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O'lee

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Articles quoting Richard Gill as if he isn't a total nutcase, mentioning "concerns" of peoplen who are mainly anonymous and all bar one (Michael Hall) have had no access to any of the medical records of any of the babies on the indictment, failing to mention important elements of the prosecution case against Letby and not mentioning that she was present for all thirteen deaths on the NNU in her final year working as a nurse, instead choosing to insinuate that the seven she was charged for were cherry picked.... deary fucking me
 
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MmmB777

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This is actually pretty readable and a really clear outline of the overwhelming amount of evidence there was against her. I hope the author of the NeW YoRk TiMeS arTicLe and our little visitors that asked us to read it (no thanks xoxo) choose to in turn read this document.
Absolutely amazed that people could be so arsed to turn up and stan for a convicted baby killer at this trial because they’d read one fucking article and decided she wasn’t a psychopath. You’d think it would take a bit more of a deep dive than that to spend your life spaffing over a serial killer but hey maybe that’s just me 🤣 fucking morons.
 
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Bleekemolen

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There is more of a write up from one of the papers already...

On the sweltering summer morning when Lucy Letby began giving her evidence at Manchester crown court, the scene outside courtroom seven looked more like the queue for Centre Court at Wimbledon than for a criminal trial over the alleged attempted murder of a newborn baby girl.

Two dozen spectators crowded the doors for a seat in the cramped courtroom where Letby would speak publicly for the first time since she was convicted last year of murdering seven babies and attempting to kill six others.

Unlike the usual band of true crime fans who often attend such cases, the crowd at Letby’s trial were almost unanimous in their view: they considered the woman convicted of being the worst baby killer in modern British history to be innocent.

Many wore yellow butterfly badges similar to one the defendant had worn on her blue nurse’s scrubs. One person was escorted out of the court for disrupting proceedings. Another had his gilet inspected for hidden recording devices. One woman said she had travelled a long distance “just to see inside the courtroom”.

Through the middle of this scrum walked two broken, haunted parents. Their daughter, who can be identified only as Baby K, was born 15 weeks premature at the Countess of Chester hospital in north-west England at 2.12am on 17 February 2016. She weighed just 692g and was no bigger than an adult hand.

The parents sat at the back of the public gallery as jurors heard how their daughter had hovered between life and death before they made the agonising decision to stop treatment. Three days of “poking and prodding” had left her tiny frame swollen and bruised.

Wrapped in a blanket, wearing the smallest knitted hat nurses could find, Baby K took her final breaths in the arms of her father shortly after 5am on 20 February 2016. She was three days old.

Letby, 34, was not accused of causing Baby K’s death. Instead she was charged with attempting to murder the infant barely 90 minutes after she was born. Prosecutors said she tampered with the girl’s breathing tube twice in the following hours, to give the impression that this minuscule baby, sedated with morphine, was somehow moving the tube herself. Baby K had not yet even been named.

The defendant was said to have been caught “virtually red-handed” when a senior doctor, Dr Ravi Jayaram, walked in on her alone beside Baby K’s incubator doing nothing as the child’s blood oxygen levels fell to life-threatening levels. An alarm that should have been sounding was silent.

Jayaram, a consultant paediatrician, said he walked in on the nurse because he was “very uncomfortable” leaving her alone with babies after he and other senior colleagues had linked her to a number of “unusual incidents”. But this was the first time he had witnessed anything untoward.

Letby was found guilty last year of having murdered five babies and attempted to murder three others by the time Baby K arrived on the neonatal unit. She would go on to murder another two infants – triplet brothers – and try to kill three more before she was eventually removed from frontline nursing in July 2016.

While Letby’s first trial spun on complex areas of medical science, this case rested largely on one question. Who did the jury believe: Jayaram or Letby?

The category A prisoner looked drawn and weary behind the glass-enclosed dock of the courtroom, where she was brought each morning from HMP New Hall in Wakefield, West Yorkshire.

Flanked by three female prison officers, she made darting sideways glances at the public gallery where two of her friends sat on the front row. Her parents, John and Susan, had attended every day of her first trial but stayed away this time.

If Letby felt somewhat defeated, she had every reason. Her barrister, Benjamin Myers KC, had argued that she could not possibly get a fair trial given the notoriety of the case. The judge disagreed.

It was clear that Letby had been shielded in prison from the full blaze of publicity that followed her convictions when on day five she became tearful as an ITV News interview with Jayaram was played in court. In the seconds-long clip, the doctor said walking in on Letby with Baby K was “etched in my nightmares for ever”. It was enough to make her well up, her only flicker of emotion throughout.

In the witness box, Letby restricted her answers to a single word where possible. Most of the prosecutor’s questions were met with a curt “I don’t recall” or “I have no memory of the event”.

Her defence was straightforward: she did not remember any events of that morning. She had no memory of Jayaram walking in on her while Baby K deteriorated, nor two later incidents when she was placed with the baby by medical records and staff accounts.

Letby’s only memory of Baby K, she said, was because she was so small – born at 25 weeks’ gestation – and it was “unusual” for the Countess to take such babies. The infant was on the neonatal unit for only half a day and Letby was never her designated nurse.

Letby was unable to say why she had searched for the baby’s family on Facebook more than two years later. “I’m not sure. I don’t have any recollection at the time, or now, why I did that,” she told jurors.

“Were you looking for grief?” asked the prosecutor, Nick Johnson KC. “I don’t understand the question,” Letby replied. “The parents, on their Facebook, were you hoping to find evidence of grief?” he asked. “No,” Letby said.

The jury of six women and six men were told of Letby’s convictions. They were also told that the original jury had been unable to decide whether Letby had tried to kill Baby K, who would now be eight years old and in primary school had she lived.

Jurors were not told, however, that the former nurse had been cleared of two counts of attempted murder. The judge, James Goss KC, ruled that the two acquittals had “no relevance or probative value” in this trial because the evidence in relation to each of the babies was “fact-specific”.

Goss said Letby’s convictions could be used in evidence as they showed “a propensity” to kill. But the acquittals fell into a different category. There would be “no unfairness” to Letby as a result, he said in a ruling that can only now be reported.

Throughout the three-week trial there was an elephant in the courtroom. A 13,000-word New Yorker article, published weeks earlier, had raised questions about the safety of Letby’s convictions and fuelled the campaigns of those who believe she is innocent.

Cheshire constabulary is understood to have reported the publication to the UK attorney general’s office as a breach of the strict contempt laws that had bound the UK press since last September, when prosecutors decided to seek a retrial.

Although the New Yorker’s US publisher, Advance Publications, had officially blocked the article from view in the UK, it was widely available online. Some branches of WH Smith newsagents, which stocks the same hard copy of the magazine as US stores, even sold copies with the article.

While arguments about the case raged on social media, Letby’s attempt to overturn her convictions was dealt a significant blow by the court of appeal as it refused her legal challenge after a three-day hearing in April.

The appeal court judges refused Letby’s application to appeal on all grounds, in effect ending her legal challenge in the absence of significant new evidence.

In a police building near Chester racecourse, meanwhile, dozens of detectives are sifting the records of 4,000 babies connected to Letby during her short nursing career. Other investigators are exploring possible corporate manslaughter charges against the hospital.

A public inquiry will begin at Liverpool town hall in September into the hospital’s handling of concerns raised by senior doctors and whether she could have been stopped sooner. For the families of the babies who died in her care, the wait for answers goes on.
 
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Cack_Conroe

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I guess we can talk about the appeal now.

The defense whining about Dr Dewi Evans, about the quality of the air embolism evidence, and about the judge directing the jury that they didn't need to know exactly what methods Lucy had used to attack, were shit we'd all heard before in the original trial, and didn't worry me at all.

I was a bit worried about the defense finally bringing in a medical expert, Dr. Shoo Lee, who authored one of the papers on air embolism in neonates, which had been relied on a lot by the prosecution.

Ben Myers said that the defense are not allowed to "hold back" experts just to use them to appeal, and his justification was that the defense "didn't know" the prosecution were going to rely so much on the skin discolouration (bullshit), so the defense team "simply didn't think of" using Dr Lee as an expert witness.

Dr. Lee claimed that there is only one colouring diagnostic of air embolism in neonates, and that is pink blood vessels on a cyanosed (blue) background. He said that the moving discolouration on skin is due to circulatory collapse, rather than bubbles travelling through the skin, so could be caused by whatever caused the circulatory collapse. He said that air embolism should never ever be a diagnosis of exclusion.

However, it turned out that his opinion that pink blood vessels on a blue background is the only presentation diagnostic of air embolism was based on just two babies. When put to him that Dr Jayaram's description of one of the babies matched this, but was said in slightly different words, Dr. Lee denied it. He also had not been given much information on any of the babies, except a brief summary. When asked why air embolism shouldn't be a diagnosis of exclusion, he didn't really give a reason, but just repeated himself.

I felt a bit sorry for him, he's Chinese-Canadian and had never been a court witness before. Both Ben Myers and Nick Johnson were incredibly rude to him. I don't know what it is with Ben Myers having goes at people on his own side.

During the appeal, Lucy was present via video link, from Bronzefield (at the other hearing last September she joined from New Hall). She was mostly looking around (her eyes blinking and moving as they always do), and you'd think she was daydreaming or something. But as soon as they spoke to her, she didn't "snap out" of anything, and had clearly actually been listening all along.

Her eyes rarely went to her screen, unless she was spoken to. However, when Dr Lee was giving his evidence about babies who had suffered air embolisms, her eyes were on the screen the majority of the time, about 60-70%.

She was mostly expressionless throughout, except when the hapless court usher told her to be back at 11:30 when it was already 12:30. She made a confused frowny face. She made this same confused frowny face for a while in the middle of Dr Lee giving evidence. I am not sure why as her facial expression didn't seem to match anything being said, nor the timing with which things were being said, and she didn't vary the expression at all. It was odd.

Whenever she spoke, she spoke loudly, clearly and with great confidence, as always.

I thought she had gained a lot of weight due to her double chin, and wearing a jacket too small for her which made her look fat. However she was not fat at all last week, and I don't think she could have lost that much weight between April and now, so appearances must have been misleading, unless the food in New Hall is really shit.

I also thought she had looked quite well in April, and had regained a little bit of her previous appearance. She looked much so better in the leave to appeal thing than during the trial last year, which was one of the reasons I thought she wouldn't turn up to this retrial, figuring that the stress must have been what made her look like shit before. That was another reason why I was so shocked to see how bad she looked in person, even worse than last year.

I also noted that during the leave to appeal, she had an extra coat on her lap for warmth, which she would put her arms under. She had a tissue and had a good root around her nose. This are unremarkable things but it's weird to see her taking care of her own mundane comforts, when she absolutely destroyed the comfort of so many tiny babies.
 
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Boxatrix

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Honestly, I think her shouting "I'm innocent" was deliberate on her part. Sick bitch that she is. She knows full well the time for reasonable doubt has long passed and that in fact, there wasn't any. BM said today that this result was inevitable and that's all he was "going to say" - so possibly (imo) he knows something he's not able to say. And she's run out of road on appeals. So what had she left?

Well, like all narcissists she knew she must have the last word - so she used it to raise a moral doubt in at least some of the parents' minds. Thing is, they are actually human. Of course they have thought that she is going to prison for hundreds of years. I know I would worry, at some point, even briefly: "what if she didn't do it?"
She knows that. Narcissists calculate the maximum hurt and distress they can inflict - physical, emotional - it's all the same reward. Then they do it.

I read that there were gasps in court when she said it. So, to hear that - or to see the tiniest flicker of doubt or fellow-feeling on their faces would be a triumph for her. I don't have words to describe the depths of her depravity. It's taken me ages today to get my head around that, after all the pain and suffering she has wrought on so very many souls, she would go just a little further. The last word is irresistible to a narc. I don't know why I didn't see this coming. I seldom wish harm on anyone, but truly, I hope she dies screaming.
 
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MmmB777

VIP Member
BNE has counted the 30 seconds again. God it feels gut wrenching to think of her parents sat there as he does that.
Justice is coming! The prosecution have really nailed this now. Today’s reporting makes the timings feel so much clearer. She truly is pure evil.
 
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I saw a video on YouTube, it was some American psychiatrist. He said he thought she has factitious disorder imposed on another (munchausen’s by-proxy). He based it on her centring herself in all the drama, getting angry when she wasn’t given the sickest babies and also being repeatedly told not to intrude on the grieving families. He postulated that she attacked the babies to get attention on her and create drama if she was “bored”. He explained it well and it did make sense to me. I think her decision to take the stand in both trials, and the outburst at sentencing fits in well with this hypothesis. He did make comparisons with Allitt but said without us knowing much about her presentation before this came to light it was hard to say. I even think the fainting fit at A&E goes along with it, and her whining about knee surgery when arrested. I suppose without any sort of confession we will never know, but it makes sense to me.
 
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Beigerac

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I cannot believe the gall. ‘I’m innocent’. I’m sure even your own parents have worked it out now you depraved, life wrecking perverted piece of filth.
 
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Cack_Conroe

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Just popping back in to say I am absolutely raging at these new articles filled with utter lies. I have an assignment to complete before tomorrow midnight, and after that I will be formally complaining about them. (Including the one lying about the court watchers: the exaggerating of the prominence of the NGs was intended to bolster the claims of the “elephant in the room”, ie the doubts about Letby’s guilt)

It's disgusting that the Guardian hack is paying lip service to the families – who have stated how offensive and hurtful these articles are – while still doing the very thing that upsets them so much.

The experts quoted are sick egotistical fucks. Michael Hall is raging about not being given his time to shine on the stand. The defense did use him: how does think Ben Myers, who has no medical background, gained the medical knowledge to cross examine the prosecutions’ witnesses? From him. That was his purpose for the defense. He wasn’t guaranteed a chance to take the stand and the defense don’t have to tell him why they didn’t use him. If they didn’t call him, it is almost certainly because his testimony would have done Letby more harm than good.

Letby herself retained her legal team from last year (who she controls, they can only advise her), so she certainly was not unhappy that Hall didn’t give his tuppence worth.

The prosecution actually did not use statistics. At all. Let alone “heavily rely” on it. (The fact she was there for every event is not statistics lol. That’s just ruling out who was there and who was not for each event.) This is the very reason Richard Gill is so enraged: he has absolutely nothing to refute. There is no way for him to become involved. So he has simply fabricated what he wishes had been a part of the prosecution’s case for him to challenge. This lie is being repeated so much it has become the truth in the public’s mind, as is the lie that there were deaths she wasn’t there for.

Notice how the journalist sneakily says “the jury weren’t told of the six other deaths on the ward” – without saying it, she’s leading the reader to believe that Letby wasn’t there, without the journalist actually saying it, so she’s technically not lying.

The defense calling the services of a statistician despite the prosecution not using it suggests they were hoping to find some statistics showing that Letby’s constant presence could easily be a matter of chance – and didn’t find any.

The doctor giving her opinion without having access to ANY of the evidence – just the meagre snippets that came through from live reporting – is despicable. How arrogant is she that she thinks she’s entitled to publicly support a serial baby killer, just from reading a couple of newspaper articles.

This became a long rant, I need to get back to cramming for my assignment >.<
 
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Tofino

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Caught up with the thread now. I’m thinking about her “I’m innocent” outburst. I think this might be the first time she’s ever used those words? Took 15 WLO for her to remember to say it but she’s had to hold in all her anger due to juries / appeals etc.
I bet she was furious she was forced to attend today.

I’m also thinking about how if you were actually, genuinely innocent, wouldn’t you be beyond distraught? It would be like some horrific nightmare you couldn’t escape. Even if you get to the point you are angry at everyone, hearing out loud one of the mothers saying you will never get to experience the love and joy of raising children of your own, surely that would be the point you would breakdown in tears or have some sort of emotion.

I don’t know how some people keep coming up with excuses for her behaviour. Like, because She shouts I’m innocent it must mean it’s true? Murderers would never lie about that? Ffs 🤦🏼‍♀️
 
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Thegirlwhouk

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Baby K's parents should be commended for going for this retrial. I would totally have understood if they couldn't face going through it again. But they have, and that's so brave and courageous of them. Baby K ❤.
 
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Cack_Conroe

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These are my thoughts about Dr Cockington.

It felt like there was an undercurrent of insincerity and contempt in her messages to him. She was quite aloof. She was also manipulative at times, like saying she will walk home in the dark, knowing he will then have to rescue her. I think she enjoyed that he fancied her, and wrapping him around her little finger.

I think she further enjoyed being spoiled by him. Remember he took her to Cheshire Oaks designer shopping outlet, went on a trip to London with her, bought her chocolates, went to restaurants and country walks. This is not the behaviour of a married platonic friend, and also, if she really was his friend then she would have been gladly introduced to his wife. It's obvious that Dr. Cockington was trying to woo her.

Also she no doubt enjoyed his insider information, and support when other people were leaving her and the walls were closing in. I don't think she fancied him, she just enjoyed the benefits of his attention, but she desperately missed his support once it was gone (hence all the "my love" and "my best friend <3" shite). This was in spring 2018, and must have known that the investigation was drawing ever closer. She may have felt attached to him when there was no one else left, and was shocked at her most devoted mug turning his back on her.

I've always believed her apparent emotional outburst in court was an attempt to manipulate him and make him feel sorry for her.

There is another article from 2015 showing that Dr Cockington's wife is a churchgoer. This would explain why she's stood by him, and if he is also a churchgoer, why his wooing attempts with Lucy were so U-rated.
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I'm morbidly fascinated by the way so many killers show no emotion in court once they seem to know it's the end of the line for them.

Is there a psychological explanation for that?
Psychopaths don't care about anything. They're stone cold.

Sadists have a blunted startle reflex for both noises and emotional things, so bad news doesn't shock them in the slightest. This would also explain why Miss PTSD did not even flicker at any loud noise or shouting.

It has been interesting to see her different behaviour without her parents there to perform for.
 
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