Lucy Letby Case #7

[I’mThankyou_]

It was like you were right there in the courtroom, at times absolutely heartbreaking with the level of detail and how much you could immerse yourself in the information. I think it made it really effective in piecing together the information and the arguments/evidence.

If I remember correctly, sometimes it'd be a constant stream of updates. You really could picture the scene in your head couldn't you.
I know Marks hands are tied as a lot of information he is prohibited to share, but some of the stuff he's missing that's coming out later in the day he could really do with getting on the live feed too, as sometimes the context is a little empty and confusing

 

[Ittybittytittyclub]

There is missing details from his reporting. There was more said about that on the bbc regarding her not wanting to be around them.

Yes I understand LL said she didn’t want to see the parents (which I find strange as she looked on their Facebook)

 

[candyland_]

Yes I understand LL said she didn’t want to see the parents (which I find strange as she looked on their Facebook)

I don’t find it strange because the other article said it was because the dad was crying on the floor as she took their baby to the mortuary.

 

[LittleMy]

I don’t really see it as shifting the blame. I think it’s sounds like what you might say when you swap a shift with someone (in retail for example) and you get a nightmare customer or something goes wrong. Like a ‘can’t believe I’m stuck with this, I’m not even supposed to be in today’ type of thing.

I worked in a frail and elderly unit for years and would often say something to that effect when someone sadly passed and I was on covering someone else’s shift. Nobody wants a death to occur on their shift, especially when you were only there as a favour. Unfortunately it’s just one of those things, but I don’t see it as shifting the blame. I agree with you here.

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Yes I understand LL said she didn’t want to see the parents (which I find strange as she looked on their Facebook)

Not the same? Facing someone, someone speaking to you, asking you questions is what I’d find hard. Looking up on Facebook seeing how they are doing from afar is totally different and they aren’t aware of it so it’s not like it would affect them as there is no interaction.

 

[da1sycha1n]

To me the messages come across as people who don't like her, don't want to engage and are giving her the shortest answers out of politeness but to get her to stop. We all have people like that who don't get the memo. I don't see why there is such an issue of debating in this thread without having to agree with eachother and shut the convo down. Surely it's better to agree we have different opinions and discuss them, bouncing things back and forward than this constant need to silence any discussion? I don't get it.

I don't see it as whoever she was conversing with her didn't like her, if it were me the reason for the polite short answers would be more a case of not wanting to discuss work matters

 

[I’mThankyou_]

According to the BBC article she replied to that colleague saying she wasn't even supposed to be in... again shifting blame. The more detail I get the more guilty these texts make her seem.

"Her colleague messaged that Ms Letby was "not having a great run at the moment", to which she replied: "I was not supposed to be in either."

I dont see it as shifting the blame
Her texts are sketchy, but I've often worked on a full moon and when it's all gone bits up often text our ward manager or said to her as she's walking in at 7am "don't ever put me on a full moon shift again"
Or if I've swapped a shift with a colleague and it's been a bad one I've said "that's the last time I take one of your shifts"
It can be taken as a dark humour aspect, but I can see how to some people who've obviously never been in those kind of scenarios before it looks like blame shifting.

 

[chocolatepanda6]

When you read the texts and what’s apps in full or at least more detail they really don’t seem as bad as initially reported . I just can’t understand why she kept saying she couldn’t remember searching for the families ? Was it a damage limitation exercise in that she knew it was against NHS policy to search for families so didn’t want to drop herself in it for that as well or didn’t she want to admit to being nosy ? The bit about the child looking like mum is strange

 

[Tofino]

If this is the amount of messaging going on between staff after just child a’s death then it will be interesting to see what the discussions were as more deaths and collapses occur.


Nicholas garnett said the jury have been shown 400 slides for just one baby

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

Letby says: "Don't mind being in [nursery room] 1 but don't want to have [Child B]."

The colleague offers to look after Child B, with Letby also present in the room. Letby agrees and says: "I think it'd be good for you."

She added, in another message: "...I can't look after [Child B] because I just don't know how to feel seeing parents..."

She also wasn't the baby B's designated nurse and was supposed to be in another room looking after 2 other babies. The baby's designated nurse was working - so wouldn't have needed LL to look after her patient. She also took this baby's handover sheet home. Why would she have the sheet if she wasn't the designated nurse and hadn't wanted to look after the baby in the first place?

To me, it seems like setting up the other nurse to be the designated nurse for baby B (that nurse is officially on the records) so in case of problems, the designated nurse would get into trouble. And the designated nurse would be held responsible by the parents.

She managed to swap the designation from her to the other nurse, while still attending to the baby. That makes no sense.

Also the designated nurse would have gotten into trouble over the handover sheet that LL took home. Because it wasn't LL's name on it so no one would have thought she had it.

Regarding the handover sheet , myself and other nurses have said that we do often take them home at end of shifts forgetting to empty pockets and majority of the time we do get rid of them or they lie at bottoms of bags
Also my handovers and I’m sure it’s the same for other departments , they contain all patients and all relevant information pertaining to each patient so we know about them in case we have to cover for breaks , lunches , if another nurse is busy or if they are doing theatre runs

 

[Tofino]

Not the same? Facing someone, someone speaking to you, asking you questions is what I’d find hard. Looking up on Facebook seeing how they are doing from afar is totally different and they aren’t aware of it so it’s not like it would affect them as there is no interaction.

Doesnt affect them until they are told their baby might have been murdered and the suspect looked them up on Facebook multiple times.

 

[Annyct]

even though I work in the nursing profession , I’m totally not shocked at what current nursing standards are like
You have the Shrewsbury maternity scandal , mid Staffordshire scandal , Bristol heart scandal . Hundreds of adults and babies have all died due to shocking care so there will be occasions where nurses will get away with bad behaviour

i was given wrong medication by a nurse who was either drunk or had been drinking when I was in an nhs neurological rehabilitation unit. People put nurses and drs on pedastals but I’ve seen firsthand that they are all still human and capable of monumentally bleeping up

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I worked in a frail and elderly unit for years and would often say something to that effect when someone sadly passed and I was on covering someone else’s shift. Nobody wants a death to occur on their shift, especially when you were only there as a favour. Unfortunately it’s just one of those things, but I don’t see it as shifting the blame. I agree with you here.

I dont see it as shifting the blame
Her texts are sketchy, but I've often worked on a full moon and when it's all gone bits up often text our ward manager or said to her as she's walking in at 7am "don't ever put me on a full moon shift again"
Or if I've swapped a shift with a colleague and it's been a bad one I've said "that's the last time I take one of your shifts"
It can be taken as a dark humour aspect, but I can see how to some people who've obviously never been in those kind of scenarios before it looks like blame shifting.

Just quoting you two together as you both replied to me.
But surely elderly die more frequently? I can understand gallows humour in those scenarios. I just don't understand it in this case.
Wasn't the average before the years in question 3 baby deaths a year? Now it's jumped up to 3 in the last month in these scenarios. I don't think the gallows humour applies here because something is clearly very wrong.

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Doesnt affect them until they are told their baby might have been murdered and the suspect looked them up on Facebook multiple times.

that’s not what the person I quoted was talking about though? She said at the time she didn’t want to face the parents so didn’t want to look after baby B. So I was saying that it’s hard to face someone in person even so for the parents but looking them up at the time is not. After time she may have been comfortable facing them in person? Whereas this is talking about straight after the death of baby A

 

[dustyrhodes]

I dont see it as shifting the blame
Her texts are sketchy, but I've often worked on a full moon and when it's all gone bits up often text our ward manager or said to her as she's walking in at 7am "don't ever put me on a full moon shift again"
Or if I've swapped a shift with a colleague and it's been a bad one I've said "that's the last time I take one of your shifts"
It can be taken as a dark humour aspect, but I can see how to some people who've obviously never been in those kind of scenarios before it looks like blame shifting.

This is absolutely key imo.

 

[Deeznutslol]

Just quoting you two together as you both replied to me.
But surely elderly die more frequently? I can understand gallows humour in those scenarios. I just don't understand it in this cade.
Wasn't the average before the years in question 3 baby deaths a year? Now it's jumped up to 3 in the last month in these scenarios. I don't think the gallows humour applies here because something is clearly very wrong.

Did LL even make any dead baby jokes?

 

[I’mThankyou_]

Just quoting you two together as you both replied to me.
But surely elderly die more frequently? I can understand gallows humour in those scenarios. I just don't understand it in this cade.
Wasn't the average before the years in question 3 baby deaths a year? Now it's jumped up to 3 in the last month in these scenarios. I don't think the gallows humour applies here because something is clearly very wrong.

I think it can absolutely apply here.
I had a dark sense of humour (for the want of a better word) regarding death long before I worked for the NHS.
It all depends on her as a person and how she handles things, we haven't heard anything about her character so I can only assume there could be relevant trauma somewhere in her life where she would have some sort of dark humour surrounding these kinds of things.
And as above has said, it wasn't dead baby jokes, it's just banter around luck of a shift.
Even without a baby passing a shift could be absolutely tit, and you'd still say "oh that's the last time I agree to a shift swap" or words to that effect

 

[LittleMy]

I was just explaining that it’s a throwaway remark that many HCPs might make. Other people will see it differently, but from my perspective as a former healthcare worker that’s how I took what she said. “I wasn’t even meant to be there.”

 

[dustyrhodes]

Lots of evidence to ponder but I must say there is nothing yet that would make me say she's guilty of murders and attempted murders

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Did LL even make any dead baby jokes?

She said something like ‘I’m never going to swap shifts with you again haha’ after the baby A death.
I agree with others that it’s dark humour but doesn’t mean anything more (to me anyway)