Lucy Letby Case #64 Guilty

[Dolly Daydreaming]

Hi gingers xx I'm on the train now to court, feeling quite overwhelmed already. Packed lots of tissues anyways. I'm hoping they drag her up from the by her hair today so she has to listen to the impact statements. Will update when I can, I'm unsure of how long today will be.

Hope everyone's ok, lots of love. Be kind to yourselves today

 

[MmmB777]

She had just been around Torquay for a week, they’d got back the night before. So how bad can her knee have been at that point? If she had “just” had the surgery I doubt she’d have been on holiday. Just mind games and trying to be seen as vulnerable. Quite unusual to have knee surgery at her age I’d have thought

 

[gigilouxx]

I’m confused about Dr NN
He was so far up her backside, even passing on information, he was there for her allll whilst she was being investigated. Yet it suddenly stops and next minute he’s in court giving evidence against her and granted anonymity
Something stinks there

 

[magikarplover]

One of the papers is calling Dawn, “deluded Dawn”. Love it.

 

[gigilouxx]

Her poor colleagues. She’s just ruined so many lives

 

[memeee]

Names to remember:
Tony Chambers
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Ian Harvey
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Alison Kelly
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Karen Rees/ Karen Moore
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Ruth Millward
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I do hope the police get involved. These people allowed murders to happen right under their noses despite being warned. Assisting an offender, perverting the course of justice, even manslaughter, surely theirs a charge for them.

 

[F1Grid]

Most of the time clinical and non-clinical staff work together in harmony, appreciating what each bring to the table.

Have to disagree here totally. I think the reason there is such strength of feeling among HCPs is because this is so rarely what we feel.

I can absolutely see myself being told to get fucked and enjoy my GMC referral if I raised concerns. I’ve rarely had good experiences with managers - there’s plenty of non clinical staff I love, the secretaries and admin where I work are excellent - but the managers are near universally cunts.

Ian Harvey’s ‘Open door policy’ vs ‘All emails will cease forthwith’ (ie. stop creating any paper trail, come and have a go if you think you’re hard enough) is our usual experience unfortunately.

 

[LittleMy]

11:05am

A statement from the mother of Child I is read out by Mr Astbury.
The mother recalls the first collapse of Child I made her "paranoid", and she was told the cause of it was an infection. She said she took extra precautions as nothing was worth the risk of this happening again.
She said the parents had a rota to be with Child I, which was "exhausting". At the second collapse, she had 'begun to relax' as Child I had been improving. The mother said within half an hour of visiting a friend, she got a call to go to the hospital asap.
When she arrived, she was on her own, it was "so scary" having to watch "our tiny girl fighting so hard".
"We kept thinking, why is this still happening?"
The collapses were "getting worse".
Before the third collapse, Child I was 'like a full-term baby' - a "very content little girl", and talked about bringing her home.
At the third collapse, the family were in 'fight or flight' mode. Child I had been unresponsive.
Child I 'suddenly picked up' after being transferred to Arrowe Park. She looked swollen, in a lot of pain, and her eyes looked very sad. She was transferred back to the Countess of Chester Hospital.
The family were told Child I could still be home for Christmas.
The mother said she was informed about another collapse for Child I. She felt uneasy, and went to the hospital. When she arrived, this was 'different', as Child I was not fighting.
"I couldn't look at the monitors as I knew she was worse than the previous times."
"I can't even begin to explain the pain when we lost her - our gorgeous little princess."
The mother said she would wear sunglasses to hide her tears from others in the months afterwards, and felt like she was "sinking into a black hole".
The father "really struggled" in the aftermath, and the impact was felt across other members of the family.
When the police contacted about the investigation, the mother said she thought it was about possible hospital mistakes. Upon being asked to relive the events, this had a big impact on her, and she started therapy for PTSD. She remebered her "whole body shaking" on the news Letby was arrested.
"We dug for years, trying to get answers for what happened...it's impacted so much of our family. To be told what happened to our daughter...I don't think I'll ever get over the fact our daughter was tortured until she had no fight left."
"[Child I] should be eight this year."

 

[sarahjane83]

First time posting, long time lurking! Have been thinking so hard for ages trying to come up with her reasons/motivations. I actually think her being babied is part of the reason (as well as being narcissistic which all feeds into this)… especially as I read more about her parents. She was babied all her life and completely doted on, as an only child she was always centre of attention, had no competition for her parent’s love and they did everything for her. I read something on here the other day that said she used to take pads and stuff to school for other girls - this is another attention seeking act. When she went out into the real world and started her job, I think she realised she wasn’t actually centre of attention and struggled with this. I think she did it all for attention, her messages to friends show how much she revelled in the attention, talking about how upset she was, writing cards and getting thanks from parents etc. Not saying this is her parents fault as I was also babied and didn’t turn into a murderer! But definitely something that fed into her narcissism. She probably had the teddies/childlike bedroom because she loved being treated like a child and reverting to that childlike/centre of attention state.

(Sorry if this has been said I have tried to catch up with every thread over the last 10 months but missed some!)

I think the same as you. She’s a covert narc, whose cosseted childhood upbringing instilled in her the belief that she’s special. Cluster B disorders have high co-morbidity and it’s been theorised that NPD, ASPD, BPD and HPD are all just overlapping segments of a general spectrum of disordered thinking, where there is no sense of self or object constancy. The “beige” persona is exactly that: a persona, a mask. She has no sense of identity and the Prosecco and sparkles are what she thinks a young woman in her 20s is like. The teddies, child like accessories, ardent journaling all point to her development getting stuck in her youth, or certainly regressing to that time of life when she felt most adored and enabled - by her parents.

I think she’s mainly NPD with co-morbid ASPD - the “perfect storm” for Munchausen by Proxy.

As to why it wasn’t until her mid-20s that she started killing, I think perhaps the first one wasn’t as calculated as the others. Perhaps she made a mistake or didn’t really believe what would happen and then when the baby died and she got away with it, she got a rush from the attention and sympathy and that spurred her to act again.

When Dr NN came into the mix, it just added another layer of attention seeking - the thrills of being with him in the emergency situations, the “shared trauma” that set them apart from others, the praise and attention from him during and after the incidents.

Anyway, just my tuppence.

ETA - back on the point of why she started when she did and not earlier in her career, I’ve just remembered she was one of the faces of the campaign for a new neonatal unit wasn’t she? So she would have got a load of attention and felt special because of that. Perhaps it was also that waning over time that caused her to seek another source of attention.

Also the police are also looking into her time at Liverpool and a couple of deaths there so maybe she struck earlier than we currently know.

 

[Padparadascha]

I actually think that it's better that LL and her dopey parents didn't come today.

This day is about the dignified strength of the parents and families of murdered babies.
This day is about them telling us who their babies were, how loved they were. We don't know their names but we shed tears for them, those little brave fighters. We cuddled our own that little bit tighter, we ached for the ordeal the parents were going through. We lit candles and wished for strength for their parents. They were loved and beloved for their very short lives.

LL hiding away shows even those still on the fence, what a cowardly cunt she is. Her parents who aided and abetted a murderer are hiding away in shame. Today isn't about her. It's about justice and those little ones.

 

[LittleMy]

10:41am

The mother of Child E and Child F has come forward to read a statement.
She said "our dreams had come true" when the twin boys were born.
"Never were I to imagine that [Child E] were to die."
"Losing [Child E] was the most difficult thing I had ever experienced".
When Child F collapsed, she thought 'no please, not again', and "it was a living nightmare".
On July 3, 2018, the mother said her world was shattered as the news came through of Letby's arrest.
"We felt cheated, deceived and utterly heartbroken once more".
She said she had felt guilty, having trusted Letby and followed instructions "diligently".
"We were robbed of precious time with our baby boy - having to grieve in the presence of Letby", who had dressed him.
"Our babies were extraordinary miracles - I was walking on a cloud of pure happiness. Letby deliberately caused signficiant harm."
"I still struggle to understand why it happened to us."
Letby's behaviour was "a sadistic act".
Child F has been left with learning difficulties, which the mother believes was as a result of Letby's attempted murder.
"It breaks my heart to know that things could have been so different for him."
She says during Letby's time under police investigation, until she was charged in November 2020, the family of Child E and Child F were in limbo.
She said the moment of Child E's crying was "etched in her mind", and found it insulting when she was challenged on that account when giving evidence in court.
"Lucy abused the power she held. She claimed we had a good relationship...it should have been strictly professional. I was vulnerable, doing my best to get through each day. The lies she has told fill me with anger."
"Nothing can changed what has happened to us. We are living with Letby's crimes."
"Lucy is right, she attacked them on purpose because she was not good enough."
She says her babies were 'pawns' in Letby's "twisted game".
"The trial felt like a platform for Lucy to relive her crimes.
"She has repeatedly disrespected my boys' memory."
The 'best thing' Letby could have done was take the stand, when "her mask slipped", the mother adds.
Letby's refusal to attend sentencing is the "final act of wickedness from a coward."

 

[Beigerac]

I cannot believe Karen Rees has the gall to be doing this.

Karen - if you ever read this - you are exactly what is wrong with the world, the epitome of careerist bullying psychopathy. You ruined lives with your arrogance and not only that, you enabled lives to be taken by the stinking little cunt you loved because she was a dirty grass. Do yourself and the world a favour and stay in your little hidey hole in Wales or wherever the fuck it is. Oh, and your Barnet’s a fucking embarrassment too, but it does go well with your smug face.

 

[Moronic]

I just watched the Panorama episode. Really brought it home to hear from some of the parents; how much they trusted LL at the time and how one couple lost a child and has another with life altering difficulties. To think neither needed to happen must be utterly heartbreaking.

I really felt for Dr Brearey. Seems like a good man trying to do his best and is clearly very affected by all this, given how he even shed a tear on camera. It must have been so frustrating to have been ignored but then made to write an apology letter to that horrible murderer. Sends a shiver down my spine.

And sorry to say this, but Dawn her friend just seemed delusional, saying she'll never accept LL is guilty unless Lucy herself says it. How can you ignore all that evidence just because she seemed like a nice friend? I can't understand it.

It has to be a whole life order tomorrow. Nothing else will do.

I thought it was in bad taste for the BBC to show so much footage of Dawn defending her and speaking highly of her. I can’t think of any other high profile serial killers where they would add this kind of devotional element for them in a news programme. It must be really jarring for the families to hear that shite.

 

[DM Me Hun]

Re LL being on suicide watch, as per reported in the Daily Mail today.

I don't really agree with assisted suicide / euthanasia much -but- in the circumstances that someone has got literally no point in being alive and they want to die, should it not be something they are allowed to do? Especially considering the costs to the state.

Some people will say no she should be forced to stay alive to live in fear and torment but that's kind of a step too sadistic for me personally.

Also, some killers seem to thrive in prison, certainly Myra Hindley did, she was very popular, made friends, had tons of girlfriends including prison staffers, and she even had bloody days out in parks - that is absolutely mind-blowing to me personally so it's not necessarily true to say they will be miserable.

Anyway just my thoughts. Just wondering what others think?

Why on earth should a convicted serial killer who murdered multiple completely innocent and defenceless babies and ruined so many lives be allowed to take the easy way out? Why should she be given the privilege of that choice?

BIB, you cannot be serious with this comment. Do you know what is sadistic? Forcibly removing a tube from a baby’s throat and ramming it back in. Causing injuries to a tiny defenceless baby that are consistent with a car crash. Force feeding babies milk, poisoning them with insulin and injecting them with air which blocked their blood supply and eventually killed them.

So no, I think her sitting in a prison cell thinking about what she’s done every day for the rest of her miserable life sounds like quite a tame punishment compared to what she put those babies through and what their families still have to endure every day.

 

[DellaC]

Off topic but does anyone else get extremely horny when you're due your period, besides @lucyxx

I'm menopausal.

My vagina is no longer alive.

So no, I'd sooner have a nice cup of tea and a Vienesse Whirl

 

[DellaC]

I’m already wondering what on earth is going to be said in the sentencing tomorrow. What on earth can a judge say when the crimes are this disturbing.

I think he will do those babies and their families justice. He's a Grandad himself, he will have felt every bit of heartbreak we did. He will be kind and compassionate to the families but he will be harsh on the monster. I hope he says the words WHOLE LIFE ORDER slowly and very clearly.

I'm glad the sentencing is televised but at the same time I wonder if it adds pressure? I hope he's got himself a nice family holiday booked after this. He bloody deserves it

 

[InTheDollsHouse]

‘Tortured until she had no fight left.’

There are no words.

 

[gigilouxx]

Without outing myself too much, I’m glad to see the COCH higher management being highlighted for their crooked processes and negligence. There are some things need answering sooner rather than later though especially around Lucifer’s complaint and how that was handled.

Dr Ravi? Is that you

 

[abelleza]

How do we know dr No name’s age please? If he’s 17 years older then is quite old to be a registrar. Suggests either retraining or perhaps an IMG.

I’m so confused what you think a registrar is? A reg is a step below a consultant, and many doctors don’t want to go past that level as it usually means sacrificing family time and work/life balance. They are classed as junior doctors because everyone below a consultant is but it’s still a relatively senior position. Not everyone becomes a consultant.

 

[TheWitchIsBack]

Possibly, but what I don't understand is that his testimony really didn't add anything. From what was reported, at least, he didn't really contribute anything of note. Certainly nothing that any charges hinged on.

I get the feeling it was tactical… she lost her shit when he took the stand, probably the only time she’s shown any sort of extreme emotion on the stand… shows she is capable of emotion, just not for all the wee babies she’s killed! His testimony was irrelevant but her reaction alone was worth putting her up there.