Lucy Letby Case #72

[Boredofthegram]

Just listening to the podcast. Mum of baby D was there today and some of the members of the jury from the first trial.

 

[Tofino]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...y-chilling-admission-days-guilty-verdict.html

I hadn’t registered how chilling this response was.

During the recent retrial, Letby was fending off questions from Nick Johnson KC, prosecuting, about her 'fascination' with her tiny victims and the way she carried out repeated Facebook searches on their parents once she had killed them.

At one point, she told him: 'I carry a lot of babies around in my head.'

…

In the meantime, senior detectives are expected to approach the killer in prison to see if she is ready to confess to other crimes against newborn babies – most likely of attempted murder.

However, the reality is that Letby – now recognised as Britain's most prolific serial baby killer – harmed infants so frequently and sometimes so randomly that even she may not know how many she attacked.

It is understood that the new investigation will be focussed mainly on Liverpool Women's Hospital.

There’s no way she will admit anything. She will take it to her grave.

I still think there is something very chilling about that first handover sheet from LWH kept in pristine condition in her memory box. And how two babies died close together.

 

[Baabaablacksheep320]

 

[Thegirlwhouk]

Fucking knew it.

JUSTICE.

And I LOVE that it took them so little time. Bitch that she is needs to be hauled over the coals for EVERY single baby she harmed.

 

[Tofino]

I do have very little sympathy for him I must say. Whether he is identifiable or not, I don’t feel bad for any of the piss taking against him. Maybe it should serve as a warning for other men considering dipping their pen in company ink!

His wife and children don’t deserve to be indentified but I hope the court order is to protect them rather than to protect him and hide his dirty secret. But then court orders are usually for the person and not their relatives. (This was made clear in the judges decision when Scarlett Jenkinson and Eddie Ratcliffe were named as child murderers).

he was clearly overstepping boundaries in both work and his marriage and also went out of his way to tell Lucy confidential information he was privy to. I’m not convinced anything physical happened, i think we may have seen more in the messages if it had. So I can believe she just used him. But he was married and went along with it so I don’t feel sorry for him.

 

[kikixxxxx]

Only a couple of hours it took them. That speaks volumes.

Absolutely speaks volumes and hopefully shuts those conspiracy theorists up.

TWO SEPERATE JURIES have found her guilty. It’s over.

God I would love to have seen her face when she was found guilty again. If anyone was there can you describe it, in detail pls

Myers speech and agressive table banging clearly did Jack shit. Unlucky mate

 

[MmmB777]

It was said that Lucy was attacking babies as a reason to gain the attention of Dr Noname, but that never really made sense as she had killed a number of babies before he started. I wonder if he continued to receive information about the Chester investigation and then passed it onto to Lucy. Someone told her about the upcoming police investigation, as that was probably why she Facebook stalked baby K's family then.

We already know he fed her information from reviews and meetings etc don’t we? Things she shouldn’t have been privy to.

With that in mind… I do feel bad for acting on the info discovered in the document but not too terrible partly because it’s their fault for disclosing it and also because with the publicly available information we have and should be allowed to scrutinise Noname in the same way others involved are scrutinised- many of whom will be part of a public enquiry soon. Directly naming him or his family isn’t the same as that and do agree it should be a no.

I feel the utmost sympathy with all those unfortunate enough to have worked with Letby. The hospital managers will likely face some criminal charges which I think will be the correct thing but I even still feel some sympathy (although not overflowing) for them because they must have never believed such evil could be under their noses, even though they should as that is the point of true Safeguarding.

From looking into the Allitt case, I know this will have life long implications for all of those who worked with Letby. One nurse killed herself, another attempted to, some emigrated. I watched the consultant in that case be brought to tears in a recent interview on YouTube about it all, over 30 years later you could see the whole thing still cut him like a knife. They faced exactly what all the named doctors and nurses in this case faced. Bev’s lawyer completely roasted them and the defence was just to blame the poor unit and poor care. They were also really scapegoated in the public enquiry in a way that they felt was to cover up the widespread problems in the NHS (lack of funding and nurses etc). I think they also lost their jobs but fought for them back, could be wrong but certainly it was a disaster for them personally and professionally. It must have been truly traumatic and after watching so many healthy children die and being unable to help. Just trauma upon trauma.

All the docs in this case will be feeling similar things. Their practise has been ruthlessly scrutinised, in total and fine detail, what tube they used, were they quick enough, did they cause the bleeding, did they poison children.. when all they were really doing was battling an unknown evil force amongst them.
Their inability to stop what was going on, I believe Dr J when he says it haunts him, and it probably will haunt all of them. Whole careers that they will feel is now defined by this tragedy is a tragedy in itself.

Even on here, plenty of people were of the opinion that her ability to carry on offending was down to people not doing enough. I don’t feel that way but I can see and appreciate why people do. I think when the documentaries and dramatisations do come out, it’s likely that quite a lot of the public opinion will be also questioning why they couldn’t have gone to police or done more. Especially as Myers has said it so often. It will be a rotten thing to live with and punishment enough for any mistakes made.

What I’m rattling on about (and not coherently sorry) is that Noname’s actions that are publicly available are no less worthy of scrutiny than the other unfortunate souls that worked with Letby. In order for the truth and clarity of what happened and how it can be prevented from happening again.
He made some awful decisions and that’s before you factor in the morality of having such an inappropriate relationship (physical or not. I’m betting not) with a young nurse. His anonymity does allow him to not be scrutinised in the way that others are. Poor Dr Gibb is literally being accused of being the murderer, euthanising babies. Now that is disgusting and a whole different level to mocking old Dr Cockington for being less than a hunk. None of what he did is criminal, just less than professional. I don’t feel that Noname should be purposefully identified and we should try to stick to the court order (which is obviously harder when they made his identity public!), however his actions are no less worthy of scrutiny than anyone else’s in terms of how this awful situation was able to continue for so long and no less important in terms of preventing it happening again in what is a publicly funded service by all of us, for all of us.
I just hope all of them are able to recover from it and continue their work.

Essentially, we will all take an opportunity to bring Letby down a peg or two. To mock her because we absolutely know she cannot stand that. Cannot stand that she isn’t miss perfect prissy knickers and is a bog standard little trollop for entertaining a married man just to get her ego boosted. Good god I’d forgotten how she made the days after two poor triplets had suddenly and brutally died about her and her needle prick, getting fawned over as always she is the true evil and disgusting one in this whole horror show.

I don't really know why I’ve written all that or what points I’m making but it’s made me feel a bit better roll on Friday #WLOhun #noprossecoinprison

 

[Cack_Conroe]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...y-letby-retrial-scrum-of-spectators-courtroom

I just want to say the report of the court watchers in this article is wildly dishonest.

"Unlike the usual band of true crime fans who often attend such cases, the crowd at Letby’s trial were almost unanimous in their view: they considered the woman convicted of being the worst baby killer in modern British history to be innocent."

Not true. I was a part of that scrum. IIRC 6/9 people (not including Janet's BFF) who managed to get into court 7 were Letby's older male fans, but this is because they were experienced enough to turn up for court early enough to get in. Most of the rest of the crowd (I'd say about three dozen, not two) were mostly youngish women, and the ones I spoke to were true crime fans like me and believed she was guilty. In fact I'd say about half of the trial watchers were pro guilty on both days.

"Many wore yellow butterfly badges similar to one the defendant had worn on her blue nurse’s scrubs."

Only two of her fans wore yellow butterflies. They only turned up on Monday, not Tuesday last week. I believe there were more yellow butterflies earlier in the trial.

"One person was escorted out of the court for disrupting proceedings."

This happened the week or two before I was there. This man has a vendetta against Judge Goss, and was handing out leaflets to his website, www.bentjudgejamesgoss.com , in court 16, not court 7. He is fixated on his own conviction 25 years ago, and is nothing to do with Lucy.

"Another had his gilet inspected for hidden recording devices."

Again, this happened a week or two before I was there, and did not happen the day of the scrum.

This journalist is trying to give the impression of a chaotic horde of disruptive Letby fans clamouring to get in, but while there were many very eager people, nobody was deliberately misbehaving on those particular days, and I'd guess about half the people did believe she was guilty. The journalist is deliberately confusing earlier parts of the trial as if it all happened on one day, in order to make things look more dramatic.

"Flanked by three female prison officers, she made darting sideways glances at the public gallery where two of her friends sat on the front row."

One friend. The second is the mole.

 

[raspberryjuice]

Let’s hope this is the last time that bitch sees the outside world. Rot you cunt.

 

[MmmB777]

Pure class . I remember he was emotional last trial, his voice broke and his eyes were watery.
---
Chester have more of baby k’s mum’s statement
How was this possible? How could we have let this happen to her? Why has this happened? What happens next? All questions that were unable to be answered and might never be able to be.

"Our relationship was hit hard and is still affected now and will always continue to be, we are different people and cope very differently which courses friction.

"Most of the time we are unable to talk through what we were thinking or feeling in relation to what happened to [Child K] not only her death but now that someone could have potentially knowingly hurt her, wanted her to die.

"We talk logistics and it stops there. We deal separately with the underlying feelings that we have and do this very quietly and on our own.

"We are people that haven’t needed help or support from anyone before, we are the ones that hand out the help and assistance, not required it ourselves.

"We struggle a lot sharing with our family and friends, putting our stress and hurt on them.

"We feel that we’ve put everyone through it all once when [Child K] passed and now it’s happening again as the first trial approached and through to a second.

"We don’t want the conversation to be about us and the pity that sometimes comes with that. The impact is across all aspects of your life, like ripples in the water, layer by layer of your life is touched."


“[Child K] is not here, never will be, we will never have what would give us peace, closure, or a feeling of being complete family unit.

"However, you Lucy Letby, will never hurt another child or have the privilege and joy that children give.”

 

[MmmB777]

---

Orion acquires Unmasking Lucy Letby by BBC journalists Jonathan Coffey and Judith Moritz

Orion has acquired rights to Unmasking Lucy Letby, by BBC journalists Jonathan Coffey and Judith Moritz.

www.thebookseller.com

 

[Tofino]

More on the juror in the cafe saga..

Greater Manchester Police were instructed to identify the sender of the email and were unsuccessful but concluded the email address was new. The sender did not respond with further contact details.

Defence still wanted the juror to be questioned by the court!!!

Our God BNE opposed it, said it had all the hallmarks of someone trying to disrupt the trial, and at that point the jury had been deliberating for 14 days which contradicted the allegation anyway!! (God I love that man)

Also…

 

[Bleekemolen]

AMAZING - justice for Baby K and her family

 

[sebanna]

Well that was quick, I thought it would be a long drawn out affair.

Hope this gives the parents peace. Going through two trials must have been horrendous.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

Not meaning to offend anyone and this is just my take. Having read one of the Liz Hull articles it’s only just dawned on me that Janet Cox was actually a nursery nurse. I had wondered how and why a registered nurse could have been taken in by the big-chinned freak for all this time. I’m not denigrating any support staff, I’ve done that job myself and worked with some fantastic ones over the years but…if you’ve ever been in nursing you will know Cox’s type. I even had the misfortune of being bullied by one after the birth of my first child when I was struggling to feed him. Older woman, been in the job for years- thinks she knows it all, superstitious, task oriented, cliquey, thinks they are the boss, does outdated things “because that’s how I was taught/how we’ve always done it”. I can just picture how she would be on a team that was struggling due to constantly putting out Letby’s fires, creeping round her favourites, making them cups of tea, holding the fort (overstepping the mark) while they were busy, ingratiating herself with the doctors (first name terms, knowing facts about their personal lives etc). Even the way the papers have been portraying her as “retired nurse”, RN is actually a title protected by law- you can’t claim it if you’re not it. Like I say, I don’t dismiss or devalue the role of support staff, and I’ve had the privilege of working with some of the best nurses- HCAs- over the years but there are Janets the world over. The troupe of middle aged Facebook warriors who get involved in all the “army’s” described in the article fit this profile as well. Not much point to my post and I’m not usually this nasty so I’ll pipe down now

 

[O'lee]

Having heard the heartbreaking victim impact statements at sentencing last August and been in the actual courtroom for the most recent trial, hearing Baby K's family in tears as the mother's statement was read about making the decision to switch the machines off, I have zero patience anymore for the conspiracy theorists, weirdos and perverts who've latched onto this case

Fuck them and fuck Channel 5 for giving them a platform

 

[Lincoln34]

Baby H
Baby H was born in good condition but began grunting not long after birth, rushed to the unit where a life saving procedure was performed because she had a pneumothorax. Is this the kind of “collapse when Letby can’t be blamed” that BM wants to convince you is significant? A collapsed lung after birth that the doctors resolved? A clear medical explanation that responded to treatment. Very, very different! To expect there to not have been those, in a hospital is utterly insane.

Dr Ravi and the doctors saved Baby H’s life with that procedure, it’s not an uncommon problem for prem babies but if it had been left she’d have been extremely poorly.
Unhappy after the initial drain was inserted that the problem was persisting too much, they decide to insert a second drain, because they could see the air was accumulating lower down than the first drain’s position.

Ben Myers was maybe successful in muddying the water here by going on and on about that drain being “in the wrong place”. The first drain is in the optimal position as per the text books. The second drain is placed because the one in the optimal position wasn’t solving enough of the issue.
Why would he put the second drain in the same bloody place as the first one that they’ve assessed isn’t being as effective as they need it to be. BM is clever if he’s managed to make anyone scratch their heads over that but it’s actually embarrassing imo.

Mr Myers: 'For an experienced doctor, it's in the wrong place, isn't it?'
Dr Jayaram: 'No, it's in the pleural cavity. You're concentrating on process rather than outcome. This drain needed to go in, and it actually made more sense to put it in lower down rather than in the same place'


Again, BM went on about the type used, there wasn’t the optimal one available. The suggestion being that it would have been more optimal for Dr Ravi to do what? Let the baby deteriorate with this serious issue and wait? Just imagine what BM would have said if he’d done that eh! “You could have inserted the one available!” Is what he would have said. He is clutching at the tiny scraps he has.
The fact is, Dr Ravi was right. Funny that eh seeing as he is the one with decades of medical experience and with the actual patient in front of him!
The extensive pneumothorax continued to resolve as proved by the X-ray taken 10 hours later.
Despite those facts, on the stand BM goes on and on and on at Dr Ravi, about the drain being in the “wrong place”. Despite the baby clinically recovering and proof on a radiograph that the treatment was effective.

Mr Myers persisted, putting it to the paediatrician: 'You put it in the wrong part of the chest, didn't you?'
Dr Jayaram replied: 'I would disagree entirely. I was putting it in a place that was needed. In terms of clinical medicine, yes, there are recommendations, but pragmatically you have to deal with the situation in front of you'.
It did not surprise him that there was some movement as the lung re-expanded, but he rejected the suggestion that it had been 'somehow flapping up and down'.
Mr Myers: 'This was sub-optimal performance by you?'
The paediatrician rejected the allegation, saying: 'In your questioning of me you very much focus on process. The process is to achieve an outcome. It was about doing the right thing to get that drain in.
'We succeeded, and actually made H more stable'.

It’s pretty appalling treatment of Dr Ravi imo but hey. That’s the way it works. BM has to do this. He has to confuse you. Because what he wants you to believe is that this successful treatment led to….
Baby H having a fucking 22 minute cardiac arrest out of absolutely nowhere TWO DAYS LATER. Two days of clinical improvement to near death and then back to recovered until the next time letby is there. Found by baby H’s cot by Dr Neame despite not being the des.nurse. No clinical reason for the cardiac arrests. Happened just after parents left (as it does for 8 of the babies, 5 of those being deaths). Baby recovers rapidly. From 22 minutes with no heartbeat. With no cause.
The very next night, when parents are exhausted and finally try to go and get some sleep, it’s not long before they are back and another life threatening 6 minutes with NO viable heartbeat for baby H. With no explanation yet again.
She’s transferred and discharged soon after with not a single long term pervasive problem from nearly dying twice in quick succession. This doesn’t happen medically.

This is all before you take into account the fact that Letby has changed the time of this event on the records. She has said that the baby had a serious desaturation to 52% but the dad would have actually been there. Did the dad forget not witnessing his own baby go from stable to a serious desaturation, would he have left for a kip if that had just happened? Wouldn’t that stick with you? Especially if later your baby came close to dying?
Who has something to gain by changing that record?

Why does she go back and change a record for another baby to say she was with them at the time of baby H’s cardiac arrest? What could she gain by doing that. Why are there two errors coincidently like this for baby H’s collapses?
She records herself as being with a different baby at the time of the cardiac arrest but that’s not true:

Mr Johnson asks about Letby's error, as mentioned in her evidence, about the timing of the blood transfusion being completed. Letby said on May 15 the '0200 blood transfusion completed' should be 3am.
Letby says she has "miswritten" it from looking at the charts.
A blood infusion therapy chart is shown, in Letby's writing, which has in the time ended column what appears to be '0205' corrected to '0305'.
NJ: "The same mistake in two different places?"
Letby says she "couldn't say with clarity" adjusting the time after she had written her nursing notes.
NJ: "What happened after 0305?"
LL: "I don't recall."
NJ: "Really?...[Child H] had a cardiac arrest."
Letby is asked "how on earth" she made the 0205 error.
LL: "Because we're human people, we make mistakes."
Letby says the error is "mine" on the nursing notes, but the timings were otherwise accurate.
Letby says she cannot remember Child H's father being present.
The father recalled "mottling running out of her skin towards her fingers".
Letby says she agrees there was mottling on Child H's skin, but not that it was moving.

It’s another time she’s complaining about not having anything interesting to do, she’s scrolling Facebook and liking things. Then she says she’s been helping with baby H “but at least I have none of the responsibility”. Interesting. She makes no record of any of this help. It’s after this the baby has desats and blood that letby doesn’t record properly. And it’s after this that Alison Ventress finds the drains are almost out.
Baby H is another baby with bleeding. She removes a tube she shouldn’t have done when ALONE with baby H.
It’s all there with this one! Absolutely all there. There is no way that the procedure undertaken two days before and had been proven to be helping resolve baby H’s issues, that BM has tried to convince the jury was ‘wrong’, caused these events. Baby H was baptised for crying out loud, she almost died and then recovered and yet again Letby is there when she didn’t need to be.

Excellent post IMO. All I can add is that I needed to take my 6 week old son to the Countess for a blood sample. This was 17.5 years ago.

3 nurses tried to get a sample. My son was screaming and screaming and writhing. I felt helpless watching my baby in pain and distress.

Then 20 mins into the saga Dr. Ravi arrived and, in seconds, smoothly took the blood sample. It was a master class.

 

[O'lee]

Here's the bit I've done regarding what the article leaves out. The section critiquing the aspects of the article itself coming soon.....

Omissions regarding prosecution case
· Falsification of medical records to suggest a child was deteriorating or had an ongoing medical problem.

· Injuries to the livers of two babies from a set of triplets, Babies O and P, the first of which was described in court by neonatal pathologist Dr Andreas Marnerides as being consistent with impact type injury normally seen either in the context of road traffic collisions or “non accidental types of injury”. Dr Marnerides ruled out CPR as a potential cause of Baby O’s liver injury.

· As a follow on to the above point, the article fails to mention *any* of the evidence given in court by Doctor Marnerides or Professor Owen Arthurs, the prosecution’s expert radiologist.

· Letby’s animated and inappropriate behaviour in the aftermath of three of the babies’ deaths (Baby C, Baby I and Baby P)

· Letby’s deliberate and prolonged retention of handover sheets, including from her very early placements as a student nurse. She retained these sheets and took them with her from house to house, with some being found at her parent’s home in Hereford.

· A matter of weeks before the death of Baby A, Letby had completed a training course at Liverpool Women’s hospital, during which the dangers of air embolus via IV lines was mentioned. Shortly prior to her removal from the unit, when Letby knew she was under suspicion, she submitted a DATIX report in relation to the bung being left off an IV port and the potential risk of “accidental air embolus” that this presented. When interviewed by police, Letby stated that she had no training in relation to air embolism, was only aware of air embolism occurring in adults and that she was unaware of air embolism being an issue on the neonatal unit.

· The number of times that babies on the indictment collapsed shortly after their parents or nursing/medical staff had left the room.

· Child N: Severe bleeding from the throat that the prosecution expert haematologist ruled would not have been caused by his haemophilia.

· Child E: Mother went down to NNU to give milk to babies at around 9PM (Child F the other), heard Child E screaming uncontrollably and bleeding from mouth, was told to go back to the labour ward by Lucy Letby. Rang husband and relayed this information to him- phone records support this account, as does the husband’s recollection of the call, whereas paperwork by Letby puts the timing of the mum’s visit that night at 7:30-8PM

 

[Tofino]

On school run so can’t read all your posts yet but Yeeessssss!! A very quick, unanimous verdict too. I am so relieved that baby K and her family have received justice.

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

Writing a sympathy birthday card in advance to all three triplets who’s “ Birthday it was but they are all not here” after killing two in two days and having her sights on the third