Lucy Letby Case #8

[Haveyouanywool]

I wonder if they're able to tell which type of insulin was the cause.

I'm no expert but there are long and short acting types, so it would be relevant.

Not sure if they can.
I’d be interested to know if the TPN pharmacy solely made up TPN. If so, there would be absolutely no reason for insulin to be there.
I think it would have to be a very clean environment with sterile techniques used so I don’t see how general pharmacy stuff would happen there.
I don’t know though.
Another thing. Would the TPN bag then be hygieniclly sealed in another bag, more from a contamination point of view than anything else?

 

[MmmB777]

I think the evidence and explanation about the blood coming out of the babies mouth when the mum walked in and spoke to LL is crucial too. Is it normal for babies to bleed from the mouth during procedures? If it wasn’t for this and the insulin I’d firmly be in the not guilty camp

With the blood I it might become a Letby’s word against this mothers word. In which case are we supposed to think this mother would misremember or be influenced into remembering it differently- I truly personally think that would be not only extraordinary but highly offensive - my opinion. I also believe there’s going to be a doctor that said they’d never seen such blood loss in a prem baby but I could be mixing a couple of poor babies there

 

[slingo16]

I wonder if they're able to tell which type of insulin was the cause.

I'm no expert but there are long and short acting types, so it would be relevant.

There are different types of insulin? I’m so out of my depth lol

 

[veevee04]

I don’t know about interviews but it could have been as simple as the TPN bags for the two babies were made up by different pharmacists (the fact there are two babies with insulin poisoning means they will be looking for common denominators).

Could the bags have already been contaminated at the pharmacy? They make up the sterile TPN I'm not sure it would be under constant supervision?

 

[Daisydunn15]

Not sure if they can.
I’d be interested to know if the TPN pharmacy solely made up TPN. If so, there would be absolutely no reason for insulin to be there.
I think it would have to be a very clean environment with sterile techniques used so I don’t see how general pharmacy stuff would happen there.
I don’t know though.
Another thing. Would the TPN bag then be hygieniclly sealed in another bag, more from a contamination point of view than anything else?

I don't know enough about how pharmacy prepare them but I've never experienced a pharmacy error although I'm sure they happen, they're pretty strict and judging by how long it takes them to do anything I assume they're thorough. I think pharmacy would be a very weak defence.

 

[MrsDimSum]

There are different types of insulin? I’m so out of my depth lol

a long acting will meddle away over 18 - 24 hours and a short acting is used to ‘bolus’ to cover the carbohydrates in what you are about to eat and can be in the system around 4 hours.

unless you’re on an insulin pump it’s a steady stream of short acting to mimic the pancreas and you can bolus via this too

 

[MyWayOrTheHighway]

With the blood I it might become a Letby’s word against this mothers word. In which case are we supposed to think this mother would misremember or be influenced into remembering it differently- I truly personally think that would be not only extraordinary but highly offensive - my opinion. I also believe there’s going to be a doctor that said they’d never seen such blood loss in a prem baby but I could be mixing a couple of poor babies there

Yeh if they say the mum is misremembering, that will be awful and make the defence far less credible to me. Hoping there’s an honest, credible explanation from the defence on this. The possibility of her deliberately hurting a poor little baby just makes me want to cry.

 

[Appletiser]

I just want to say I totally relate to what you’ve said and you’re not alone! From reading through all of these threads over the last few days, it’s evident we’re all very caring people, many of us parents or working in the medical field so something this tragic feels very emotive to us. I agree as well, it’s nice to connect with others and to use our brains, just wish it was over something more positive and not so terribly sad.

I was also wondering whether there’s others on here who have OCD and / or ADHD?! I have OCD and suspect I also have ADHD and I tend to really zone in on things I feel strongly about - just wondered if anyone else on here can relate

I do!! My therapist says I have OCD and I’ve self-diagnosed myself with ADHD …
thats So interesting and hadn’t occurred to me! I do seem to be fixating on this case

 

[Tofino]

Could the bags have already been contaminated at the pharmacy? They make up the sterile TPN I'm not sure it would be under constant supervision?

I have no idea as I don’t know how they are made up. Even if it was a possibility though, one incident was in august 2015 and the other April 2016. The only two incidents just happened to be when Lucy also had opportunity to tamper with the bags? (According to prosecution). I suppose theoretically it’s possible she had incredibly bad luck but is that reasonable doubt? I don’t think so for me.

 

[Appletiser]

Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, and I am going to get around to reading the Wiki but regarding the texts about there being something odd that night, I did read a report that said it was LL that said “were they that different?” not the colleague.
Ignore the fact it was Daily Mail!
It just put a slightly different spin on things IMO.

 

[MyWayOrTheHighway]

I do!! My therapist says I have OCD and I’ve self-diagnosed myself with ADHD …
thats So interesting and hadn’t occurred to me! I do seem to be fixating on this case

Sending a massive hug to you! Living with OCD is so bloody hard and I feel like I’m also fixating on this case! Take care of yourself and take a step back if you need to, I’m trying to do that but keep getting drawn back in again!

 

[Daisydunn15]

Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, and I am going to get around to reading the Wiki but regarding the texts about there being something odd that night, I did read a report that said it was LL that said “were they that different?” not the colleague.
Ignore the fact it was Daily Mail!
It just put a slightly different spin on things IMO.

I think this is poor reporting as everywhere else seems to say the opposite.

 

[freaknasty]

Still not started and also no word from any of the usual tweeters yet.

 

[Tofino]

Sorry if someone else has mentioned this, and I am going to get around to reading the Wiki but regarding the texts about there being something odd that night, I did read a report that said it was LL that said “were they that different?” not the colleague.
Ignore the fact it was Daily Mail!
It just put a slightly different spin on things IMO.

the messages aren’t in the wiki because they are a bloody nightmare to understand due to conflicting reporting, cherry picking and lack of info for time and dates. I added links to a few of the articles that reported on it though.

So yes MailOnline have it the other way round to the BBC and Chester Standard. I’m inclined to believe the BBC and Chester standard versions because we know they definitely have reporters there (Mail might do but not sure) plus MailOnline have the worse reputation for accuracy out of all of them

 

[veevee04]

Correct me if im stupid here but insulin is usually subcut injected for maximum absorption. If you wanted to kill someone wouldn't you just inject them with a high dose of subcut insulin Vs tampering with a bag and diluting it which is hit and miss whether it would cause death ?

 

[slingo16]

Th

Could the bags have already been contaminated at the pharmacy? They make up the sterile TPN I'm not sure it would be under constant supervision?

Reading what we know. The defence says it has 3 possible explanations for the insulin over dose none of which implicate LL

these 3 possibilities will be interesting to hear

 

[Daisydunn15]

Correct me if im stupid here but insulin is usually subcut injected for maximum absorption. If you wanted to kill someone wouldn't you just inject them with a high dose of subcut insulin Vs tampering with a bag and diluting it which is hit and miss whether it would cause death ?

I suppose we don't really know her reasons if she did it however if you were trying to make it look like someone else did it, subcut would leave a mark for one and would cause a much quicker collapse. It would be a more efficient way of killing someone but if she is guilty, it doesn't seem like that's what she was going for.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

she hasn’t changed her plea

 

[Notworthy]

I don't mean actively wishing for it, but surely you'd rather all babies 'just' needed to feed and get stronger and none needed intensive care? Regardless of your skills going unused or your interest level. So to me, it's still a horrible attitude. Babies 'just' needing to get bigger is traumatic enough.

I work in a completely unrelated job but on a personal level I want disruption as it makes my job more challenging and rewarding but I also recognise the dichotomy of that as I'm sure nurses and doctors do to.

 

[Milktray]

.

I think this is poor reporting as everywhere else seems to say the opposite.

Yeah, it's the Daily Mail. I don't believe a word they say.