If you don't agree with any party DONT VOTE...simplesI completely agree with this.
I’m Scottish and I’ve voted SNP the last few times through lack of available alternative. I would dearly love to vote Labour, but Scottish Labour are... well we will leave that there!Lib Dem’s are also atrocious after they shot their own feet off. I genuinely don’t align with Conservative policies so I won’t vote for them.
A lot of SNP voters are in this scenario though: there’s no alternatives. It doesn’t make all SNP voters in the cult or workship of NS or any of them. It also doesn’t mean that everyone who votes SNP is pro-independence.
Sadly, no system works well without alternatives and a strong opposition. There’s no strong opposition to SNP in Scotland much like there isn’t a strong credible opposition to Conservatives in England. This creates a situation where Scottish voters largely vote in U.K. elections the way their voice will be heard: by voting SNP.
I would be wary of confusing all SNP votes as an endorsement of the hardcore independence contingent within the SNP ranks. Much in the same way I don’t compute all Tory English voters as being the same as the ERG- equally extreme on the other side of the spectrum.
Ultimately, lots of people seem to be angry at Scots voting SNP in. However, until other parties start to truly represent Scotland and build themselves back (looking at you Labour) then they don’t deserve votes, do they?
Tomorrow will be interesting.
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I'm hesitant if there is another indyref to vote 'yes'. I feel we are being slightly led up the garden path, by wishful thinking and blind loyalty that things won't be anything other than pretty unstable economic wise for a good while. I do not see the EU fast tracking us as a small brand new country, and one that fails to commit to join the Euro. I speculate that we won't be able to maintain spending on public services to the same levels. I do not think, looking back with the first vote, people were given enough clarity and security, and nothing has changed.
Independence will mean that no longer can the 'tories' be blamed for everything, that we can overlook certain faults with the party because all people want is independence. We have had such a dubious record in how the climate and sex scandals have been treated, for one.
We should also stop kidding ourselves about this 'civic' nationalism to. Xenophobia, 'any no voter is a traitor', 'aye or die' is not unknown within independence supporters.
We can't just keep having referendum after referendum. We also need a viable, proper left alternative rather than this dominating 'broad kirk' that holds all sorts of far right to center left views. In the same way Labour was eventually left behind.
I can see now why people in England vote conservative for years, even though they may disagree with them in some areas. It's the dominating party, the 'sensible' choice, the one with a track record that occasionally throws in some populist policies. I can see why people compare Brexit to indy, in terms of the division, blind loyalty, and 'everything will be okay, because ... well, aren't we so super, ofcourse it will be'.
Independence will mean that no longer can the 'tories' be blamed for everything, that we can overlook certain faults with the party because all people want is independence. We have had such a dubious record in how the climate and sex scandals have been treated, for one.
We should also stop kidding ourselves about this 'civic' nationalism to. Xenophobia, 'any no voter is a traitor', 'aye or die' is not unknown within independence supporters.
We can't just keep having referendum after referendum. We also need a viable, proper left alternative rather than this dominating 'broad kirk' that holds all sorts of far right to center left views. In the same way Labour was eventually left behind.
I can see now why people in England vote conservative for years, even though they may disagree with them in some areas. It's the dominating party, the 'sensible' choice, the one with a track record that occasionally throws in some populist policies. I can see why people compare Brexit to indy, in terms of the division, blind loyalty, and 'everything will be okay, because ... well, aren't we so super, ofcourse it will be'.
100% agree. The SNP do not have a good record and speak a load of rubbish talking of dreams that will never happen in reality. They cherry pick stuff that doesn't add up. No credibility. They say brexit was a disaster unwinding a union that existed for a few decades, but also say unwinding from a union for hundreds of years will be easy
Here in Aberdeen it's more like 2/3rds remain. If we're pulled out against our wishes by those in the central belt that want our oil maybe we vote to leave next and keep their hands out of our pockets!
SNP target naive people with limited life experience. I feel sorry for those that fall for the crooks in Holyrood.
I think referendums are a bad idea full stop. It takes any responsibility out of the hands of elected officials and puts it into the hands of people who haven't either got (a) the time (b) the intellect to fully grasp the long-term ramifications of the question in hand. Plus the voters are then bombarded with manipulative advertising try to sway them one way or the other. Oh, and of course it's all incredibly divisive.
...Aaand, breathe.
...Aaand, breathe.
I agree whole heartedly with this. Brings the worst out in everyone. 2014 was such an ugly time for both sides.I think referendums are a bad idea full stop. It takes any responsibility out of the hands of elected officials and puts it into the hands of people who haven't either got (a) the time (b) the intellect to fully grasp the long-term ramifications of the question in hand. Plus the voters are then bombarded with manipulative advertising try to sway them one way or the other. Oh, and of course it's all incredibly divisive.
...Aaand, breathe.
Im v much on the fence tbh and undecided so I dont have a dog in either fight.
I doubt brexit would have won had it been in the wake of covid and war in Europe. Another referendum now is beyond epic bad timing, regardless of your views.
But if that's your raisons d'etre I guess you have no choice but to push for it regardless.
But if that's your raisons d'etre I guess you have no choice but to push for it regardless.
Every country has the right to be independent, I do believe that. That aside, and this is such a pathetic comment but it's how I feel ... it's superficial and meaningless but I'll say it anyway: Nicola has such a mean, bitter, little mouth and I don't trust her. There, I've said it. haha.
I will be voting for independence. I’ve never voted Tory in my life. Neither has my family. I voted to remain in Europe, as did most of Scotland. Why is it that Scotland must be robbed of our opportunity within the EU just because England wants out. I get that 2014 was supposed to be a one off but so much has changed and the fact we may have another chance to be free from the disgusting government in Westminster then I am all for it.
Didn’t more people in Scotland vote for Brexit than vote yes in the election?
i could be wrong, feel free to correct. I just know I’m sick and tired of the threat of a referendum. We said no. It should be respected. If the vote was yes we wouldn’t be having a re run. Europe don’t want us. They claim Brexit makes no sense but neither does this. I don’t trust Nicola sturgeon as far as I can throw her. She’s a liar. Her and her husband.
i could be wrong, feel free to correct. I just know I’m sick and tired of the threat of a referendum. We said no. It should be respected. If the vote was yes we wouldn’t be having a re run. Europe don’t want us. They claim Brexit makes no sense but neither does this. I don’t trust Nicola sturgeon as far as I can throw her. She’s a liar. Her and her husband.
That made me wonder, so I went and looked it up
Brexit vote, 3,776,751 votes cast in total in Scotland, 38% in favour of Brexit, so around 1,425,165 votes (source: https://www.statista.com/topics/3133/brexit-in-scotland/#dossierKeyfigures )
Independence referendum, Yes vote was 1,617,989 (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum )
So slightly more Yes votes than Brexit ones, but less than 200k in it.
There's a small but growing movement for the Highlands and Islands to go independent of Scotland if Scotland goes independent of rUK, which I could actually get behind! We have about half the land mass of Scotland, 8% of the population and most of the natural resources.
I’m from the North of Ireland and feel the same, we voted to remain in the EU too. Just look at the protocol and the absolute mess Brexit has caused here. The ramifications for NI were clearly never a consideration for London, it’s even threatening the Good Friday Agreement. If we see a return to the troubles then that will be the final nail in the Brexit coffin.
Neither do a lot of elected officials either to be fair !I think referendums are a bad idea full stop. It takes any responsibility out of the hands of elected officials and puts it into the hands of people who haven't either got (a) the time (b) the intellect to fully grasp the long-term ramifications of the question in hand. Plus the voters are then bombarded with manipulative advertising try to sway them one way or the other. Oh, and of course it's all incredibly divisive.
...Aaand, breathe.
I’m a very open yes voter . I hate the Westminster (and torie) hold that scotland didn’t vote for and I am absolutely gutted about Brexit , it’s crippling our labour market and had removed so many opportunities. Independence wouldnt be perfect and there’s always going to be mud slinging party politics but progress over perfection .
i could get behind that. I don’t blame them one bit. I’m originally from there and if It meant we were rid of the SNP I would move home in a heartbeat. I didn't vote for Brexit. I have no problem with independence in theory but when you can’t get a straight answer from the SNP about very basic things like currency and why we should cut ties with our biggest trading partner, what would we do for security then I think we should question that. Not to mention the pandemic it was very lucky we are part of the U.K. we would have been screwed in every sense of the word. We are still trying to recover, theres a lot of uncertainty in Europe and the snp want us to have another re run of a divisive referendum? No thanks. We have enough tit on our plate.That made me wonder, so I went and looked it up
Brexit vote, 3,776,751 votes cast in total in Scotland, 38% in favour of Brexit, so around 1,425,165 votes (source: https://www.statista.com/topics/3133/brexit-in-scotland/#dossierKeyfigures )
Independence referendum, Yes vote was 1,617,989 (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Scottish_independence_referendum )
So slightly more Yes votes than Brexit ones, but less than 200k in it.
There's a small but growing movement for the Highlands and Islands to go independent of Scotland if Scotland goes independent of rUK, which I could actually get behind! We have about half the land mass of Scotland, 8% of the population and most of the natural resources.
I just don't see how you can look at things now and not even want to try for something better. A vote for an independent Scotland is not a vote for the SNP forever and ever. Who knows what political parties would emerge in the future. The SNP would have achieved their main goal so people who currently vote for them due to the prospect of independence would be free to vote elsewhere and may find their views align with existing or new political parties that would form in an indy Scotland. I can take a little bit of uncertainty for the prospect of a better future.
I think Scotland will vote yes this time and that’s only start of it, we will see a United Ireland within ten years and I expect Wales to follow Scotland eventually. Why should the rest of us have to suffer because of the small minded, bigoted Little Englanders who voted to leave the E.U? This was always going to happen after Brexit. The U.K will cease to exist in most of our lifetimes.
as a welsh person, i fully agree. if scotland go, we will soon follow. it will be a terrible idea, because i truly think we would struggle to sustain ourselves - but i also hate the idea of being swallowed up by england (in terms of international recognition) more than we already are.
Hello I’m also a fellow Welsh person!
I never believed I’d see the day when people talked about Welsh independence but its really taken off in the last few years, especially since lockdown when many English people showed a disgusting attitude towards the Welsh and our differing rules. I saw some awful remarks on social media from people who owned caravans in Rhyl etc in the early days of the pandemic and it really showed the disdain and casual racism a lot of them feel towards us.
Exactly. A lot of people outwith (and within Scotland) seem to forget that the SNP are not the only party campaigning for independence.
SHWMAE!Hello I’m also a fellow Welsh person!
agreed on all counts - i have a lot of family in mumbles/gower, where there’s a significant amount of english owned holiday homes and it was extremely bad over lockdown with these english families just rocking up with complete disdain to what our rules were. i think that type of behaviour has definitely seen the welsh independence momentum build. i also get increasingly sick of being referred to as “england” tbh. we’re always the forgotten part of the uk equation and i think that would only get worse if scotland break free. even some of the wording in this thread is about scotland leaving england. like, we’re here too guys
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