Preston Davey Trial

[TheMiceInTheShed]

Do they have to be sure of this, or is it sufficient to have planned to commit an assault that has the probability to kill?

I suppose im thinking of the sentences the killers of Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo- Hughes got. I doubt they actively planned murder, but their deliberate and intentional actions caused death.

You are supposed to think it was intended either intentionally "beyond reasonable doubt" OR that you it is "beyond reasonable doubt" that you should have been aware that your actions were likely to cause death and you were reckless and didn't give a toss, I think.

Personally, I think the foul POS had been prolonging the distress for poor little Preston - starting at comparatively short periods of abuse and torture and getting progressively long as he gained confidence and got away with it time and again. I think he believed that Preston would choke, and have a fit every time - perhaps even "get used to it" and developing some sort of iresistance, and that he could prolong his own vile pleasure and that Preston would still (eventually) recover and start breathing again.

This is my opinion, of course - I have no idea what goes through the mind of someone like this, who gets a kick from torturing and abusing a helpless infant. He wouldn't have given a damn if Preston had ended up severely brain-damaged for lack of oxygen (it might even have been a bonus for him - then Preston could never tell). IMO he was uncaring and reckless in the way he abused that poor baby, and intentionally allowed him to die by not taking him to hospital the moment he realised that he wasn't going to breathe properly again. Instead he filmed it and let that baby suffer for God alone knows how long? An hour? Something like that - and only took him to hospital when it was too late, and he'd had time to fabricate a cover story with the other POS, and they'd destroyed or hidden all the evidence they could find.

This is murder, and in the most dreadful and cruel way imaginable.

 

[upyernelly]

You are a social worker with becky jones as your profile picture.... says alot about the type of person you are aswell. Sorry but all social in my eyes are just as bad, liars and manipulators ! They need to be held accountable.

Weird - but ok. Your feelings are valid.

 

[upyernelly]

Thank you - this is especially significant that you, "in the trade" so to speak, have stated this. It's obvious, but so many people feel that because there are written safeguards they are always adhered to. To me the fact that she texted/e-mailed heart emojis tells the world that she wasn't acting in a professional manner.

I agree. Our managers run a tight ship and we’re audited regularly. Different areas have different budgets - and different managers iyswim.
I do think it is very difficult for sw who work in areas where there is great deprevation and low funding and poor management. There is a fear that whistleblowers could lose their jobs etc. I have colleagues who are the main breadwinners and wear dressing gowns on the house because they can’t afford to put the heating on. Lots of women who work these jobs keep their heads down and try their best to work in a system that is seriously flawed under great pressure.

 

[IGiveUp22]

A few points have stood out to me amongst all the horror;

JMF said that JV had left his key in the front door, so JMF couldn't open the door, he said JV often did this - why did he do this?

There are a several resentful texts from JV to JMF - ' looking after your son' 'when are you coming home' 'your son' type of comments. Was the abuse of Preston some weird dynamic between them, with JV using the abuse to control JMF?

The key in the door thing - we do this at home so that I don’t find mega unusual on its own. Under the circumstances, does seem like he didn’t want JMF to be able to just walk in the house without him knowing. Does this then point to JMF not knowing about the abuse? (Thinking out loud here).

Your second point was something I picked up on. I am wondering if his defence is going to be along these lines you know…which I think if this was the defence, I might be likely they’d both have to take the stand. I will be interested to see if their relationship is spoken about; their sex life could be relevant but these could also be things to come out after the trial.
I know in my previous job (police investigator of DA) when there were sexual elements of a crime, we would have to question their “usual” sex life/preferences. I never dealt with child sex offences though so not sure if those types of questions wouldn’t be asked.

 

[Lyla001]

Do they have to be sure of this, or is it sufficient to have planned to commit an assault that has the probability to kill?

I suppose im thinking of the sentences the killers of Star Hobson and Arthur Labinjo- Hughes got. I doubt they actively planned murder, but their deliberate and intentional actions caused death.

Yes, I understand what you mean. I think this explains it pretty well.

 

[nothinonyou]

You are supposed to think it was intended either intentionally "beyond reasonable doubt" OR that you it is "beyond reasonable doubt" that you should have been aware that your actions were likely to cause death and you were reckless and didn't give a toss, I think.

Personally, I think the foul POS had been prolonging the distress for poor little Preston - starting at comparatively short periods of abuse and torture and getting progressively long as he gained confidence and got away with it time and again. I think he believed that Preston would choke, and have a fit every time - perhaps even "get used to it" and developing some sort of iresistance, and that he could prolong his own vile pleasure and that Preston would still (eventually) recover and start breathing again.

This is my opinion, of course - I have no idea what goes through the mind of someone like this, who gets a kick from torturing and abusing a helpless infant. He wouldn't have given a damn if Preston had ended up severely brain-damaged for lack of oxygen (it might even have been a bonus for him - then Preston could never tell). IMO he was uncaring and reckless in the way he abused that poor baby, and intentionally allowed him to die by not taking him to hospital the moment he realised that he wasn't going to breathe properly again. Instead he filmed it and let that baby suffer for God alone knows how long? An hour? Something like that - and only took him to hospital when it was too late, and he'd had time to fabricate a cover story with the other POS, and they'd destroyed or hidden all the evidence they could find.

This is murder, and in the most dreadful and cruel way imaginable.

Yeah it definitely doesn't have to be premeditated (I think that's an America term?) just that any reasonable person would know your actions will likely kill somebody, that's murder

 

[Jayneh2020]

The key in the door thing - we do this at home so that I don’t find mega unusual on its own. Under the circumstances, does seem like he didn’t want JMF to be able to just walk in the house without him knowing. Does this then point to JMF not knowing about the abuse? (Thinking out loud here).

Your second point was something I picked up on. I am wondering if his defence is going to be along these lines you know…which I think if this was the defence, I might be likely they’d both have to take the stand. I will be interested to see if their relationship is spoken about; their sex life could be relevant but these could also be things to come out after the trial.
I know in my previous job (police investigator of DA) when there were sexual elements of a crime, we would have to question their “usual” sex life/preferences. I never dealt with child sex offences though so not sure if those types of questions wouldn’t be asked.

I thought about JMF was he actually aware of what was going on given the fact they headed straight to hospital on his arrival and keys in door but then they must have some sort of evidence of him with the sexual assault charge, the sperm on cot i suppose could be explained depending on how close it was to there own bed or if he had it on his hands then put his hands on the cot etc... all the messages saying things like I have strangled your child and hes sick of him working away etc makes me think he wasn't aware of the full extent and maybe resentment kicked in but who knows this is why I think alot more is going to come out about him for him to be remanded they must have very strong evidence

 

[Itchy of Itchington]

To be murder the intent has to be to kill or do serious harm.

"The suspect's act must be a substantial cause of the death, not necessarily the sole or principal cause" from

Homicide: Murder, manslaughter, infanticide and causing or allowing the death or serious injury of a child or vulnerable adult | The Crown Prosecution Service

www.cps.gov.uk

The CPS will have made the decision on the charges and feel fairly confident in them. What could Varley claim "I was only sexually abusing him but didn't mean for him to die" nope. It is the same as if you push someone and they fall under a train. You might not have meant then to die but your actions caused the harm.

 

[Shinythings]

You are a social worker with becky jones as your profile picture.... says alot about the type of person you are aswell. Sorry but all social in my eyes are just as bad, liars and manipulators ! They need to be held accountable.

There's many excellent SW out there doing unimaginably hard work. There are also some bad eggs, like any profession. I imagine there are also a lot of people who think negatively of them because they got their child taken 'for no reason' which is inevitably balls. You don't hear about the ones doing an amazing job because they aren't newsworthy.

I'm not a social worker, to be clear.

 

[Tofino]

I’ve only read and the first episode of the trial podcast and I think JMF will find it hard to defend he had no idea JV was causing harm. There is evidence of him receiving videos/images and associated messages from JV plus the level of injuries, the delays seeking medical attention etc show he wasn’t acting to protect Preston. Even if JMF was controlled and coerced by JV (just as a hypothetical example) that won’t be a good enough defence for causing or allowing the death of a child.

This is probably the worst case I’ve ever heard of. That poor baby was tortured time and time again and died in one of the worst ways possible. I have total faith in the jury.

 

[O'lee]

Peter Wright KC is the real deal, one of the very best. He’ll rip these two creatures to shreds if they decide to give evidence.

 

[Jayneh2020]

There's many excellent SW out there doing unimaginably hard work. There are also some bad eggs, like any profession. I imagine there are also a lot of people who think negatively of them because they got their child taken 'for no reason' which is inevitably balls. You don't hear about the ones doing an amazing job because they aren't newsworthy.

I'm not a social worker, to be clear.

Yeah ok I get they might be some good social workers out there, my point is there is a professional social worker on here with a profile picture of becky jones which I dont find very nice to be honest. I can imagine what type of social worker she is... why have this type of image as your profile given her profession I dont understand its unprofessional and very much like a troll... but ok they are not all as bad.

 

[nothinonyou]

New podcast episode is out. The description of Preston having a poo in the bath is so weird and perverted , that poor little boy .
JV is also giggling quite a bit in interviews, it's all a massive laugh isn't it

 

[Jen667]

The problem with social work is that, understandably, we only hear about the disasters. When it goes horribly wrong and a child dies it's horrific and it's only right that the profession is scrutinised and those that failed to do their jobs are investigated.

What we don't hear about, are all the times social services get it right and intervene to remove children from dangerous situations and save their lives. These occasions will massively outweigh the other.

 

[MmmB777]

I’ve only read and the first episode of the trial podcast and I think JMF will find it hard to defend he had no idea JV was causing harm. There is evidence of him receiving videos/images and associated messages from JV plus the level of injuries, the delays seeking medical attention etc show he wasn’t acting to protect Preston. Even if JMF was controlled and coerced by JV (just as a hypothetical example) that won’t be a good enough defence for causing or allowing the death of a child.

This is probably the worst case I’ve ever heard of. That poor baby was tortured time and time again and died in one of the worst ways possible. I have total faith in the jury.

Completely agree. The evidence of the episode of breathing difficulties that ends in a failed call to 999, they call 111 but don’t take the callback and then do not tell the health visitor about any of these breathing difficulties on her visit the following day.. JMF is there the whole time. I believe he engaged in the acts that caused Preston those same breathing difficulties that go on to kill him.
I also take the forensic sampling evidence of Preston’s saliva with both JV and JMF sperm mixed in to mean exactly that too. I think JMF “dna” (presumable sperm again as it’s his house so only significant if it’s that) was on the floor by the cot.
Absolutely harrowing.

 

[Lyla001]

Yeah ok I get they might be some good social workers out there, my point is there is a professional social worker on here with a profile picture of becky jones which I dont find very nice to be honest. I can imagine what type of social worker she is... why have this type of image as your profile given her profession I dont understand its unprofessional and very much like a troll... but ok they are not all as bad.

.
What profile pictures are social workers 'meant ' to have? I think your comment is absolutely ridiculous and totally irrelevant to the thread!

 

[Shinythings]

Yeah ok I get they might be some good social workers out there, my point is there is a professional social worker on here with a profile picture of becky jones which I dont find very nice to be honest. I can imagine what type of social worker she is... why have this type of image as your profile given her profession I dont understand its unprofessional and very much like a troll... but ok they are not all as bad.

Medical and social care professionals love a good witch as much as the next person. I don't really care if my Dr witches about Mrs Hinch on here for example, I care that they are a good doctor and are empathetic when doing their job. It's not black and white like that. Granted there's a time and a place and I would never express some of the views I have openly in public, because that would be stupid. It's unrealistic to expect 'helpers' to be professional in every single setting.

 

[PaddyDomino]

New podcast episode is out. The description of Preston having a poo in the bath is so weird and perverted , that poor little boy .
JV is also giggling quite a bit in interviews, it's all a massive laugh isn't it

The poo video
And also the video of Varley and Preston naked in the bath together and the police officer says it was less than three weeks after he had come into their care, and asks if that is appropriate?
Poor Preston, he never got a moment's peace from when he entered their so called "care"

 

[nothinonyou]

The poo video
And also the video of Varley and Preston naked in the bath together and the police officer says it was less than three weeks after he had come into their care, and asks if that is appropriate?
Poor Preston, he never got a moment's peace from when he entered their care

Interestingly the officer points out that the abuse started once JF went back to work. This goes against the theory that they both wanted to adopt a boy to abuse. JV started doing really henious things when JF was out of sight (and locking the door). JF is currently a bit of mystery. I think JV is completely done for but I think they have yet to start ironing out exactly what JF knew

 

[upyernelly]

There's many excellent SW out there doing unimaginably hard work. There are also some bad eggs, like any profession. I imagine there are also a lot of people who think negatively of them because they got their child taken 'for no reason' which is inevitably balls. You don't hear about the ones doing an amazing job because they aren't newsworthy.

I'm not a social worker, to be clear.

This is exactly the problem with perception. I have witnessed and been apart of many great stories of supporting families, keeping them together and really scaffolding them into the life they deserve. Unfortunately, that’s it though, they leave the system and move on with their lives. The public only really hear about the tragedies - as they should.