Lucy Letby case #63 Guilty

[Justherefortittle]

I use NordVPN and got a free trial so you might not have to pay.

I keep hearing nordvpn advertised on a local comedy podcast I listen to for the laughs and decompress

Anso tempted - what way does a VPN work across different devices. As the years have went on I havegot ridiculously none tech savvy

I mainly browse at home on my iPhone but have a subscription’ Firestick and sometimes use the iPad

Jusf trying to figure out how a VPN works

 

[A mega Pint]

So much info to process so sorry if it’s been said
Does anyone know what the reason was they suddenly stopped her return?

I am wondering that as well, I haven’t sat down and created a timeline yet, but I may have to, I need to see things on paper to visualise them properly, I’m wondering if it’s because the hospital were working with the police and they had been informed that an arrest would be coming, could be completely wrong, need to work it out as best I can by writing it down from the info we have.

 

[What's your point]

Jesus....did she phone childline lol

it was for her own good! It was while Libby Squire was missing and honestly I hated it when my daughter was out (still do, I worry so much) and she was giving it the old 'nothing will happen to me, nobody would be able to abduct me, you watch too many crime shows blah blah blah' so I decided to show her how easy it would be (she's teeny tiny as well).

God she has pushed her boundaries that one .

 

[tilly27]

Has anyone watched Bodies? It’s quite old now, but it’s on Netflix. Fictional, but I think it gives a really accurate portrayal of NHS management culture and what can happen with whistleblowers.

Also it’s really good and Max Beesley is hot in it, so worth a watch. Quite gory though, so maybe not for everyone.

Yes I've seen this (got the boxset somewhere too) it is very good. It is quite old, but very good. Eye opening

 

[DellaC]

They can. Lots do interviews after although most stay anonymous. There was a very long-running fraud case where some jury member spoke about the process afterwards to the BBC - I can’t do jury duty so found it very interesting.

They can't discuss the main deliberations part though, which is what everyone would want to know.

If I was part of this trial I wouldn't in a million years talk about any of it to any journalist or newsreader etc

How come you can't do jury duty? I didn't realise there were restrictions.
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They can't discuss the main deliberations part though, which is what everyone would want to know.

If I was part of this trial I wouldn't in a million years talk about any of it to any journalist or newsreader etc

How come you can't do jury duty? I didn't realise there were restrictions.

@justkeepscrolling111 ...ignore my rude question....nowt to do with me why you can't do it, I just didn't realise it was a thing

 

[Auga]

I still think some of their verdicts are a bit whacky - no idea how they arrived at NG for any of the charges, tbh, nor how they could have a majority 'murder' but a unanimous 'attempted murder' but there you go.

I guess the jury members felt there was more direct evidence linking her to the attempted murder. From our perspective, it seems common sense that even for the less-evidenced instances, all of them must have been her, the already established baby murderer. But some collapses or deaths would have been expected statistically from the hospital's record, and as she took a lot of shifts, she might conceivably have been present for them.

So I don't envy the jury members having to give a firm view on whether a specific instance was her mainly because she was demonstrably responsible for other deaths/collapses, or if it was a natural event that she happened to be there for.

 

[A mega Pint]

I see our new hideyhole got bricked up
[/QUOTE]

For all interested parties @bingo22 @DellaC the coffee date is still ongoing! It is now soft drinks as were both driving

Whooohoooo!! Delighted for you!!
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I think the new report that came a week before she was supposed to return had suggestions that a number of cases should be looked into forensically. They probably started to sweat at that point. Thank god they finally bloody listened to someone! It’s actually unreal that when we’re hearing them dismiss this there were far more deaths and collapses than we knew about! 7 deaths June to October 2015 is staggering.
I also really can’t believe that it sounds as though they handed information over to police and Dr Evans is such a slapdash and unhelpful way. Seems they were trying to evade the truth in truly unforgivable ways.

Ahh brilliant thanks darling, saves me having to write the time line down. You are the bestest!

 

[GingerSnapped]

I’ve sat on a jury where one member decided on the first day the defendant was not guilty and refused to be swayed by any of the evidence presented in court. If I was a cynic I’d say they had an undeclared link to the defendant but maybe they were just an obstinate head. Anyway, since then nothing that happens on juries surprises me and I never want to be subject to a jury of my peers

 

[A mega Pint]

I think some people are being a little harsh on her friend etc. we have only seen her through the lens of the trial. She managed to convince the majority of the hospital staff she was innocent, (probably) charm/bond/whatever another Dr to get romantically involved despite him being married, carry out despicable acts and come back to work the next day.

Her ordinariness was her disguise. Some despicable people just look evil eg Saville. Others use it to their advantage. That is basically what the articles are saying.

Sutcliffe to me looks creepy but I watched a documentary about him and there was somebody interviewed who was saying he looked normal came across gentle. They said paraphrasing that he’s the sort of person you would have sat near on the train/bus to make sure a ‘weirdo’ didnt sit next to you.

Fair enough, but would you not have the kudos to think I’m not broadcasting my support for Lucifer on TV? I sometimes despair at the lack of common sense and critical thinking skills of some people!

 

[justkeepscrolling111]

They can't discuss the main deliberations part though, which is what everyone would want to know.

If I was part of this trial I wouldn't in a million years talk about any of it to any journalist or newsreader etc

How come you can't do jury duty? I didn't realise there were restrictions.
---

@justkeepscrolling111 ...ignore my rude question....nowt to do with me why you can't do it, I just didn't realise it was a thing

I actually find the non-case specific stuff quite interesting. During deliberations there’ll be a huge mix of opinions as you have a group of strangers from all sorts of backgrounds - I think hearing the way they found more personal aspects is quite illuminating.

Not rude at all! Certain professions make you exempt. I’m a KC so ineligible although I’ve only had a summons once.

 

[lattenosugar]

So I was discussing this with a friend of mine. She’s recently moved up north to that area and didn’t realise how close it was to her. We did Google searches on where she lived, which showed the bedroom (matches police evidence pictures in the news) and her bedroom (matches the furniture curtains etc) zoopla came up when googling. The house was sold following the first arrest. That’s a fair size home and value for a newly qualified nurse I am thinking she got help from her parents… the zoopla search showed that after her selling the property the new buyer tried to sell it very shortly after in 2020. There have been a lot of sales on that road since her arrest. she was from Hereford originally I am a southerner so please correct me if I am wrong but when I heard her speak it sounded like a posh southern accent, so I thought that was weird. She just gives me loner vibes. I wonder if (the doctor who she was infatuated with) his wife and kids were ever a target in some way by her. In the news somewhere it said no one wanted to give any statements from her friends or family in court. However I saw the interview with the friend and I just can’t believe she has the audacity to do an interview like that. It’s extremely distasteful and disrespectful considering especially to the victims and their families. Even if say she was found not guilty, and I’ve thought she is guilty from the start it’s like just keep your mouth shut. This case had more victims then the moors, and I can remember as a child the amount of publicity it had surrounding that and the National hatred towards Myra hindrey but don’t feel the same with how the media is about this. I can’t get this out of my head to be honest it’s hit hard being a parent. I just don’t get it. Why someone would do something like that. I hope the the not guilty verdicts of attempted murder get retrialed.

zoopla link

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[A mega Pint]

I have to say, a few years ago (during covid) I was feeling really burnt out and fed up, not so much with the patients but with their relatives. It was when visiting had just been started again but limited in my hospital and I was sick of getting shouted at down the phone and I was so busy and felt like talking with relatives all the time was impacting my patient care. Then my dad was in hospital with sepsis (first time I’ve had a parent in hospital, he made a full recovery) and the staff were tit at communicating with us (and he’s deaf so had no idea what they were saying to him). It was terrifying and it made me realise how important it was to inform and reassure loved ones…it’s so so important. They are often suffering just as much (sometimes more) than the patients.
My point is now I think of every patient as being as precious to someone as my dad is to me, it’s helped me be a much better nurse! It’s not just about the medical problem that you’re treating but also the person as a whole, including their family.

So beautifully said and I totally agree with you.

 

[abelleza]

I am sorry you had to go through that trauma when dealing with a loved one being ill

It’s a lesson that many people in the NHS need to be more mindful of - the sad thing is that most don’t really realise nor care that patient could easily be their child, sibling, parent, grandparent or close friend.

In fact many of wouldn’t even care if it was.

I guess for me from I first stepped into a NHS role in 1995 on placement I was already aware because of how I was brought up by my parents and the influence of grandparents aunts uncles and the wider community.
It was an awareness and value largely based on care and compassion, looking out for anyone in need or for the underdog in any situation.
And something that never lessened despite the curve balls life threw my way.

Ironically thought it’s an instilled value that at times caused great distress personally and professionally.

Unfortunately the NHS as it is today is set up to make people like this. Almost everybody starts off with the best of intentions, but the NHS relies on the generosity of its front line to constantly go above and beyond what their pay grade and even physical and mental ability allows. Every single person has their limits when it comes to how much pressure and stress they can take, and when you are used to seeing patients suffer because the care is just isn’t provided for them (not through malice usually but through lack of ability/staff) you become hardened and desensitised in order to stop yourself from having a complete breakdown. During covid, I saw even the most strong, talented, caring and amazing nurses completely crumble and their mental health suffered. Many people have had prolonged periods of time off due to stress/depression/anxiety, I’ve even known people literally start to suffer from auto-immune disorders due to the stress. The most important thing is to recognise when you have become like this and take a step back, but that isn’t always an option for people who have families to support.

(Apologies, off topic).

 

[Skippylahlah]

I keep hearing nordvpn advertised on a local comedy podcast I listen to for the laughs and decompress

Anso tempted - what way does a VPN work across different devices. As the years have went on I havegot ridiculously none tech savvy

I mainly browse at home on my iPhone but have a subscription’ Firestick and sometimes use the iPad

Jusf trying to figure out how a VPN

I’m not tech Savvy either and only use it in a limited way. I hope this makes sense.
When you sign up you get a username and password. Download the app on your devices. Sign into the app, select your country and hit connect. Takes a few seconds and then says connected. I only use internet browser so open that and do what I need to do. Disconnect when done.
It can be a bit patchy and slow other times great. It has seemed much better lately.

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

Just copying over something I saw on WS and reddit - how exactly do we think Lucy "targeted" Doc Choc's wife, via social media?

Rare anonymity orders on Lucy Letby witnesses 'will have chilling effect on future cases'

Highly unusual reporting restrictions were imposed despite victims and families being widely named when the nurse was first charged

www.telegraph.co.uk

I believe she probably messaged his wife/stalked her profile but from all the reporting it sounds pretty clear the prosecution believed there was an affair going on and it sounds like there were even more messages than we thought so tbh I think Dr Choc is lying about it (can’t blame him given what’s come out now) being unrequited. Maybe it wasn’t as serious for him as it was for her, but when even the BBC are reporting that the prosecution were saying he was her boyfriend and talking about the flirty texting back and forth, I don’t believe he’s innocent in terms of an affair with her.

ETA: feel really sorry for his wife though. Imagine the way you find out your husband shagged someone else is when it’s part of a murder investigation like this. Awful.

 

[DellaC]

I actually find the non-case specific stuff quite interesting. During deliberations there’ll be a huge mix of opinions as you have a group of strangers from all sorts of backgrounds - I think hearing the way they found more personal aspects is quite illuminating.

Not rude at all! Certain professions make you exempt. I’m a KC so ineligible although I’ve only had a summons once.

Ah I asked the question and then thought you might be a murderer or something. I am honestly that person who puts my foot right in it on a regular basis

Do you know what support the jury get afterwards? I cant imagine how they're feeling and hope they're not sent into the big wide world with nothing.

What a fantastic job you have. I bet you could tell a tale or two! I'm sure it's not always easy but I hope it's worthwhile.

Also I think it was @Tofino who said that prosecution barristers are super shaggers. Can you confirm or deny this?

 

[A mega Pint]

@A mega Pint

I love you right back Bella Della.


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Jesus....did she phone childline lol

Mine bloody nearly would they love to tell me XYZ proper parenting is child abuse so I reliably inform them that their behaviour is elder abuse, shuts them right up!!

 

[Justherefortittle]

Unfortunately the NHS as it is today is set up to make people like this. Almost everybody starts off with the best of intentions, but the NHS relies on the generosity of its front line to constantly go above and beyond what their pay grade and even physical and mental ability allows. Every single person has their limits when it comes to how much pressure and stress they can take, and when you are used to seeing patients suffer because the care is just isn’t provided for them (not through malice usually but through lack of ability/staff) you become hardened and desensitised in order to stop yourself from having a complete breakdown. During covid, I saw even the most strong, talented, caring and amazing nurses completely crumble and their mental health suffered. Many people have had prolonged periods of time off due to stress/depression/anxiety, I’ve even known people literally start to suffer from auto-immune disorders due to the stress. The most important thing is to recognise when you have become like this and take a step back, but that isn’t always an option for people who have families to support.

(Apologies, off topic).

Thank you for your honesty.
I think the percentage make it more difficult for those who do care.
in times gone by, and not too far back mind you, careers in the NHS were vocations not just occupations.
Many of the changes in more recent years have shook the NHS and put into question it’s fitness for purpose

 

[Liverbird2003]

I'm finally up to date, it's taken me a whole day
I don't think I've ever like and loved as many posts on anything ever. Now I can go to bed, safe in the knowledge I don't have 51 pages to scroll through in the morning.

 

[A mega Pint]

I actually find the non-case specific stuff quite interesting. During deliberations there’ll be a huge mix of opinions as you have a group of strangers from all sorts of backgrounds - I think hearing the way they found more personal aspects is quite illuminating.

Not rude at all! Certain professions make you exempt. I’m a KC so ineligible although I’ve only had a summons once.

Just wondering out of sheer curiosity, would you if you could, (hypothetically) like to sit on a jury mainly for the deliberations side of it to see how things transpire, I think it would be so eye opening,I suppose, or, is it something you would run away from because of your profession. No need to answer if I’m being too inquisitive.