Lucy Letby Case #8

[Lucyxxxx]

So the same Lucy who was daft enough to leave that note lying around for the police to find is also plotting, scheming, sinister Lucy who is cunning enough to murder a baby, in plain sight,within minutes of her starting the shift that she wasn't even meant to be on.

 

[candyland_]

So the same Lucy who was daft enough to leave that note lying around for the police to find is also plotting, scheming, sinister Lucy who is cunning enough to murder a baby, in plain sight,within minutes of her starting the shift that she wasn't even meant to be on.

The note was made before her first arrest? She might not have expected a knock at her door from the police and thought the accusations would stay in work and go no further than an internal investigation.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

The note was made before her first arrest? She might not have expected a knock at her door from the police and thought the accusations would stay in work and go no further than an internal investigation.

She was aware of the rumours and what not. That note reads like someone who was very aware the police were looking at her.

 

[friedeggontoast]

So the same Lucy who was daft enough to leave that note lying around for the police to find is also plotting, scheming, sinister Lucy who is cunning enough to murder a baby, in plain sight,within minutes of her starting the shift that she wasn't even meant to be on.

We don’t know the note was just “lying around”. The police searched her whole house, it could’ve been hidden for all we know.

 

[candyland_]

She was aware of the rumours and what not. That note reads like someone who was very aware the police were looking at her.

I’m going to wait for that part of the trial to speculate on it to be honest because once we see a bigger picture our thoughts often change or we see things in a different light. There’s possibly more notes or diary ramblings.

 

[Emmelina Ball]

She was aware of the rumours and what not. That note reads like someone who was very aware the police were looking at her.

Yea it does say “police investigation” on the post it so that indicates she understood it to at least be a possibility if not already.

 

[LittleMy]

I agree that we’ll likely see more evidence in the form of notes or something else they’ve found at her home. I’m sure the prosecution touched on that in their opening statement.

 

[Daisydunn15]

I wonder if we'll ever find out what drove the digging up of her garden? If they found anything then I'm sure we'll find out but it would be interesting to know why they did it and what they were hoping to find?

 

[candyland_]

I wonder if we'll ever find out what drove the digging up of her garden? If they found anything then I'm sure we'll find out but it would be interesting to know why they did it and what they were hoping to find?

I think the prosecution would have brought it up in their opening statement if there wasn’t anything. I think the note must have been their biggest ammunition.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

So the same Lucy who was daft enough to leave that note lying around for the police to find is also plotting, scheming, sinister Lucy who is cunning enough to murder a baby, in plain sight,within minutes of her starting the shift that she wasn't even meant to be on.

I don’t think it indicates she was daft and, as someone else said, it might not have just been lying around.
Even the best of planners can overlook or forget something.

 

[slingo16]

From what I gather from the very poor reporting on the case, the cannula ‘tissued’ (failed) so had to be taken out, they tried to insert the UVCs which you can’t use without confirming its in the right place with an xray, these were both in the wrong place so a long line was inserted. All of these take time cause of the actual procedure of inserting the lines as well as the whole needing to xray them all before use etc. So typically when you’ve got a baby thats difficult to get access for IV fluids in, you’d put an NGT down to their stomach and start giving feeds just to make sure they get some sort of fluid in and to make sure their blood glucose level doesnt drop whilst awaiting IV access. So from that I’d say there wasnt both bloodstream access and NGT access until LL came on and started the 10% dextrose at 8pm after they’d confirmed the long line was in the right place. NGTs are really easy to insert and easy to ensure they’re in the right place so once thats in you wouldn’t really take it out. So from what I can gather there was stomach access only for a few hours, then from 8pm there was bloodstream and stomach access.

Sorry if this has been flagged there are a lot of posts to get through. However, you are mistaken, children O and P died whilst letby was on the day shifts.


“Letby was working the day shift on June 23 (2016) and was the designated nurse for Child O and P, in room 2, with another child”.

The prosecution say this "gave her an open opportunity to sabotage the babies".

Also where you state she got less efficient as murder as time went on, I just think you need to look at this differently if she is guilty. The whole situation is a paradox imo. While yes you’d think it would be easy to murder a tiny defenceless baby. She is battling against the whole purpose of those babies being in a premature baby unit. The doctors and nurses are there for one reason only to keep these babies alive. If she is guilty, each attempt that occurred would have been instantly (we hope) rectified. She attempts, they stabilise the baby and the circle goes on. I don’t think it would be that easy, especially if she was trying to go unnoticed, she would have to be subtle and work around the very system she had been trained for. In reality I really don’t think it would have been easy at all. The pattern also did continue to days, there were many attempts during the day, how was she know which would be successful attempts and which wouldn’t when her colleagues are doing the one thing they have been trained for keeping these being alive ?

is that confirmation these babies died during the day or is it possible these babies died during the night but her opportunity only came in the day time?

 

[Tofino]

For me the biggest thing keeping me thinking she could have done it is the pattern, but we've already seen thst there were deaths and collapses when she wasn't there. I'm sure we'll get that information in time.

I’ve seen you repeat this more than once but we actually don’t know this. We don’t know anything about other collapses and deaths either inside or outside of the 12 month period.

And if someone mentions the insulin poisoning she wasn’t on shift for i’ll bang my head against a brick wall because it’s already been stated multiple times that in the prosecution opening statement that they believe she tampered with the first bag, not the second.

 

[Footballgirl]

But why? Why do birthdays and graduations need to be advertised in a newspaper? To a bunch of strangers.....?

I don't know exactly why and not very good at explaining things but it was a very normal thing. I think sometimes people put birthdays in to show a funny baby picture with it or if a graduation maybe just they are proud of their family.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

is that confirmation these babies died during the day or is it possible these babies died during the night but her opportunity only came in the day time?

I suppose it’s not actually, fair point, has there been confirmation of the other way around ? I may have missed that.

 

[friedeggontoast]

Even the most prolific, intelligent serial killers get caught at some point.

 

[Windowtothewall]

Why did the royal stastical society release a report a week or so before this went to trial ? A bit much of a coincidence ?

RSS publishes report on dealing with uncertainty in medical “murder” cases

rss.org.uk

Well, given the LL case is not relying on statistics (hence a 6 month trial and 6 year investigation), I'd say it's irrelevant? Just because she's a nurse doesn't mean her case is the same as other nurses.

From the same report, they also speak of how statistics should have been used much earlier for Harold Shipman

"In the Case of Harold Shipman, anecdotal observations about apparently unusually many deaths among his patients followed by a police investigation found (non-statistical) evidence incriminating this English family doctor, and he was convicted on many counts of murder. A subsequent inquiry suggested that statistical monitoring techniques might have raised the alarm earlier and saved many lives."

So even the RSS can see ways where statistics is a useful tool in identifying criminal behaviour in medical settings. The take away is always backing up statistics with other evidence, rather than making it the ONLY thing as with Sally Clarke or the PRIMARY thing as with LDB. Unlike Richard Gill, they're actually being balanced in their views.

 

[MmmB777]

So the same Lucy who was daft enough to leave that note lying around for the police to find is also plotting, scheming, sinister Lucy who is cunning enough to murder a baby, in plain sight,within minutes of her starting the shift that she wasn't even meant to be on.

I don’t think it’s that uncommon at all that murderers/rapists/serial killers do things we would class as stupid in terms of getting caught because anyone capable of what she’s accused of doesn’t think like you or I (I hope ha). Lots of serial killers get away with things for a long time and also keep trophies which seems pretty stupid- even the bodies! But it’s part of the excitement etc. I do think as well some people like that also realise they will be caught almost. I’m thinking of that awful case with the chap killing gay men, Stephen Merchant played him in an itv drama, he’s used the same MO and left the bodies in the same place. Unfortunately because of the victims being gay men and (potentially) similarly to these prem babies, the nature of the victim lead to people not seeing it as murders (complete homophobia from the police in that case). I’m not explaining it well! I can see why you feel like you do though too

 

[Haveyouanywool]

I don't know exactly why and not very good at explaining things but it was a very normal thing. I think sometimes people put birthdays in to show a funny baby picture with it or if a graduation maybe just they are proud of their family.

The death notices were a lot more numerous than others originally. Mostly they included the time and date of the funeral so they served a very practical purpose, before social media.

 

[Daisydunn15]

I’ve seen you repeat this more than once but we actually don’t know this. We don’t know anything about other collapses and deaths either inside or outside of the 12 month period.

And if someone mentions the insulin poisoning she wasn’t on shift for i’ll bang my head against a brick wall because it’s already been stated multiple times that in the prosecution opening statement that they believe she tampered with the first bag, not the second.

I'm referring to the information someone posted from a newspaper further back. I know that's not necessarily true, and perhaps she was around for any extra incidents but they just had no evidence to add those to her charges, which is why I think it would be helpful for the defence to give an overview of all incidents, with or without LL around and of any extra hours she was working.
Also, with regards to that insulin poisoning, it would be interesting to know how likely it actually is for the first bag being tampered with to continue poisoning when it was removed. I know they've said it clings to the plastic, but how likely is that really? Is it a possibility as rare as an air embolism from placing or removing a long line?
Suppose we'll find out from the data and experts but right now all we can do is speculate and look at what's been printed in newspapers

 

[Windowtothewall]

The death notices were a lot more numerous than others originally. Mostly they included the time and date of the funeral so they served a very practical purpose before social media.

Thank you for explaining this - makes sense. I was genuinely trying to understand why her family were promoting her birthdays and achievements in newspapers in 2010/2011 when social media was prevalent and she was a prolific FB user. They hadn't done it before then or for anyone else in the family.