Lucy Letby Case #69

[Tofino]

Last thread here

Lucy Letby Case #68

Last thread here https://tattle.life/threads/lucy-letby-case-67.41250/ There is an extensive wiki (top right pink button also link here https://tattle.life/wiki/lucy-letby-case/ ) collating 10 months worth of trial reports organised into sections. Often the answers to your questions can be...

tattle.life

Recent updates:

Inquiry:
The government announced the inquiry WILL be statutory, meaning witnesses can be forced to give evidence under oath.Lady Justice Thirlwall will lead the inquiry.

Steve Barclay, Secretary of State for Health and Social Care, inquiry statement here:

https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/2023-09-04/debates/B18741EB-DC54-40D6-98B8-76FB066FFB26/details

Potential Retrial:
A hearing is being held on 25th September where the cps will announce if they will seek a retrial on the charges where no verdict was found.

 

[tinkertailorsoldierspy]

Devastated to hear about the Nottingham hospital investigation. I can't imagine another Letby / Allitt .
Although it is obviously good that things are being investigated and not just swept under the carpet or ignored.

 

[Serene Serena]

I’ve missed the Nottingham hospital investigation - what’s happened there? Thanks in advance x

 

[terfette]

Is Mark ok? Or can he just not think things through before he says them because he’s so busy wanking himself at the thought of being Lucifers White Knight?

I’ve never seen this level of mental gymnastics before, ever.

“nothing has been changed”

But you’ve left parts out like the bits that say “I killed them On purpose” and “I did this” etc and only one of the sentences you did include is the same

and why would a Craig David song include Lucifers cats?

 

[LuLuHonourLuLu]

I’ve missed the Nottingham hospital investigation - what’s happened there? Thanks in advance x

It sounds more like investigations into incompetence and neglect - not deliberate harming. Still a bit worrying though, obviously.

 

[Serene Serena]

It sounds more like investigations into incompetence and neglect - not deliberate harming. Still a bit worrying though, obviously.

Thank you. I’d imagine neonatal units everywhere are being hyper-vigilant these days. We don’t want another Lucifer Letby.

 

[SkiesOfBlue]

Any Tattlers in the legal/senior police world who could offer their feelings on the likelihood of a retrial for the poor little babies where no verdict could be reached? I really don't know enough about this type of thing at all so I'm wondering if the CPS feel that the whole life tarriffs are sufficient and a retrial would be expensive and time consuming or whether they they feel aggrieved and disappointed for the families who didn't get justice? Am curious as to how the CPS reaches a decision.

 

[Tofino]

From reading more into it I think the police investigations for Nottingham along with Shrewsbury and Telford are to investigate corporate or individual manslaughter through poor care rather than deliberate harm like Letby. Although who knows what the investigations will bring up. Either way it’s shocking the scale of poor care across the country that women and babies have received. Even at COCH, they were prepared to just ignore the increase of deaths and collapses.
---

Any Tattlers in the legal/senior police world who could offer their feelings on the likelihood of a retrial for the poor little babies where no verdict could be reached? I really don't know enough about this type of thing at all so I'm wondering if the CPS feel that the whole life tarriffs are sufficient and a retrial would be expensive and time consuming or whether they they feel aggrieved and disappointed for the families who didn't get justice? Am curious as to how the CPS reaches a decision.

I’ve wondered this. I’m wondering if there is a precedent. Maybe our resident HCSK expert @MmmB777 can remind us about any further charges for Allitt and Shipman?

I think the biggest obstacle will be ‘fair trial’ when so much has been made public and very high profile since the verdicts. But I don’t know if CPS will care for that and leave defence to argue it?

I would like to think CPS have consulted with those four families without a verdict and I hope that will be the biggest driver. If the families want justice for their baby then I want them to be given another opportunity. If they really can’t face going through it all again and are satisfied she has a WLO anyway then I also hope that is respected. So maybe we will see a retrial on some and not others?

I think it might be babu G where she was found guilty on one charge of attempted murder but no verdict on the others so I expect those ones will be dropped.

 

[tinkertailorsoldierspy]

I've been reading further too and agree it looks as though it's poor care rather than a deliberate act. I just assumed when I saw the headlines that it had happened again.
Awful though still. Hopefully not too many babies have been affected.

 

[Tofino]

I know this is going off on a slight tangent but I’ve just seen this - a hospital trust charged with corporate manslaughter and a ward manager charged with gross negligent manslaughter for the death of a 22 year old (poor care).

I would like to see criminal charges against individual senior execs at COCH but I’m fearful there won’t be enough evidence.

NHS trust and ward manager are charged over death of woman, 22

Alice Figueiredo, 22, died at Goodmayes Hospital in the London borough of Redbridge on July 7, 2015, after allegedly receiving poor treatment.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[sebanna]

Is Mark ok? Or can he just not think things through before he says them because he’s so busy wanking himself at the thought of being Lucifers White Knight?

I’ve never seen this level of mental gymnastics before, ever.

“nothing has been changed”

But you’ve left parts out like the bits that say “I killed them On purpose” and “I did this” etc and only one of the sentences you did include is the same

and why would a Craig David song include Lucifers cats?

View attachment 2432453

View attachment 2432454

I don't get all the p*ssing about with the post it notes. Yes, of course Lucy felt very anguish and panicked she been murdering her patients, she hoped no one would notice but after she was taken off the ward and told of an investigation she was absolutely terrified of the truth coming out. She had no empathy for the babies who had their whole lives stolen or their families who were in agony it was all about her and how the truth was going to mess up her life. She put all her hope in Dr No name, Karen Rees and the Bergerac women and tried to manipulate them with the poor little Lucy routine. The post it notes were about her trying to process her fear of being found out.

 

[wine o clock]

Any Tattlers in the legal/senior police world who could offer their feelings on the likelihood of a retrial for the poor little babies where no verdict could be reached? I really don't know enough about this type of thing at all so I'm wondering if the CPS feel that the whole life tarriffs are sufficient and a retrial would be expensive and time consuming or whether they they feel aggrieved and disappointed for the families who didn't get justice? Am curious as to how the CPS reaches a decision.

I think they may have more charges by this point … not legal or medical me btw xx but I watched them police in that court … they wernt protecting their jobs like the hospital management … they had raw emotion bringing this c@nt to justice !!!! Think they will try their best … I’m very unsure how they would get a unbiased jury tho next time … I’d actually consider saying I’ve never heard of her if I was called !!! (Jokes) xx

 

[MmmB777]

From reading more into it I think the police investigations for Nottingham along with Shrewsbury and Telford are to investigate corporate or individual manslaughter through poor care rather than deliberate harm like Letby. Although who knows what the investigations will bring up. Either way it’s shocking the scale of poor care across the country that women and babies have received. Even at COCH, they were prepared to just ignore the increase of deaths and collapses.
---


I’ve wondered this. I’m wondering if there is a precedent. Maybe our resident HCSK expert @MmmB777 can remind us about any further charges for Allitt and Shipman?

I think the biggest obstacle will be ‘fair trial’ when so much has been made public and very high profile since the verdicts. But I don’t know if CPS will care for that and leave defence to argue it?

I would like to think CPS have consulted with those four families without a verdict and I hope that will be the biggest driver. If the families want justice for their baby then I want them to be given another opportunity. If they really can’t face going through it all again and are satisfied she has a WLO anyway then I also hope that is respected. So maybe we will see a retrial on some and not others?

I think it might be babu G where she was found guilty on one charge of attempted murder but no verdict on the others so I expect those ones will be dropped.

So I initially thought Shipman had been found guilty of more murders but @Lincoln34 correctly said that the further victims were mentioned in the inquiry but he was never formally charged with more than the 15 (I think) he was convicted of. Despite them fearing there are hundreds and hundreds of victims. Strikes me as a really awful thing to live with if you can feel fairly certain Shipman killed your family member and I think it’s safe to say he killed every single person found dead at one of his home visits I presume the lack of further charges was because it wouldn’t be deemed a fair trial.
I think it’s similar with Cullen, even though he confessed to a lot, he is predicted to have killed in the hundreds. Think he’s convicted of around 30.

I am trying to look up Bev and now wondering if I must have read fake news on this as can’t find anything about it 🫣 I am sure I read that she had poisoned a friend’s brother and an old lady in a care home in Peterborough! But I can’t find a thing about it now not sure I’ve earned my expert title constantly get it all muddled up

 

[wine o clock]

So I initially thought Shipman had been found guilty of more murders but @Lincoln34 correctly said that the further victims were mentioned in the inquiry but he was never formally charged with more than the 15 (I think) he was convicted of. Despite them fearing there are hundreds and hundreds of victims. Strikes me as a really awful thing to live with if you can feel fairly certain Shipman killed your family member and I think it’s safe to say he killed every single person found dead at one of his home visits I presume the lack of further charges was because it wouldn’t be deemed a fair trial.
I think it’s similar with Cullen, even though he confessed to a lot, he is predicted to have killed in the hundreds. Think he’s convicted of around 30.

I am trying to look up Bev and now wondering if I must have read fake news on this as can’t find anything about it 🫣 I am sure I read that she had poisoned a friend’s brother and an old lady in a care home in Peterborough! But I can’t find a thing about it now not sure I’ve earned my expert title constantly get it all muddled up

There is a programme on bev … 3 parts … imo that’s first thing I said to daughter when we came out of court .. “my god her voice is like allits … she said who is allitt xx

allit did inject a elderly woman in a care home … but I think she survived xx

tbh I think the police work with what they can … if they can life a serial killer off they will … it’s a shame a tragic shame that some families don’t get justice … but rather the witch be lifed off than adding loads of cases they can’t prove an put doubt in jury’s mind xxx

awful for parents who didn’t get any closure … really awful !!!! But I think it be worse if the freak walked free… that witch would be gloating sending post its and sympathy cards … demanding apologies. That rank bugger is rite where she belongs xx I’m sure to god the parents of the babies she found guilty Include the parents of the babies they couldn’t decide on xx we all know she has been murdering since she started !!! Keeping her 1st trophy of her first day!!!! Proving it is sadly never gona happen xx Bloody heartbreaking!!!! Xx

 

[Tofino]

I hadn’t seen this before now but it’s confirmed 5 of the babies in the trial were from Wales.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2023-09-05/lucy-letby-five-babies-involved-in-trial-from-wales

 

[sebanna]

I hadn’t seen this before now but it’s confirmed 5 of the babies in the trial were from Wales.

https://www.itv.com/news/wales/2023-09-05/lucy-letby-five-babies-involved-in-trial-from-wales

I did wonder how many of babies were from Wales, when we were analysing the chart last weekend. North Wales borders Chester so its not really surprising, there are a limited number of NICU cots so babies can be moved around.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

So I initially thought Shipman had been found guilty of more murders but @Lincoln34 correctly said that the further victims were mentioned in the inquiry but he was never formally charged with more than the 15 (I think) he was convicted of. Despite them fearing there are hundreds and hundreds of victims. Strikes me as a really awful thing to live with if you can feel fairly certain Shipman killed your family member and I think it’s safe to say he killed every single person found dead at one of his home visits I presume the lack of further charges was because it wouldn’t be deemed a fair trial.
I think it’s similar with Cullen, even though he confessed to a lot, he is predicted to have killed in the hundreds. Think he’s convicted of around 30.

I am trying to look up Bev and now wondering if I must have read fake news on this as can’t find anything about it 🫣 I am sure I read that she had poisoned a friend’s brother and an old lady in a care home in Peterborough! But I can’t find a thing about it now not sure I’ve earned my expert title constantly get it all muddled up

I definitely read about her having been suspected of poisonings while out on bail, or suspended, but I don’t know if charges were brought.
You’re not going daft, unless I am too!

 

[Katkitkat]

Any Tattlers in the legal/senior police world who could offer their feelings on the likelihood of a retrial for the poor little babies where no verdict could be reached? I really don't know enough about this type of thing at all so I'm wondering if the CPS feel that the whole life tarriffs are sufficient and a retrial would be expensive and time consuming or whether they they feel aggrieved and disappointed for the families who didn't get justice? Am curious as to how the CPS reaches a decision.

I don't know much but I do know there is a two stage test where the CPS are making a decision on whether to charge somebody, I don't know if they will consider this for a retrial but I guess they would because would she be being recharged?

So The CPS must decide first whether there is enough evidence, there must be a realistic chance of a conviction. Now, because they already tried for these cases and were not successful I'm sure this will be considered. Maybe they have found more evidence, maybe they could present the evidence in a different way.
Then we have the public interest test - is it in the public interest to take it to trial? The answer would be yes of course it is because it's regarding the harm and murder of babies by someone in a trusted position. Also her victims require justice.
However saying that, again they will have to take into account that they already tried this. Is it worth spending public funds on a retrial when they could end up with the same result? Also she's already been convicted and sentenced to multiple WLOs so would the public be happy to have her retried? I mean you'd hope so but as we've seen there are many weirdos out there who may think otherwise! bleeping nutjobs.

I hope they do retry her for the babies where they couldn't reach a verdict, they and their families need justice. Maybe they will include them with any other cases they've found which they now intend to charge her with.

 

[Hazara04]

I did wonder how many of babies were from Wales, when we were analysing the chart last weekend. North Wales borders Chester so its not really surprising, there are a limited number of NICU cots so babies can be moved around.

The COCH is the nearest hospital for many people living in Flintshire. I live in North Wales and had the option to go to Chester or Wrexham Maelor. I had my eldest son in Chester in May 2015 (thankfully born full term without any complications so didn't spend any time on the neonatal unit) and youngest 2 in Wrexham.

 

[Serene Serena]

I'm in North Wales and one of my friends had her son at 25 weeks gestation, he was nursed at the COC, thankfully after LL had been suspended. Little fella is now almost 2, walking and talking and tantrumming like any other 2yo.