Lucy Letby Case #73

[sebanna]

Unless the new barrister can find information that the previous defence missed or a new neonalist can prove that all the babies died of natural causes then I don't think it will go anywhere. There would also need to be enough evidence to undermine all the convictions.

I think it's unlikely a counsellor told Lucy to pretend she was guilty, write it down and keep the note. She may have been asked to write out her thoughts and challenge them.

 

[VicksterIcon]

The DM has released a new episode to their Trial podcast. They speak to Professor Jane Hutton as she has questioned the statistical evidence and Tim Owen KC (from Double Jeopardy podcast). It was recorded prior to the news about Letby’s new legal team which they will discuss in the next episode.

 

[Pinky Joe]

Let's suppose 'the experts' get their way and there is a appeal,

But....
In what way is Gill and his statistics of the slightest relevance to the actual case?
Whether or not the doctors got the statistics wrong is completely irrelevant - or is the argument is that no one should have reported their suspicions to the police without Mr Gill's say so?
And that having been reported, the police should have consulted with Mr Gill before proceeding to investigate?

Or the Post-It notes.
I am presuming that the jury were shown them, and probably had copies in the jury room - so they could read "I am evil" as easily as "I didn't do it." and reached their own conclusion.
I fail to see how Ms Letby being advised to write them as part of counseling is of benefit to her case.
Unless the argument is that the hospital failed in their safeguarding duty by not reporting her to the police sooner - or perhaps the rules on admissions of crimes during counseling sessions somehow doesn't apply.

etc, etc...

Statistics, post-it notes, door swipes, defence experts, testing, all a deliberate diversion away from what actually convicted her and that was the medical evidence. Even Baby K was stable enough for her designated nurse to have left her briefly, and this was a major factor in convincing the jury that she was attacked, the clinical picture is vitally important as it tells the story, step by step.

The above are inconsequential, white noise, and will do nothing to aid Letby being granted leave to appeal.

 

[craftypudding]

The DM has released a new episode to their Trial podcast. They speak to Professor Jane Hutton as she has questioned the statistical evidence and Tim Owen KC (from Double Jeopardy podcast). It was recorded prior to the news about Letby’s new legal team which they will discuss in the next episode.

In this article https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...-letby-trial-nine-babies-deaths-excluded.html "..Professor Hutton, an expert in survival analysis, admitted she had only read a ‘summary’ of the Court of Appeal’s judgement, from three of the country’s most senior judges who refused Letby leave to appeal her convictions in July".
The absolute arrogance one must possess to write to a government commission to challenge convictions without having bothered to familiarise oneself with the actual details of the case and then admit as much on a podcast.

 

[Tofino]

In this article https://www.archive.is/https://www....-letby-trial-nine-babies-deaths-excluded.html "..Professor Hutton, an expert in survival analysis, admitted she had only read a ‘summary’ of the Court of Appeal’s judgement, from three of the country’s most senior judges who refused Letby leave to appeal her convictions in July".
The absolute arrogance one must possess to write to a government commission to challenge convictions without having bothered to familiarise oneself with the actual details of the case and then admit as much on a podcast.

This is what angers me the most. The people speaking about this are so unashamed and arrogant about their own ‘expertise’ that they can’t even be bothered (or don’t think they need) to read the court documents.

 

[kabukigirl]

I just can’t with these people

 

[Tofino]

I just can’t with these people

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always thought she was innocent before the trial even started. Ok then.

 

[sebanna]

I just can’t with these people

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Ffs. Do people not realise she is actually guilty. There is a great deal of ignorance around NNU babies, with people thinking there likely to suddenly collapse and die at any moment. In most cases premature babies need help with keeping warm, breathing and feeding because they should still be in the womb, but they are usually healthy with strong hearts. If there was medical evidence proving the babies died of overwhelming infection and sepsis it wouldn't have gone to trial.

 

[Hamburglar]

I just can’t with these people

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What a freak. Any normal person would be asking for a designer handbag or a trip to NY ffs.

 

[Tofino]

Jane Hutton is absolutely infuriating in that podcast. I may have shouted out a couple of times. I was initially thinking why on earth are they giving her any airtime but actually I’m glad they have because Liz and Caroline are being quite assertive with her, correcting her errors, asking if she’s read stuff etc and it actually really shows up how little research she has done on this case.

Caroline pointed out that Jane was shaking her head when Caroline was talking about the experience of the doctors and the unexpected deaths. Like a bleeping ‘statistician’ has more experience in neonatal health care than paediatric consultants. Jane went on to say wtte ‘I believe they made errors placing tubes so they can’t be that experienced’ but Caroline or Liz quite rightly corrected her and said no evidence that the intubation issued caused any of the deaths. So Jane says ‘I don’t know. I’ve no idea what investigations were done to see whether that was a problem.”

 

[Pulltheotherone]

I’m going to listen to this later on the way to the dentist ( it’s hot today ffs ! ) so that will put me in a triple bad mood !
Joking aside how is this even going to work ?
Is this lawyer working along side BM FOC on hopefully for them getting this to the CCRC or are they appealing baby K ?
They are out of time unless it’s been lodged and not reported ?
It doesn’t make sense.

 

[Tofino]

Liz Hull points out one of the three appeal judges was Lord Holroyd who was a judge that quashed convictions in the post office scandal so someone that’s used to dealing with miscarriages of justice.

Caroline says “whatever the narrative, whatever your concerns, the very least you owe it is to read the appeal document”.

 

[VicksterIcon]

Jane Hutton is absolutely infuriating in that podcast. I may have shouted out a couple of times. I was initially thinking why on earth are they giving her any airtime but actually I’m glad they have because Liz and Caroline are being quite assertive with her, correcting her errors, asking if she’s read stuff etc and it actually really shows up how little research she has done on this case.

Caroline pointed out that Jane was shaking her head when Caroline was talking about the experience of the doctors and the unexpected deaths. Like a bleeping ‘statistician’ has more experience in neonatal health care than paediatric consultants. Jane went on to say wtte ‘I believe they made errors placing tubes so they can’t be that experienced’ but Caroline or Liz quite rightly corrected her and said no evidence that the intubation issued caused any of the deaths. So Jane says ‘I don’t know. I’ve no idea what investigations were done to see whether that was a problem.”

I was shouting at my speaker saying "you're only a statistician" you know nothing! So glad Caroline picked her up on that.

 

[Tofino]

Question for the statisticians particularly Jane Hutton: what’s the probability of being an idiot when you speak out about unsafe convictions but then admit you only had time to read a summary of 58 page appeal judgement.

 

[MavisBeacon]

These bleeping people
If you're going to put yourself out there with opinions, at least do your bloody homework.

 

[Tofino]

I’m pleased to hear Liz and Caroline are continuing the podcast to follow the inquiry. Tuesday can’t come quick enough. Imagine if we had another six to 12 months of this nonsense before the inquiry started. Really hoping it changes the narrative in the MSM.

 

[Apostate]

The problem with the statisticians is that normally noone takes much notice of them so when they see an opportunity they can't keep their mouths shut.

They completely jumped the gun with Thirlwall telling the world they were going to be giving us all a lecture on the use of statistics in medical trials - only to have to back down. "Nope - sorry that ain't happening"

 

[Aberscot]

After listening to the Mail podcast they said that there is no funding for her to appeal to the CCRC so Mark McDonald must be doing it for free, maybe this is reason she’s changed legal team?
How embarrassing for Jane Hutton to go on a podcast and complain about injustice but didn’t even bother reading the appeal court’s judgement and even admitted it!
Anyone know how we can follow the inquiry as if I recall it’s not been allowed alive broadcast ?

 

[Pulltheotherone]

Jane Hutton is an absolute fool.

 

[Tofino]

After listening to the Mail podcast they said that there is no funding for her to appeal to the CCRC so Mark McDonald must be doing it for free, maybe this is reason she’s changed legal team?
How embarrassing for Jane Hutton to go on a podcast and complain about injustice but didn’t even bother reading the appeal court’s judgement and even admitted it!
Anyone know how we can follow the inquiry as if I recall it’s not been allowed alive broadcast ?

Yes he replied to someone yesterday saying he was doing it all for free.

I think as a minimum there will be daily news articles, not sure if there will be live reporting like in the trial but I’m very keen to follow closely so I’ll see what I can find on Tuesday. We now know there will be the podcast but not sure what frequency as they haven’t said.

The media will be able to broadcast short clips of various evidence which we didn’t have in the trial however the first part is the family evidence so they won’t be able to broadcast that due to anonymity but hopefully we get some redacted reports.