Roe v. Wade

[petitspois]

I just read that this ruling will see more women killed in the US. Apparently, homicide is the leading cause of death in the US for pregnant women and those postpartum. Boyfriends and husbands who don't want a baby will take matters into their own hands.

Also, did you see the MP Danny Kruger (Pru Leith's son) say in the Commons that women do not have 'absolute right of body autonomy'?

I really fear for our futures.

 

[Lady_H]

I just read that this ruling will see more women killed in the US. Apparently, homicide is the leading cause of death in the US for pregnant women and those postpartum. Boyfriends and husbands who don't want a baby will take matters into their own hands.

Also, did you see the MP Danny Kruger (Pru Leith's son) say in the Commons that women do not have 'absolute right of body autonomy'?

I really fear for our futures.

Why does that make you fear for our futures? It’s an opinion, one among many.

Kruger was actually making a very good point that British politicians should not presume to lecture the US about legislative matters that don’t concern them, and about which they are almost wholly uninformed.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

I just read that this ruling will see more women killed in the US. Apparently, homicide is the leading cause of death in the US for pregnant women and those postpartum. Boyfriends and husbands who don't want a baby will take matters into their own hands.

Also, did you see the MP Danny Kruger (Pru Leith's son) say in the Commons that women do not have 'absolute right of body autonomy'?

I really fear for our futures.

Oh it absolutely will cause more death. Taking pregnancy death out of the equation.

Women who get pregnant who have partners who dont want them to be will be beaten and abused. Women who are in abusive relationships who could perhaps access abortion secretly and safely previously may be forced to carry an abusers baby or seek unsafe abortion.

Women who feel they can no longer live due to a pregnancy and take their own life.

Women seeking unsafe abortion which results in death.

Women who may abstain from sex from fear of getting pregnant, men will take it by force.

Its horrific.

 

[petitspois]

Why does that make you fear for our futures? It’s an opinion, one among many.

Because women should always be able to access abortions. Women's rights are being curtailed and they will keep picking at it until we are less and less.

How the US organises it's political system is absolutely something we can comment upon. That pack of old judges should never have the ability to make a change that the majority of the population does not want. Saying 'it's nothing to do with us' is just like ignoring an instance of domestic violence as we don't know the details. It's wrong.

 

[mcfeez]

Why does that make you fear for our futures? It’s an opinion, one among many.

Kruger was actually making a very good point that British politicians should not presume to lecture the US about legislative matters that don’t concern them, and about which they are almost wholly uninformed.

So - he criticises people for being vocal in their opposition to the decision taken to remove legal and safe abortion nationwide in the US, BUT he is allowed to stand up in the Commons and state the reasons he agrees with the decision.

People in the UK have reason to be concerned for the very basis that someone like him stood up and said that comment around women's bodily autonomy in their legislative house and made a statement that will no doubt light some sort of fire under the hard core pro birthers.

 

[nycinthesun]

I’m so angry about this. Men telling women what to do with their own bodies. It’s barbaric and woman hating.

It’s also not about the sanctity of life AT ALL. In a country where people in those same states are put to death and mentally unwell people are able to acquire military grade assault rifles.

While I'm furious at the men who allowed Roe v Wade to be overturned, I am beyond disappointed and disgusted in the women who are involved. Like you and most people here have said, this is not pro-life, not pro-baby. it is pro-control. It is anti-women. Pro-choice is exactly that; it is a CHOICE whether you want to continue your pregnancy or not. It is a CHOICE whether or not you want to save your life if you're having complications that can literally kill you. I am sick of people using their religion as a shield to restrict other's peoples body autonomy. Stop using religion as an excuse to do abhorrent things. And while we're at it, that religious shield is Christianity. As if the US Supreme Court gives a damn about any other religious groups.

 

[Lady_H]

Because women should always be able to access abortions. Women's rights are being curtailed and they will keep picking at it until we are less and less.

How the US organises it's political system is absolutely something we can comment upon. That pack of old judges should never have the ability to make a change that the majority of the population does not want. Saying 'it's nothing to do with us' is just like ignoring an instance of domestic violence as we don't know the details. It's wrong.

RvW was always a weak piece of constitutional legislation and likely to be overturned - Ruth BG herself knew that. And various Democratic governments over the last 50 years have had the opportunity to try to do something about that. Why didn't they?

So - he criticises people for being vocal in their opposition to the decision taken to remove legal and safe abortion nationwide in the US, BUT he is allowed to stand up in the Commons and state the reasons he agrees with the decision.

People in the UK have reason to be concerned for the very basis that someone like him stood up and said that comment around women's bodily autonomy in their legislative house and made a statement that will no doubt light some sort of fire under the hard core pro birthers.

Kruger didn’t criticise anyone, he said he knew it was a distressing subject but he didn’t understand why the Brits were lecturing the US on a legal decision to return the power of this decision to the individual states.

And he didn’t say he agreed with the decision; he said said that IN HIS OPINION the issue is complicated by the involvement of another body, but that he recognised most people disagreed with him.

Anyway I can’t see why what he said is particularly controversial. Women don’t have absolute right of body autonomy when it comes to terminating a pregnancy, do they? You can’t just get an abortion on demand, I believe it still has to be signed off by 2 doctors.

He is indeed “allowed” to say what he thinks in the Commons. That is the point. People are “allowed” to say things we very strongly object to, and it’s important that they do. He can say what he thinks - it’s ok, and the opinion of one MP that differs from the vast majority really doesn’t mean that the world is coming to an end.

I make this point because there is way too much hyperbole around this subject in both sides and it doesn’t help anyone. The blaming and mud-slinging and screaming back and forth hasn’t helped one bit in the US in the last 50 years, the lack of understanding or appreciation of nuance on both sides has been horrendously divisive and in my opinion that continual demonisation of the opposition has gone a long way to bring them to the place they are in today.

 

[Purrrrrrr]

So many are blaming Trump and not seeing how the democrats have allowed this to happen. They (Obama and Biden) could have stopped this at anytime (I believe they still can) but abortion has always been a vote puller now they are asking for cash to fight this and they will use abortion rights to get re-elected and "get women out of this situation"

They knew 100% this was going to happen, they could have stopped it but didn't. They promised they would, but didn't because they knew once they did , they could not use it for votes and donations anymore.

People are being played like a game of ping pong. none of them, left or right (except for a rare few) have your rights or interests at heart.
This balls is only going to get worse unless we open our eyes and see it for what it really is. Another thing to divide us all.

 

[NeverEnough]

So many are blaming Trump and not seeing how the democrats have allowed this to happen. They (Obama and Biden) could have stopped this at anytime (I believe they still can) but abortion has always been a vote puller now they are asking for cash to fight this and they will use abortion rights to get re-elected and "get women out of this situation"

They knew 100% this was going to happen, they could have stopped it but didn't. They promised they would, but didn't because they knew once they did , they could not use it for votes and donations anymore.

People are being played like a game of ping pong. none of them, left or right (except for a rare few) have your rights or interests at heart.
This balls is only going to get worse unless we open our eyes and see it for what it really is. Another thing to divide us all.

The Democrats didn’t do it. But yes they could have stopped it. The Republicans have been saying they wanted to do this for nearly 50 years. The Democrats did nothing. The Supreme Court made the unprecedented step of leaking a draft opinion stating explicitly they were going to do this. The democrats did nothing. Obama had a super majority in his first term. Biden had a super majority when he came to power. Either could have enshrined Roe v Wade into federal law. Neither did anything.

Of course a cynic might point out that with the mid-terms approaching and Biden and Harris currently having record low approval ratings and facing a probable red wave, this has certainly come at a….convenient….time for the Democrats to galvanise their base. So an own goal maybe for the Republicans? The Democrats could well gain politically from this. They will do nothing.

Ah the democrats. The Progressive party. The party which had a range of candidates in the primaries, openly gay men, black women, left-wing radicals (in the American sense), black men dating Hollywood actresses, Asian men. “Native American” women (well Elizabeth Warren anyway). And chose as the candidate? A septuagenarian centrist establishment white dude. Ah the democrats. bleeping hypocrites.

 

[LadyQuaithe]

So , everybody can comment on lets' say Russia but not on USA affairs?

Especially when conservatives around the world are feeling happy and bolstered after this decision of SCOTUS.

 

[mcfeez]

The Democrats didn’t do it. But yes they could have stopped it. The Republicans have been saying they wanted to do this for nearly 50 years. The Democrats did nothing. The Supreme Court made the unprecedented step of leaking a draft opinion stating explicitly they were going to do this. The democrats did nothing. Obama had a super majority in his first term. Biden had a super majority when he came to power. Either could have enshrined Roe v Wade into federal law. Neither did anything.

Of course a cynic might point out that with the mid-terms approaching and Biden and Harris currently having record low approval ratings and facing a probable red wave, this has certainly come at a….convenient….time for the Democrats to galvanise their base. So an own goal maybe for the Republicans? The Democrats could well gain politically from this. They will do nothing.

Ah the democrats. The Progressive party. The party which had a range of candidates in the primaries, openly gay men, black women, left-wing radicals (in the American sense), black men dating Hollywood actresses, Asian men. “Native American” women (well Elizabeth Warren anyway). And chose as the candidate? A septuagenarian centrist establishment white dude. Ah the democrats. bleeping hypocrites.

Biden didnt have a supermajority? The dems barely have had a majority at all in the Senate.

To be clear on Obamas too - his supermajority lasted only 72 days. So yes it could have be done. What is worse is he actually promised it then backed out.

Biden however couldn't have done anything about this so thats false.

 

[Lady_H]

It’s not just Biden and Obama though, is it? This has been going on decades.

I agree that people have got to stop seeing the Democrats as the good guys. It is the most banal and superficial reading of US politics possible. They are obsessed with identity politics, as corrupt as the next guys and in my opinion at this point completely uninterested in improving the lives of ordinary working people.

But generally in terms of “doing something about it”, I think what people are talking about here, what perhaps could have been done as a RvW “backup”, is passing a federal law that effectively guarantees a woman’s access to abortion. And there has been strong resistance to doing this from all sides of the aisle. Why?

The problem with passing a federal law is that it’s all very well and good when the law supports what you believe - but you’ll be a lot less happy if that changes in the blink of a new administration. So if you pass a federal law that abortion is guaranteed for all women in all states, you have to be open to the possibility that a new administration reverses this - and passes, for example, a law that enshrines conception as the start of life that effectively makes abortion illegal for everyone. That’s one of the reasons (I believe) that has made administrations shy away from federal law-making about this issue. If you think about it like that, it makes much more sense to allow that decision-making to take place at a state, rather than a federal, level.

So because of this, the whole thing has been balanced on top of RvW which is a very shaky piece of lawmaking, and everyone has known that for decades.

I’m not saying this is right or wrong - just that it’s one of the things that makes this such a contentious and difficult issue in the US in a way that it isn’t in the U.K.

Now people like Meghan Markle and Gloria Steinem are talking about getting the Equal Rights Amendment (legal equality of the sexes) finally ratified in response to the RvW situation. That’s a battle that’s been fought for the last 100 years and at various times in its history EVERYONE has had a go at blocking it - Democrats, Republicans, progressives and conservatives. So good luck with that!

 

[IngressUK]

The BMA saying that American women are free to come here and get an abortion on the NHS.

Err, NO!

The NHS is stretched enough as it is, without dealing with the fallout of a stupid U.S decision. Which is not the responsibility of the UK NHS to resolve.

Who exactly will pay for all these abortions? The hard pressed UK taxpayer of course.

The BMA really are a bunch of clueless idiots.

 

[mcfeez]

The BMA saying that American women are free to come here and get an abortion on the NHS.

Err, NO!

The NHS is stretched enough as it is, without dealing with the fallout of a stupid U.S decision. Which is not the responsibility of the UK NHS to resolve.

Who exactly will pay for all these abortions? The hard pressed UK taxpayer of course.

The BMA really are a bunch of clueless idiots.

The women most likely to be affected by the Roe v Wade decision are those in financial difficulty i.e. unable to travel to other places within the US to get an abortion. Nevermind an international flight - some may not even have a passport.

 

[IngressUK]

The women most likely to be affected by the Roe v Wade decision are those in financial difficulty i.e. unable to travel to other places within the US to get an abortion. Nevermind an international flight - some may not even have a passport.

Regardless.

It is not for the BMA to decide that those affected by the Roe Vs Wade situation can have an abortion on the NHS.

The NHS is falling apart as it is, without taking on the medical ills of the rest of the world - especially one of a supposedly first world country.

 

[Lady_H]

The BMA saying that American women are free to come here and get an abortion on the NHS.

Err, NO!

The NHS is stretched enough as it is, without dealing with the fallout of a stupid U.S decision. Which is not the responsibility of the UK NHS to resolve.

Who exactly will pay for all these abortions? The hard pressed UK taxpayer of course.

The BMA really are a bunch of clueless idiots.

This is what I mean about hyperbole and excessive outrage and where it leads. Legal decisions made in the US are not our business and not our fight. The American Medical Association is rolling in money - they can provide free abortions in different states if they feel so strongly about it. Why the F does that BMA have to get involved at all? What is it about this issue that drives people completely crazy?

 

[Slaybutter]

This is what I mean about hyperbole and excessive outrage and where it leads. Legal decisions made in the US are not our business and not our fight. The American Medical Association is rolling in money - they can provide free abortions in different states if they feel so strongly about it. Why the F does that BMA have to get involved at all? What is it about this issue that drives people completely crazy?

Respectfully disagree — it goes to attitude and what’s acceptable in the global west and (so-called, in the US’ case) first world countries. You’re fine ignoring it but not everyone else will be doing the same. The repeal of Roe v. Wade will encourage anyone seeking to curtail women’s rights in the UK.

I was shocked reading this -https://www.marieclaire.com/politics/justice-clarence-thomas-lgbtq-rights-contraception-next/

Clarence Thomas who sexually harassed Anita Hill should be the last person policing morality.

 

[kalechips]

I've just come across a post on reddit, where a woman's pharmacist warned her that she might soon no longer have access to her prescription anti-depressants, or any prescription that has even the slightest chance of causing a miscarriage. This would be for all women, not just pregnant women. I'm not in the US but I'm bleeping horrified and I weep for every woman in America (should we just call it Gilead now?)...I can't fathom how any of this is happening.

 

[nycinthesun]

There's discussion over whether or not IVF will take a hit next as well. Nothing has happened with that yet, but I hate that it's even been brought up. You're damned if you don't want a baby and you're damned if you try to have one!

 

[kalechips]

There's discussion over whether or not IVF will take a hit next as well. Nothing has happened with that yet, but I hate that it's even been brought up. You're damned if you don't want a baby and you're damned if you try to have one!

I wonder if they'll make tubal ligation and hysterectomy even more difficult than it already is