yeah the point I was making is that it could have been said sinisterly but also out of context there could be more to it. I find it hard to believe it happened the way it’s been written with absolutely no further context. To me it sounds like she was very clumsily and awkwardly trying to offer reassurance not brag about havjng given her a bath first. That’s how it seems to me anyway
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The tv programme has no bearing on the caseReally think some contributors on this thread should be detectives working on this caseseriously though, some good food for thought, for example the TV programme she watched & when it was aired & other things, I wonder if the prosecution have considered!
Complications from air into the stomachs of neo-Nates is taught through training and majority if not all qualified nurses will have that knowledge and be aware of recognised complications so it’s not something she would have seen and tonight oh let’s do this
Yeah no I get that, the point I’m making is about context, maybe she tried to offer her a reassuring smile? That’s still her smiling. Surely if it happened the way it’s been documented without any further context the mother might have said something sooner? I dunno I’m just offering up an alternate view, like I said before not defending her
Or maybe the mother is remembering it as worse than it was, it can't be a nice memory, she's making this statement years later in the context of a murder enquiry. It may be that LL just tried to reassure like 'do you remember the First time we bathed him?' And if the mother engaged she may have continued the conversation. Perhaps the mother was so distressed that she misinterpreted the exchange.
None of us really know, and we have different opinions of what is acceptable. Personally I'd have stood in silence and allowed the family to have that moment with their child.
Regarding bereavement , you are taught to park element of it during training , about verbal communication and non -verbal but it’s one thing learning it on university and then putting it into practice
Yeah this is exactly what I meant!
But have you read the mothers description of the event?Yeah no I get that, the point I’m making is about context, maybe she tried to offer her a reassuring smile? That’s still her smiling. Surely if it happened the way it’s been documented without any further context the mother might have said something sooner? I dunno I’m just offering up an alternate view, like I said before not defending her
Think I’m inclined to believe the account of the grieving mother who will have given her account to police and no doubt watching the trial. Or will she be a conspiring to make everything ‘fit’ Letby for the crime too
Everyone’s getting very bogged down in the texts alone and inventing new mental health problems for LL etc there was quite a lot of other interesting medical points today also I thought.
As someone above pointed out a grieving mother may be mis remembering?Think I’m inclined to believe the account of the grieving mother who will have given her account to police and no doubt watching the trial. Or will she be a conspiring to make everything ‘fit’ Letby for the crime too
Everyone’s getting very bogged down in the texts alone and inventing new mental health problems for LL etc there was quite a lot of other interesting medical points today also I thought.
I wasn't taught anything about bereavement during training. The first time I had to deal with it I was a student nurse, a family called me into the room of a man who was dying and asked me to check if he had gone. I was completely out of my depth and the family actually make a comment that it shouldn't have been a student nurse who was around and attended.. no idea how I came across in that moment but I was terrified!
you’ve got a really good point here! I’ve worked with a couple of staff who are like that… get really caught up in it all… but they too tend to get a grip in the end! But like you say, it just takes one to take it too far. I do believe she liked being a part of all of the action and I think that could be how the prosecution develop a motive in this case… particularly with the sharing of the text messages this week… it’s like they’re trying to paint a picture of her being a drama Queen so they can draw upon it at a later date.
I agree with this - maybe not particularly misremembering, but say a comment about the bath did annoy her, any other action would only further fuel that. And especially then in the light of a murder trial, it would be easy to remember something in a more sinister way.
Must differ between unversities
I highly doubt it. I would imagine in that moment you would remember everything.
The problem is that we have no idea what the conversation was preceding that comment. Do we even know whether the mother was there for that first bath?. For all we know this could be a shared memory, or the mother could have initiated the conversation, or it could be in response to something else the mother had said. We are getting tiny snippets of information, it's madness to decide that a line in a piece of evidence shows something huge about her personality. We've already seen today that our understanding of the evidence can be massively affected by the reporting/way the prosecution presents things.
Is ‘everyone’ doing that tho
? Or was it just that one person who suggested she had ASD?
I think being on a neonatal ward it would be expected to have some sort of training around showing appropriate compassion during bad days for the babies and deaths but at the end of the day she’s a human and we all say things that we feel at the time may be of comfort and kick ourselves later when we reflect. If she’s not guilty it could just be she wanted to try and provide a memory for comfort and it wasn’t received well. Professionals are still human and they do have errors though- when my mother died I was a very young adult and when I went to the funeral directors to pay the bill the funeral director asked me how my mum was doing. They had already buried her at this point. I was so shocked and in such early stages of grief I didn’t really know what to say or how to respond. I just blurted out she’s still bleeping dead you buried her 3 weeks ago. I’m sure she kicks herself for that conversation I doubt she’s forgot it - a bit like I haven’t.
Obviously if Lucy is found guilty it will show a much more sinister and evil element to this instance though. I don’t want to believe she done it but it is a very real possibility. I’d like to see the trial through before committing to my own (irrelevant in the grand scheme) opinion though.
Obviously if Lucy is found guilty it will show a much more sinister and evil element to this instance though. I don’t want to believe she done it but it is a very real possibility. I’d like to see the trial through before committing to my own (irrelevant in the grand scheme) opinion though.
Quite conversely, traumatic experiences can actually render your episodic memory useless.
not gonna lie the labelling is bugging me! Don’t think everyone is doing it but there is a lot of speculation about her mental health, diagnosing her with various things etc… if she’s a murderer, she’s a murderer!!Is ‘everyone’ doing that tho
(side note… the ASD thing probably bugged me the most as I’m ASD and I’d never dream of killing or harming anyone!)
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