Nicola Sturgeon, SNP, Scottish Politics and Scottish Independence

[Yel]

Same argument could be made that Conservatives 2015 Westminster victory did not mean they had a mandate to hold an EU referendum? They campaigned on that promise and people voted for it. Same as SNP.

Oh definitely agree. Although many now recognised that as a flawed mistake so do you make the same decision knowing it's flawed or change it now lessons have been learned from mistakes?

I do agree with your point around referendums requiring a higher threshold. It stings that brexit went on 52%/48% of the voting electorate. That people in the 52% camp celebrated a “win” when 16 million fellow citizens did not vote for that.

Yep it's ridiculous. They should have counted the percentage as the country as a whole or made the threshold 70%. Ridiculous to treat long term irreversible decisions with the same rules as electing someone for a couple of years.

I've little skin in the game other than divided family members so don't really care either way, I'd just like it to be conclusive and with a good majority. That's not going to happen this time and the SNP has fell way short of their hopes.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

Have the SNP fallen far from there hopes though? I dont think any senior SNP politicians said theyd get a majority. The majority in 2011 was an absolute fluke and the turn out in 2011 was *so* low. So that did bolster those list seats for them.

The PR system used by the SG is v convoluted imo and its to prevent a majority government. A proper PR system would probably return more SNP seats.

It was other political parties and the media pushing this super majority and Alex Salmond

I think the results have been a super return for the SNP and I would certainly not be disappointed sitting in their camp this evening.

The media and the unionists will have you believe this is a bad result and imo its not. All those list votes for Green are a pro SNP vote and a pro independence vote. It was tactical voting.

My hope would be that the SNP would form a proper coalition with the Greens and not go forward with the minority government. It wasnt entertained back in 2016 as Brexit hadnt happened but it may well be looked at. The leaders of the Greens have been very open about working with the SNP on a more formal basis so the ball is in their court now.

 

[Whatsallthis]

I think its a stonker of a result. First woman of colour into Holyrood. My list vote went towards the Greens taking a seat. They have a good independence majority now with the Greens on track for 9!! seats.

So yes imo there is a mandate for another rederendum.

I gave Greens my list vote too as in Glasgow there was no doubt SNP wouldn’t sweep the Constituency vote
Glad they returned Patrick again but gutted at how short they were for the 2nd seat. Made it even worse to see it looks like voter confusion has cost them it.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

I gave Greens my list vote too as in Glasgow there was no doubt SNP wouldn’t sweep the Constituency vote
Glad they returned Patrick again but gutted at how short they were for the 2nd seat. Made it even worse to see it looks like voter confusion has cost them it. View attachment 565495

Yes! So confusing. My partner almost crossed that box until he read it properly. Im central Scotland and we returned our first ever Green MSP. Its been a great election from my perspective and returning a 4th straight victory is no mean feat. Show me a political party in this country who has in recent years delivered that. Im sure the Conservatives will equal it soon at WM. Cant see any way out for the UK now.

 

[Yel]

Have the SNP fallen far from there hopes though?

They've missed several of the key seats they were targetting, politically I'd say that's falling short.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

They've missed several of the key seats they were targetting, politically I'd say that's falling short.

They were the only party who gained constituency seats and they defended the seats they had. The way it works also meant that by taking East Lothian and Ayr while it gained them 2 seats, it lost them seats in South Scotland on the list. So taking seats is a bit of a moot point really because what this electoral system gives in one hand, it takes in another.

Also the seats they didnt manage to take, they lost because there opponents joined forces. The support for the SNP is actually up overall.

 

[Whatsallthis]

SNP are one short of a majority. A majority that is nigh on impossible as that’s the way the D’Hondt system is set up.
At no point has Nicola Sturgeon or her actual colleagues claimed they would get this so they definitely haven’t fallen far from their hopes.

In fact the SNP mandate (and the Greens) states that an Independence Majority (which they have) will show a clear mandate for a new referendum.

 

[Meh]

My hope would be that the SNP would form a proper coalition with the Greens and not go forward with the minority government. It wasnt entertained back in 2016 as Brexit hadnt happened but it may well be looked at. The leaders of the Greens have been very open about working with the SNP on a more formal basis so the ball is in their court now.

I think they will continue as a minority administration rather than a coalition with Greens. However, if they are serious about Indy then a coalition could support that. Alternatively, they know they can rely on Greens votes to get their agenda through when it comes to Indy.

SNP now have 64 seats so 1 short of a majority. Still puts them in a strong position.

 

[Whatsallthis]

Yes! So confusing. My partner almost crossed that box until he read it properly. Im central Scotland and we returned our first ever Green MSP. Its been a great election from my perspective and returning a 4th straight victory is no mean feat. Show me a political party in this country who has in recent years delivered that. Im sure the Conservatives will equal it soon at WM. Cant see any way out for the UK now.

My brother noticed and warned me. I can see people just looking for the green marking the box especially since they were so far up the ballot paper.

I believe the last time it was done was the Margaret Thatcher/John Major era but I agree, can’t see rUK making much of a change to status quo which is scary and makes me feel sick to the stomach.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

72 pro indy seats to 57 pro union. Thats the bottom line. The Greens have been honest this time about being pro indy and their seats were tactically voted in by pro indy electorate. You cant argue that is not the majority of a country telling you what they want?

 

[Meh]

72 pro indy seats to 57 pro union. Thats the bottom line. The Greens have been honest this time about being pro indy and their seats were tactically voted in by pro indy electorate. You cant argue that is not the majority of a country telling you what they want?

Pro Union Parties 57/129 = 44.2%

Pro Independence Parties 72/129 = 55.8%

I feel like we have seen those 45/55% numbers somewhere else in recent years ... and heard how it was “a clear majority” Or does that only work when the 55% is going pro-Union?

 

[Yel]

You cant argue that is not the majority of a country telling you what they want?

SNP got 47.7% and greens got 1.3% so 49% from the 63% turnout for the two main pro indy parties.

Yet another 51% Vs 49%

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

SNP got 47.7% and greens got 1.3% so 49% from the 63% turnout for the two main pro indy parties.

Yet another 51% Vs 49%

63% is a good turn out for a scottish election sadly.

However returning that many constituency seats when thats really peoples first choice is astounding.

At the end of the day theyre not gonna get another indyref easily. Itl be up to a court to decide. It wont be at the decision of anyone else imo.

If a court decides against it then the people wi have to accept that.

 

[Yel]

63% is a good turn out for a scottish election sadly.

Thats a real shame it's so low, especially for a proportion representation system. The UK as a whole turnout is a far bit higher even with the ridiculously outdated fptp.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

Thats a real shame it's so low, especially for a proportion representation system. The UK as a whole turnout is a far bit higher even with the ridiculously outdated fptp.

The PR system isnt that good though. Its woeful. Id much prefer a transferable vote system. It really allows people to truly put there first choice first, second choice second etc. Its just absolutely silly any party can get over a million votes on the list ballot and gain 2 seats.

FPP is even worse though :| the UK desperately needs electoral reform but the powers that be dont want it. There was a referendum about changing the electoral system some time ago and it wasnt advertised at all by the government. Im pretty sure the turn out was absolutely abysmal and I do wonder if its because people just dont understand all the different voting systems and how they work.

Im of an age where I learned about most of the 'new' or 'alternative' voting systems in secondary school and I remember at the time being fascinated that there were so many.

Its not hugely higher I dont think. Its about 65-67% recrntly which isnt a huge difference.

 

[Superdude]

I'm not an SNP supporter but I'm not against Scottish independence, with a different party in charge I sincerely hope
But I am a supporter of democracy and people clearly voted for the SNP, so be it. The 2014 referendum was hugely divisive but it seems Scottish people now have moved in favour of splitting from the rest of the UK, interesting times ahead!

 

[Pissedoffwithinfluencers]

I can see there being another indyref or at least very very heavy pressure to have one since Westminster has to give yay or nay to it. Would an independent Scotland still be able to afford free Uni, prescriptions, etc without money from the Union, how else would the afford it?

Yes .

I'm not an SNP supporter but I'm not against Scottish independence, with a different party in charge I sincerely hope
But I am a supporter of democracy and people clearly voted for the SNP, so be it. The 2014 referendum was hugely divisive but it seems Scottish people now have moved in favour of splitting from the rest of the UK, interesting times ahead!

Salmonds failed attempt proves that the independence movement doesn’t need another party. Especially not one ran by a bunch of narcissistic dick heads.

The PR system isnt that good though. Its woeful. Id much prefer a transferable vote system. It really allows people to truly put there first choice first, second choice second etc. Its just absolutely silly any party can get over a million votes on the list ballot and gain 2 seats.

FPP is even worse though :| the UK desperately needs electoral reform but the powers that be dont want it. There was a referendum about changing the electoral system some time ago and it wasnt advertised at all by the government. Im pretty sure the turn out was absolutely abysmal and I do wonder if its because people just dont understand all the different voting systems and how they work.

Im of an age where I learned about most of the 'new' or 'alternative' voting systems in secondary school and I remember at the time being fascinated that there were so many.

Its not hugely higher I dont think. Its about 65-67% recrntly which isnt a huge difference.

I think whatever we have it needs to be easy to understand. Currently it is not .

 

[Blurp]

I wish Scotland would just f*ck-off. And I love the Scots. But I'm tired of this Independence cr@p. Just go. Unless the EU change their entry rules (which they probably will just to p1ss-off us English) it takes 10 years to apply to be a member state of the EU and all members have to vote for it. Spain will never vote, because it'll mean the Basque's will leave Spain. It's a joke. Plus Scotland will need their own currency. LOL. At the moment my English tax is paying Scotland for free University fee's and healthcare prescriptions.

And all our tax from exports such as whisky is classed as English because it leaves the UK through English ports. That's outright theft. Even with that, we pay more tax to the UK than we get back.

We can have these things free because our government is more competent and more concerned about its citizens than about wringing out as much money into the pockets of themselves and their pals.

 

[Blurp]

One result I found very interesting was West Aberdeenshire. I lived there until my mid-20s, and it was a very marginal constituency between the Tories and the Liberals, then the Lib-Dems. Now the fight is between Tories and the SNP; that's a huge cultural change. It's also an area with a large number of incomers and not those that consider themselves as New Scots but those who try to turn it into the Home Counties. We did wonder how those who tried to get dogs banned from the village green would cope when the sheepdog trials were held there...

Now I'm in central Scotland and used to be a Labour Branch Secretary in a former mining community; a completely left wing area where previously the fight had been between Labour and Communists. The last Communist councillor in the UK was just a few miles away. Now the area is completely yellow with the bottom falling out of the Labour vote. The rot had set in long before the Independence Referendum. Blair turned the party into the Red Tories, took guidance from focus groups instead of party members and ditched Clause Four and the importance of government-run core services. The national party no longer listening to their members resulted in a party with no idea of the politics in Scotland and refusing to give the so-called Scottish Labour Party any input into policies or any leeway to adjust to Scottish opinions. At the same time, the SNP moved to the left and became more of a socialist democratic party than Labour was proving to be. Labour was already struggling at the ballot box when Better Together and the broken promises of The Vow lost them any credibility that they still had. The resignation of Johann Lamont with the comment that Scottish Labour was treated as a branch office by London was the cherry on the cake.

By the way, I was sent to an English public school and had constant abuse about being Scots. I no longer have a Scottish accent and have overheard the most appalling things said about Scotland by English people who didn't know my nationality. I would never live in England again, wondering what things were being said behind my back by the ignorant Scot-haters.

 

[Yel]

but it seems Scottish people now have moved in favour of splitting from the rest of the UK

What makes you say that?

The pro independence parties got just less than 50% of the votes. It to me seems like it's not moved at all and is still about 50/50.