Nicola Sturgeon, SNP, Scottish Politics and Scottish Independence

[TheShire]

I believe the aim would be to reapply to join. One of the main points of the Better Together campaign in 2014 was that a "no" vote was the only way to guarantee Scotland's future within the EU and look how that turned out. That's partly why there has been such a push for a new referendum as this was a main promise of that campaign and things have now changed so much with Scotland being taken out of the EU that people feel they need another say.

it really wasn't. But don't let facts get in the way. In 2013 David Cameron announced that if he won a GE then an EU referendum would be held. The Scottish referendum in 2014 was held (on purpose) knowing fully well that an EU referendum was very likely to take place in the future. The no campaign highlighted that eu membership wasn't the quick n easy path that the other side said it was. They didn't say voting no would guarantee membership.

This isn’t last time.

This is true. But there's so far been nothing to show this time will have any more credibility or provide answers for the important questions.
And SNP support has reduced significantly since the last vote.

 

[Whatsallthis]

This is true. But there's so far been nothing to show this time will have any more credibility or provide answers for the important questions.
And SNP support has reduced significantly since the last vote.

I completely disagree. We are clearly looking in different places.
Also what are you basing SNP support on? The Scottish Parliament electoral system is designed so that it is almost impossible for a one party runaway majority.
Many of the electorate know that and loaned their 2nd vote to the greens (myself included). There is a clear Pro Independence majority at Holyrood - this is more important than any one party having the majority.

And let’s face it, if we had the same election system as Westminster that would be even bigger as the like of Douglas Ross and his cronies wouldn’t have a look in

 

[discodanman]

As a Scottish person living in Scotland, I feel we are different from what Westminster is. I feel like our country is more left leaning of course not everyone feels that way and maybe living in Glasgow, you feel it more but it is so vitally important that we try and move forward away from the corruption of Westminster. We didn’t vote for them. We didn’t vote for brexit. This is not an anti English movement, far from it! It’s about allowing our country to make our own decisions. The SNP wether you like them or not are an Independence Party, they are doing what they are supposed to do. If we are given the chance to become independent, I probably wouldn’t vote for the SNP I possibly would vote for greens/ a more socialist party. I actually feel so sorry for England when you have the Johnson or starmer to choose from. A real Tory and a pretend Tory. No thanks

 

[blueblueindigo]

This isn’t last time.

This time we are dealing with brexit, a cost of living crisis, war in Ukraine, more awareness over fossil fuels needing to be phased out, on top of a pandemic.

I don't see any of the concerns people had, and now have due to the new crises answered.

Nor do I think running an election on a single vote to be fair. Lot's of people vote SNP who don't support indy, or at least not indy now, presumably, and the Greens aren't large enough of a party to provide a left alternative.

I am just tired of this, the referendum has brought out the worst in some people, and at the end of the day, it provides a distraction from dealing with the devolved issues.

 

[TheShire]

I completely disagree. We are clearly looking in different places.
Also what are you basing SNP support on? The Scottish Parliament electoral system is designed so that it is almost impossible for a one party runaway majority.
Many of the electorate know that and loaned their 2nd vote to the greens (myself included). There is a clear Pro Independence majority at Holyrood - this is more important than any one party having the majority.

And let’s face it, if we had the same election system as Westminster that would be even bigger as the like of Douglas Ross and his cronies wouldn’t have a look in

Almost impossible yet the SNP got a majority in 2011 . It's designed to make it more difficult, not impossible at all.
Yes a clear majority of 50.1% voted for pro independent parties at a regional level

Looking at the regional vote share, while the SNP’s list vote fell by 1.4% to 40.3%, the Scottish Greens obtained 8.1% and Alba obtained 1.7% giving pro-independence parties a 50.1% return at the regional list level.

 

[Whatsallthis]

Almost impossible yet the SNP got a majority in 2011 . It's designed to make it more difficult, not impossible at all.
Yes a clear majority of 50.1% voted for pro independent parties at a regional level

Looking at the regional vote share, while the SNP’s list vote fell by 1.4% to 40.3%, the Scottish Greens obtained 8.1% and Alba obtained 1.7% giving pro-independence parties a 50.1% return at the regional list level.

Yes they did but they also agreed that was unlikely to happen again. They got that majority as they didn’t win the seats in the 1st vote but got in on the 2nd. Since then they’ve got the 1st votes so can’t get the 2nd therefore can’t get the majority they got in 2011.

40.3% of the list vote for how many seats? That’s exactly my point.

I think we should agree to disagree as we will just be going round in circles from now til next October and beyond.

 

[EasterEggs]

Almost impossible yet the SNP got a majority in 2011 . It's designed to make it more difficult, not impossible at all.
Yes a clear majority of 50.1% voted for pro independent parties at a regional level

Looking at the regional vote share, while the SNP’s list vote fell by 1.4% to 40.3%, the Scottish Greens obtained 8.1% and Alba obtained 1.7% giving pro-independence parties a 50.1% return at the regional list level.

A vote for a pro-Indy party does not equal a vote for independence though.. it’s just because there’s no point voting for Scot labour and Scot Tory.

 

[LondonCalling272]

I believe the aim would be to reapply to join. One of the main points of the Better Together campaign in 2014 was that a "no" vote was the only way to guarantee Scotland's future within the EU and look how that turned out. That's partly why there has been such a push for a new referendum as this was a main promise of that campaign and things have now changed so much with Scotland being taken out of the EU that people feel they need another say.

That’s not what they actually said though? They said that staying in the UK was the best chance of staying in the EU which was correct. Scotland was not a member in it’s own right and a Yes vote would have dragged us straight out of the EU. We all knew the brexit referendum was looming.

 

[Ndrangheta]

It would be a hoot if Scotland gained independence on the same day as the island of Ireland reunited. It's just a game isn't it ... played by the entitled few to drain as much money as they can from us dopes! haha.

 

[kazizzle]

That’s not what they actually said though? They said that staying in the UK was the best chance of staying in the EU which was correct. Scotland was not a member in it’s own right and a Yes vote would have dragged us straight out of the EU. We all knew the brexit referendum was looming.

It's been a long time. Whatever the exact wording was, remaining in the EU was a key part of their campaign. Many people voted no because they wanted to remain and now feel they were misled. Regardless it is one of the reasons why a new referendum is in demand now and I would say that future EU membership is something the yes campaign will need to really explore and make sure they have answers on if they want to increase their vote share from last time.

 

[Whatsallthis]

A vote for a pro-Indy party does not equal a vote for independence though.. it’s just because there’s no point voting for Scot labour and Scot Tory.

It works both ways tho . A vote for Labour doesn’t mean they are anti independence. I know of several people who vote Labour but want independence. Labour does have Pro Indy groups within it.

It's been a long time. Whatever the exact wording was, remaining in the EU was a key part of their campaign. Many people voted no because they wanted to remain and now feel they were misled. Regardless it is one of the reasons why a new referendum is in demand now and I would say that future EU membership is something the yes campaign will need to really explore and make sure they have answers on if they want to increase their vote share from last time.

 

[Blueballs]

We have nowhere near full control of our country. Would you accept giving all your money to your neighbour and them only giving you a percentage of it back to pay for everything you need? What if you wanted a really big purchase but you needed to borrow the money for it, except your neighbour won't allow it! Your neighbour dictates your wage, a lot of the taxes you pay, who can and can't live on your street, they tell you you have to pay for things you don't need or want. That's what we have currently and it sinks.

Mon October 2023 and to finally end this unfair union.

With all due respect, are you quite young?
There's a case to be made for independence, but analogies that are massively inaccurate don't serve any helpful purpose. Some people swallow up the SNP propaganda without having any critical thinking and lots of what they say has no correlation to reality. Like the time Nicola sturgeon compared Scotland's situation to the war in Ukraine. Absolutely disgusting.
But I guess all this bluster gives Nicola and co a distraction to their failings and doubles down on the anything not good is someone else's fault.

 

[MidnightAura]

But they didn’t answer any of the questions last time. It was all hearsay and talks of oil and how rich that made us. Despite oil prices falling a year after? I remember Alex Salmond saying we would continue to use the £. He also claimed we would be able to walk away from our debt. Give me strength!

Europe has made it clear an Independent Scotland wouldn’t get in. Quite why we want to be “independent“ from the rest of the U.K. but want to give power straight back to Brussels I can’t understand. I can understand why the fisherman hate the SNP!

 

[Blueballs]

But they didn’t answer any of the questions last time. It was all hearsay and talks of oil and how rich that made us.

And much of the natural resources are up here away from the central belt who have many no confidence that holyrood would be any better than Westminster!

 

[EasterEggs]

But they didn’t answer any of the questions last time. It was all hearsay and talks of oil and how rich that made us. Despite oil prices falling a year after? I remember Alex Salmond saying we would continue to use the £. He also claimed we would be able to walk away from our debt. Give me strength!

Europe has made it clear an Independent Scotland wouldn’t get in. Quite why we want to be “independent“ from the rest of the U.K. but want to give power straight back to Brussels I can’t understand. I can understand why the fisherman hate the SNP!

The argument this time will be how good Scotland is with renewable energy.

In reality, offshore turbines destined for the North Sea are being built in China and the UAE because it was cheaper and quicker to build them there and SHIP THEM all the way to Nigg than build them in Scotland..

 

[MidnightAura]

And much of the natural resources are up here away from the central belt who have many no confidence that holyrood would be any better than Westminster!

Thats because everything the SNP touch turns to shite. The NHS is disgraceful, our education system is going down the toilet but it’s okay because the snp are asking14 year olds about anal Sex, they are teaching primary one children they can change their gender. Ferries are a mess as are trains.
Lots of “missing“ money that hasn’t been accounted for. lies about sexual allegations. I could go on. I don’t trust this lot to run anything never mind a country.

 

[discodanman]

Thats because everything the SNP touch turns to shite. The NHS is disgraceful, our education system is going down the toilet but it’s okay because the snp are asking14 year olds about anal Sex, they are teaching primary one children they can change their gender. Ferries are a mess as are trains.
Lots of “missing“ money that hasn’t been accounted for. lies about sexual allegations. I could go on. I don’t trust this lot to run anything never mind a country.

Nah fair enough, I’ll let you support your MPs in London. Doing a fine job

 

[blueblueindigo]

Nah fair enough, I’ll let you support your MPs in London. Doing a fine job

Can't see the pic, but isn't this just deflection? We need to be critical of our government, regardless of who is in leadership. The SNP isn't untouchable, and the last indy campaign was just ran on wishful thinking, which seems to not have changed. Policy wise, it's all fine and well throwing in vote winners like 'free' this or 'free' that, but what about all of the devolved powers that haven't gone so well, or are just left stagnant, the Green's were welcomed for hopefully shaking things up.

The harsh reality, is Scotland does not 'subsidise' rUK, it's the other way around. 2020/2021 around 99 billion spent, but only around 63 billion raised! An indy Scotland, which has to fully support itself, and is a high risk when it comes to borrowing, with no chance of joining the Euro for a good few years, now taking onboard it's share of debt properly, is not in an ideal position, plus rUK would likely be feeling the pain of having the pound lose value.

Just because 'the other' side is awful at times, doesn't mean our sh*t doesn't stink either. There has been plenty of criticism for the current gov, just because the bar is so low in WM doesn't mean, this should be overlooked.

We need to be realistic here, austerity, high taxes as the result of not having the extra cash flow, plus having to spend so much money setting up our own infrastructure? Are we pro Nato or not? Pro nukes or not? Pro oil or not? Pro social progressiveness or not? Pro de-carbonisation or not? Pro land reform or not?

Also, OT, but it's so frustrating hearing of people online say that Scotland was a colony, or that the British Empire was 'English'.... what a slap in the face to all the countries where Scots not only participated in cruelty and exploitation, but were over represented in doing so, in comparison to rUK.

 

[Glaschelle]

As a Scottish person living in Scotland, I feel we are different from what Westminster is. I feel like our country is more left leaning of course not everyone feels that way and maybe living in Glasgow, you feel it more but it is so vitally important that we try and move forward away from the corruption of Westminster. We didn’t vote for them. We didn’t vote for brexit. This is not an anti English movement, far from it! It’s about allowing our country to make our own decisions. The SNP wether you like them or not are an Independence Party, they are doing what they are supposed to do. If we are given the chance to become independent, I probably wouldn’t vote for the SNP I possibly would vote for greens/ a more socialist party. I actually feel so sorry for England when you have the Johnson or starmer to choose from. A real Tory and a pretend Tory. No thanks

This is exactly how I feel. I vote SNP just now but in an independent Scotland, I'd be looking for a more socialist party to vote.

The vote to leave the EU was the deal breaker for me - an absolute material change in circumstances. This is why the referendum needs to be held.

And I don't get why people are so against the vote being held, especially as they all seem to be saying scottish people don't want it. Surely that's great cos the referendum will come back with a big fat no!!! I was yes last time and haven't changed my mind. Unlike several of my friends who were no and now are yes.

But as always the question for me is a simple one.

If Scotland receives so much financial assistance from the UK (England) why don't they want to get rid us??? The UK as a whole is in a financial Black hole after covid. Surely getting rid of Scotland would ease the financial woes????

 

[discodanman]

Can't see the pic, but isn't this just deflection? We need to be critical of our government, regardless of who is in leadership. The SNP isn't untouchable, and the last indy campaign was just ran on wishful thinking, which seems to not have changed. Policy wise, it's all fine and well throwing in vote winners like 'free' this or 'free' that, but what about all of the devolved powers that haven't gone so well, or are just left stagnant, the Green's were welcomed for hopefully shaking things up.

The harsh reality, is Scotland does not 'subsidise' rUK, it's the other way around. 2020/2021 around 99 billion spent, but only around 63 billion raised! An indy Scotland, which has to fully support itself, and is a high risk when it comes to borrowing, with no chance of joining the Euro for a good few years, now taking onboard it's share of debt properly, is not in an ideal position, plus rUK would likely be feeling the pain of having the pound lose value.

Just because 'the other' side is awful at times, doesn't mean our sh*t doesn't stink either. There has been plenty of criticism for the current gov, just because the bar is so low in WM doesn't mean, this should be overlooked.

We need to be realistic here, austerity, high taxes as the result of not having the extra cash flow, plus having to spend so much money setting up our own infrastructure? Are we pro Nato or not? Pro nukes or not? Pro oil or not? Pro social progressiveness or not? Pro de-carbonisation or not? Pro land reform or not?

Also, OT, but it's so frustrating hearing of people online say that Scotland was a colony, or that the British Empire was 'English'.... what a slap in the face to all the countries where Scots not only participated in cruelty and exploitation, but were over represented in doing so, in comparison to rUK.

Our sh*t probably does stink but not as much as Westminster and no one will change my mind on this. And as for deflection, do you seriously think people are supposed to just accept this poor excuse for a UK government? Are we not allowed the chance to better ourselves? And btw if you’re really going to go that far back. Scotland WAS colonised by England but I would never use that in an argument for Independence so I’ve absolutely no idea why you would even bring it up.