towards women and children, and think "oh yes, this is a man who should have custody of vulnerable children"
I don't know how that judge can live with himself, and in my opinion he is partly responsible for what has happened to that poor girl