I don’t remember her ever being asked that. I wonder where on earth she kept these papers that were found later though. I assume they searched her car even though I don’t think it’s been mentioned.
I don’t remember her ever being asked that. I wonder where on earth she kept these papers that were found later though. I assume they searched her car even though I don’t think it’s been mentioned.Yeah and there is an officer on the police doc that says it too which made me just watch the crime scene to court room on it again. I don’t know why I didn’t take in the enormity of it previously but I think it’s HUGE and she absolutely should have been asked where the hell she got them from as they weren’t there on the first search. Really troubling. I wonder what else she hid away from both properties. Now my brain is trying to remember if she was questioned on the stand about being at her property after arrest one when she shouldn’t have returned- possibly when BNE gave her the social media bundle it was mentionedcould be wrong.
Totally agree with Dewi and the parents but you’re right he had to make sure she had a fair trial. Best thing he could have done was let her take the stand though, it was only going one way after that.I’ve wondered if the mindset is actually ‘my job is to make sure it’s a fair trial so justice is served’ rather than thinking his job is trying to get her aquitted. I struggle with a few of the things he’s done, like some of his comments to parents during cross examination and also trying to get all of Dewi Evans’ evidence thrown out. But if he didn’t do these things then maybe she would have grounds for appeal, I don’t know.
I think it’s well known that psychopaths and wronguns often seek out a career in nursing/the medical field to have easy access to victims. However, I think trying to paint out like there’s an endemic of these people in the nursing profession is not helpful and I actually find it offensive. It’s also not helpful at all, nurses have already had their time being demonised by the media and I think it’s coming again, all it will do is make people leave the profession even faster than they already are and will stop new people from picking it as a career. That then leaves more room for the few Letbys out there to go unnoticed. Please stop trying to make out like the nursing field is filled with malignant psychopaths because it is just not true.It will be very interesting to me if some of the parents wish to break the court ordered anonymity and what or if any legal actions will be taken against them. In Australia several years ago a survivor of CSA wished to speak out and the anonymity order about her case prevented her from doing so. She fought a protracted legal battle to be permitted to name herself. For the rights of every SA survivor to make the decision to break the anonymity order on their own cases.
Her name is Grace Tame. (Pron. Tar-May) She is a courageous & fascinating young woman whose own tragedy and trauma has wounded but not beaten her. When she finally won the right to tell her story, to name the names she wanted known beginning with her own, the depths of the complicity by education, health, police and judicial authorities in her on-going abuse by a teacher and in the efforts taken to exonerate him were finally known.
When all Letby's appeals have been exhausted and those bereaved families can finally tell all they know without risk of giving Lucy-Fer any technicality of evidence to hang a plea for mercy on, I think the breadth of this cover-up at the hospital, the identity of "Dr Dreamy" , his role and level of influence with the managers, the nurses' union officials' role & level of influence in this wall of protection erected around her will be known. I think there are a lot more people with very dark questions to answer in all of this. Her over-indulgent parents among them.
If she has MBP or Factitious Disorder Inflicted on Others as they call it now, that is almost always done by a very specific group in society.
98% are women
96% of them are mothers between the ages of 25-40
They are typically married and overwhelmingly have a history of working in health & medical fields. It is less common than many think that they showed signs of having had Munchausen's (harming or feigning illness in themselves) before MBP. Ailitt (sp??) did. Letby doesn't appear to. Though I'm suspicious about that. She whined "Be careful I had knee surgery!" as they put her in the cop car. And daddy had driven 100 miles to look after her when she was released from hospital after that surgery. So maybe she did. No one has mentioned it and I recall the Beverley Ailtt trial very well. It was quite a prominent feature of that case. How many days for "being ill" she had off work & Uni.
I have deep suspicions that these stats aren't telling the whole story of Munchausen's tbh with you. I wonder how many more nurses and personal carers there are out there doing this not only to babies & children in their care but to the elderly and the disabled. Being better able to disguise their behaviours. Aided by having workplaces where lax regulation, lack of security and a culture of covering each others arses allow them to go undetected.
Every time a doctor or a nurse is caught killing patients we get "OMG how could anyone have ever dreamed a doctor/nurse could do such things!"
Ffs. These are just some of the more salacious cases since the year 2000.
Beverley Allitt
Elizabeth Wettlauffer (Canada)
Colin Campbell (Scotland)
Niels Hoegel (Germany)
Daniela Poggiali (Italy)
Charles Cullen who is interestingly enough, New Jersey's most prolific serial killer. I imagine that takes some doing.
Stephan Letter - (Germany)
Kimberley Saenz (US)
Kristen Gilbert (US) She killed disabled war veterans
Petr Zelenka (Poland)
Then there was the lesbian couple Cathy Wood & Gwendolyn Graham (US) a decade earlier who did private nursing & killed as a romantic adventure. Alzheimer's patients mostly. It was a real geriatric Hindley & Brady dynamic they had going on.
Should we not ask our health authorities to do a bit more due diligence on this? Some of these people have scores of over a hundred victims. They make Harold Shipman look positively under achieving.
We know that kiddie fiddlers seek professions which allow them to interact with their preferred target. Teaching, coaching, "Youth Pastors" bus driving etc.
Why would it be out of order to suggest that people with MPB seek out jobs in healthcare for similar motivations? Maybe there should be closer observation of what goes on in those wards. After all, we get observed fairly closely in Tesco. The technology exists.
EDIT:
Sorry I forgot to link the book all these stats on MPD came from. I'm a TC nutter in my spare time & this genre of killers fascinates me. Yes I own that book. In paperback.
I never claimed not to be a nutter - see above.
Amazon product
I mean.. this is fucking weird but fyi no nurse is walking around with needles in their pocket.Just out of curiosity....
If you have something like a venflon, and you put a hollow needle in the valve, then squeeze the tube to stop the flow of liquid above the valve - so that there is no liquid in the valve (and of course nature abhors a vacuum (a bit like my back bedroom)) - would that create an air bubble that would then be pumped directly into the body when you stop pinching the tube to allow the liquid to flow again?
Leaving you free to remove the hollow needle, that you have no idea how it got into your pocket - it must have broken off a syringe - should anyone ask - not that they will because you have disposed of it in the sharps bin.
Asking for a friend who is a fiction writer - of the cheapest pulp variety.
Exactly....it really is sickeningOh I don’t doubt she probably did something at LWH - especially if families are coming forward from 2012 and 2013. Unlike some people, LL didn’t just snap, so I feel like there probably was some instances of ‘unexplained’ harm. It would not surprise me if in the coming years she gets charged with other things (similar to how Bellfield was charged with Milly Dowler’s death years later).
Haven't heard it called a venflon for so many years and I find that a bizarre question. As a nurse my answer is I haven't a clue, I've never tried to deliberately harm a patient.Just out of curiosity....
If you have something like a venflon, and you put a hollow needle in the valve, then squeeze the tube to stop the flow of liquid above the valve - so that there is no liquid in the valve (and of course nature abhors a vacuum (a bit like my back bedroom)) - would that create an air bubble that would then be pumped directly into the body when you stop pinching the tube to allow the liquid to flow again?
Leaving you free to remove the hollow needle, that you have no idea how it got into your pocket - it must have broken off a syringe - should anyone ask - not that they will because you have disposed of it in the sharps bin.
Asking for a friend who is a fiction writer - of the cheapest pulp variety.
Yeah I’m sure they moved the car so no doubt it was fully searched extensively. They fingertip searched her guttering (I don’t remember her ever being asked that. I wonder where on earth she kept these papers that were found later though. I assume they searched her car even though I don’t think it’s been mentioned.
https://giphy.com/fHohwRjqJRzjcyO4dKJust out of curiosity....
If you have something like a venflon, and you put a hollow needle in the valve, then squeeze the tube to stop the flow of liquid above the valve - so that there is no liquid in the valve (and of course nature abhors a vacuum (a bit like my back bedroom)) - would that create an air bubble that would then be pumped directly into the body when you stop pinching the tube to allow the liquid to flow again?
Leaving you free to remove the hollow needle, that you have no idea how it got into your pocket - it must have broken off a syringe - should anyone ask - not that they will because you have disposed of it in the sharps bin.
Asking for a friend who is a fiction writer - of the cheapest pulp variety.
It’s not pronounced Tar-may, it’s pronounced Tame, like the opposite of wild. Not sure where you got that? Watch the Australian of the Year awards.It will be very interesting to me if some of the parents wish to break the court ordered anonymity and what or if any legal actions will be taken against them. In Australia several years ago a survivor of CSA wished to speak out and the anonymity order about her case prevented her from doing so. She fought a protracted legal battle to be permitted to name herself. For the rights of every SA survivor to make the decision to break the anonymity order on their own cases.
Her name is Grace Tame. (Pron. Tar-May) She is a courageous & fascinating young woman whose own tragedy and trauma has wounded but not beaten her. When she finally won the right to tell her story, to name the names she wanted known beginning with her own, the depths of the complicity by education, health, police and judicial authorities in her on-going abuse by a teacher and in the efforts taken to exonerate him were finally known.
When all Letby's appeals have been exhausted and those bereaved families can finally tell all they know without risk of giving Lucy-Fer any technicality of evidence to hang a plea for mercy on, I think the breadth of this cover-up at the hospital, the identity of "Dr Dreamy" , his role and level of influence with the managers, the nurses' union officials' role & level of influence in this wall of protection erected around her will be known. I think there are a lot more people with very dark questions to answer in all of this. Her over-indulgent parents among them.
If she has MBP or Factitious Disorder Inflicted on Others as they call it now, that is almost always done by a very specific group in society.
98% are women
96% of them are mothers between the ages of 25-40
They are typically married and overwhelmingly have a history of working in health & medical fields. It is less common than many think that they showed signs of having had Munchausen's (harming or feigning illness in themselves) before MBP. Ailitt (sp??) did. Letby doesn't appear to. Though I'm suspicious about that. She whined "Be careful I had knee surgery!" as they put her in the cop car. And daddy had driven 100 miles to look after her when she was released from hospital after that surgery. So maybe she did. No one has mentioned it and I recall the Beverley Ailtt trial very well. It was quite a prominent feature of that case. How many days for "being ill" she had off work & Uni.
I have deep suspicions that these stats aren't telling the whole story of Munchausen's tbh with you. I wonder how many more nurses and personal carers there are out there doing this not only to babies & children in their care but to the elderly and the disabled. Being better able to disguise their behaviours. Aided by having workplaces where lax regulation, lack of security and a culture of covering each others arses allow them to go undetected.
Every time a doctor or a nurse is caught killing patients we get "OMG how could anyone have ever dreamed a doctor/nurse could do such things!"
Ffs. These are just some of the more salacious cases since the year 2000.
Beverley Allitt
Elizabeth Wettlauffer (Canada)
Colin Campbell (Scotland)
Niels Hoegel (Germany)
Daniela Poggiali (Italy)
Charles Cullen who is interestingly enough, New Jersey's most prolific serial killer. I imagine that takes some doing.
Stephan Letter - (Germany)
Kimberley Saenz (US)
Kristen Gilbert (US) She killed disabled war veterans
Petr Zelenka (Poland)
Then there was the lesbian couple Cathy Wood & Gwendolyn Graham (US) a decade earlier who did private nursing & killed as a romantic adventure. Alzheimer's patients mostly. It was a real geriatric Hindley & Brady dynamic they had going on.
Should we not ask our health authorities to do a bit more due diligence on this? Some of these people have scores of over a hundred victims. They make Harold Shipman look positively under achieving.
We know that kiddie fiddlers seek professions which allow them to interact with their preferred target. Teaching, coaching, "Youth Pastors" bus driving etc.
Why would it be out of order to suggest that people with MPB seek out jobs in healthcare for similar motivations? Maybe there should be closer observation of what goes on in those wards. After all, we get observed fairly closely in Tesco. The technology exists.
EDIT:
Sorry I forgot to link the book all these stats on MPD came from. I'm a TC nutter in my spare time & this genre of killers fascinates me. Yes I own that book. In paperback.
I never claimed not to be a nutter - see above.
Amazon product
Her friend Daft Dawn said Lucy had always wanted to be a nurse to give back because her own birth was apparently difficult.
Bet her poor mum couldn’t push that massive chin out.
I think she was probably suspended on the first arrest, and then a HR investigation. It’s possible she was dismissed anywhere between the first and last. They can also do it depending on how she informed her line manager too - so if she didn’t call them in a timely manner after it then they could have dismissed her on that.Morning Tattlers! I've not contributed to these threads but have dipped in and out during the trial, hats off to everyone for (mostly) having intelligent discussions, and of course a big thanks to those who have attended court and fed back what they could, it's been hard going just reading about it so I can't imagine how tough it must have been to be there in person.
Just something I was wondering about - do we know how the NHS trust dealt with her employment after the first arrest? Obviously she was moved off the unit and into the admin role, but following that, was she suspended and then dismissed when she was arrested for the last time in 2020? As someone who works in HR I've been trying to work out what would be the best course of action - once she was in custody they could dismiss her for frustration of contract, but prior to that it feels a bit of a grey area. You can't dismiss someone because they "might" have done something, yet with those allegations surely they couldn't still have her in the hospital (although given the rest of the cover up shitshow it wouldn't be a surprise). If she was suspended she would have been receiving full pay for sitting on her arse being pandered to by mummy and daddy, telling her she was the best nurse ever and of course everyone knew she hadn't done anything wrong and the nasty police were picking on her etc
I wasn't suggesting anything.Sorry?! Which handover notes will have come from Dr A and when? She didn’t borrow his car. He gave her a lift after the death of one of the triplets. That is incredibly farfetched imo. Are you suggesting he kept them and gave them back to her? They don’t belong to her. They’re confidential patient documents. Killing me softly is written on paper and found in the garage at her own house on second house search. The 6 handover sheets were found at her parents’ property on the second house search. They were not there previously. She says her friendship with Dr A ended early 2018 pre her first arrest.
That's killed me off for todayHer friend Daft Dawn said Lucy had always wanted to be a nurse to give back because her own birth was apparently difficult.
Bet her poor mum couldn’t push that massive chin out.
Well even weirder because her parent’s property was searched on the exact same dates and times as her own house searches. So no they weren’t always there but appeared there, in her room, kept in the empty shredder box with a label marked “keep” written on it. At some point between arrest one and arrest two.That is really weird, how she had the notes between arrests. Does that mean she always had a batch at her parents' house and that she anticipated she might lose her main collection?
Can't cope@RR20
Fyi we have absolutely no proof of a problem at her birth except Dawn saying it. I'm sure BM would have mentioned it.
It's probably 99.9% something Letby (her or Mum) have made up or embellished for sympathy/manipulation/her mum using it as a reason to be overbearing.
But the 0.01% is definitely chin related
It's got nothing to do with his abilities as a doctor either. I know his comment to LL about it not being her, it's the babies sounds shocking, I do think he meant it was their underlying conditions that led to their deterioration.I guess he can still deny it to her, as none of us know whether he actually cheated beyond their “days out” or whatever. I don’t see how it would ruin his livelihood or professional life? Was he anonymised in court even? I doubt it?
I wondered the same. I think we would go with frustration of contract/SOSR or potentially reputational damage? It would have to be done in liaison with the police to ensure if does not affect their investigation.Morning Tattlers! I've not contributed to these threads but have dipped in and out during the trial, hats off to everyone for (mostly) having intelligent discussions, and of course a big thanks to those who have attended court and fed back what they could, it's been hard going just reading about it so I can't imagine how tough it must have been to be there in person.
Just something I was wondering about - do we know how the NHS trust dealt with her employment after the first arrest? Obviously she was moved off the unit and into the admin role, but following that, was she suspended and then dismissed when she was arrested for the last time in 2020? As someone who works in HR I've been trying to work out what would be the best course of action - once she was in custody they could dismiss her for frustration of contract, but prior to that it feels a bit of a grey area. You can't dismiss someone because they "might" have done something, yet with those allegations surely they couldn't still have her in the hospital (although given the rest of the cover up shitshow it wouldn't be a surprise). If she was suspended she would have been receiving full pay for sitting on her arse being pandered to by mummy and daddy, telling her she was the best nurse ever and of course everyone knew she hadn't done anything wrong and the nasty police were picking on her etc
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