Lucy Letby Case #6

[stardust1]

@crumpets2 @Tofino what type of things could she be going through a grievance for if you take away the accusations?

 

[listymint]

District nurses will also take photos on their phones so that they can discuss wounds etc back at the clinic and appropriate treatments for the patient with other nurses/GPs. Obviously, that's a very different area to NICU but it does happen.

 

[stardust1]

I thought they were required to report it to the police as a result of the RCPCH review as they made a recommendation to conduct a thorough external independent review of each death - was the external body not the police? Maybe I have it wrong though that’s what I took from it.
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I don’t think it necessarily has to be the police, although I’m not sure who else would come in to investigate. I’m sure someone with in the NHS could explain more.

 

[Lackofimagination]

Hi, I have been following this case with interest. I’ve never posted before but thought I would join in with the discussion.
Im a nurse and find this case absolutely shocking. My heart aches for all those parents who have suffered. My thoughts regarding if she is guilty or not keeps changing every day. Something just doesn’t add up. So may unanswered questions which hopefully we will get some answers in the coming months.

Regarding the IV bag- I think it was TPN that was put up. TPN comes from pharmacy and is placed in the fridge until it’s ready to use. It needs to be left out of the fridge for an hour before being administered. All nursing staff will have access to the fridge at anytime of the day.
New TPN bags are usually given at night and run for 24 hours.

Could she have took the bag out of the fridge before the end of the shift ready for the night staff to put up.
Also, a new giving set should be used with each new bag so contamination from the last bag wouldn’t be possible.

Hey! Welcome! Could you or anyone with the right background explain what a TPN bag actually is please? Sorry I have no idea

 

[MrsDimSum]

Oh maybe! You might be right. I’m getting quite worked up today and just should take my time to read it and take it in more slowly! X

Also depends where you’re reading too. As some of the reporting differs. It’s a lot to take in, look after yourself x

 

[Haveyouanywool]

So 16 minutes after LL would’ve joined the ward and had her verbal handover to take over the baby deteriorates.

Why not? I think you’d crash pretty quickly if you had air injected into your blood stream.
I’m not sure but I think there would be a trolley with frequently used equipment (needles, syringes, ng tubes etc) beside each cot space.

 

[candyland_]

I’ve just checked the wiki. Baby A collapsed at 8pm and baby B collapsed shortly before midnight.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Recap: Lucy Letby trial, Monday, October 17

The trial of Lucy Letby, accused of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder 10 more at the Countess of Chester Hospital neonatal unit,…

www.chesterstandard.co.uk

Today's link. Court due to start at 11am

Thank you couldn't find a link anywhere!

 

[crumpets2]

Can anyone remember what context it was said in?

 

[Hannah_204]

Does anyone know with opening statements is the defence allowed to change theirs last min once they’ve heard the prosecution?

I felt the defence could have done more to create doubt about some of the big things the prosecution brought up in their opening statement

 

[Tangerine Cat]

With regards to new experts being more credible - I think I’m inclined to believe the people who did the original post mortems were probably unconsciously biased because the babies never left the hospital so I don’t think suspicious circumstances would have even entered their head. Some of the PM outcomes were unexplained. You might say the new experts might have an unconscious bias but there are at least 5 of them and if they all agree it’s going to be really hard to dispute their evidence. I wonder if the pathologists who did the original post mortems will be witnesses and if they have a change of view.

But a pathologist wouldn’t risk their credibility to come forward and admit to that. Any death that comes to them could be suspicious….

besides, were the post mortems done at the hospital, I know if you die at the pilgrim hospital in Boston your PM could be done at nottingham for instance as my aunts was, we were told they didn’t have enough pathologists locally anymore.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Would hospital staff be likely to have a mobile? I would assume that part of the reason for a community member of staff to have a phone would be safety (lone working) which wouldn't be a consideration for hospital staff. They didn't when I worked in a hospital (in admin) but it was over 10 years ago I left so things will have changed since then.

They did when I visited PICU. OK, as someone said, different trusts, different systems. The designated nurse could text (or phone) without leaving the bed space. It would save the ward landline ringing constantly. A Dr, or whoever, could text back advice. There would also then be a record.
Of course, things were different in an emergency situation.

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

Is anyone local to the hospital that can say what they think of it? I think some people jump on the bandwagon of horror stories and rumours about the hospital. I saw a post and there was many comments saying their baby was in the NNU while Lucy was there and they felt looked after, also good comments about the maternity. A few comments saying it has a bad rep but it is no worse than other hospitals. Then there is comments about how it needs bulldozed

If you look at the CQC report it provides an unbiased view of the hospital and also the maternity service

 

[avabella]

Could it potentially be they were transferred and therefore the deaths would be recorded as being at other hospitals but they’re investigating LL as the cause. I think the deaths occurring at Chester will be easier to prove and potentially other babies went on to die elsewhere or survived her attempts.

I'm not sure if I'm confusing myself. I am just wondering out loud what the circumstances were that then disregarded any deaths as not being suspicious (even in retrospect).

 

[stardust1]

yeah I don’t think they’re from the most recent sale either.



Grievance against her or grievance she’d put in?

I think I read it was against her but someone can correct me if I am wrong

 

[Milktray]

I was hoping they would report on the agree facts but they seem to have just said they're were read out. I think the agreed facts are important as it shows which bits the defence aren't questioning.

Shame as Dave J definitely listed the agreed facts in the Star trial and they helped give a good sense of why some evidence wad more solid than other bits

I was thinking the same...it would be good to hear what the agreed facts are. Maybe JM will cover this on twitter but no updates yet.

 

[stardust1]

not that i can recall! there was that photo of her posting bail from (maybe) last summer that someone linked in the last thread - but that’s the most recent photo i can remember

ah yes I remember that one. She must have kept a low profile before she was on remand.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

No they don’t? It’s literally just given in a normal plastipak syringe but through a special pump which is very specific at giving tiny amounts of medication. I’ve never heard of any issues with insulin and plastic, insulin syringes are plastic. Unless they mean the plastic of IV bags, because you never actually inject the insulin into an IV bag, it’s delivery wouldn’t be specific enough and you have to be very specific with insulin bc the tiniest amount extra can kill someone. (It’s been just under a year since I’ve worked on a ward so some of my terminology etc is a bit rusty).

Edit: IV or TPN bags

It’s the plastic from the IV or TPN bag.
Would there be ‘stock’ TPN bags or are they all bespoke?

 

[Haveyouanywool]

There were 13 deaths I think on the unit that year, 10 of which were unexplained. She was attending to 8 of them (1 charge was dropped as not enough evidence, hence just 7 murder charges). According to the RCPHC report.

There were between 25-30 nurses and 15-20 nursery unit nurses in that part of the hospital, working day/night shifts. More would work on the day than the night shifts, typically. [according to opening statements]

So for one nurse out of 20ish being present for 8 of the 10 unexplained deaths is a pretty big co-incidence. And I can see why they were suspicious of her.

Thank you. Is there a link to the RCPHC report?

 

[Skellig]

Imagine if you saw your nurse do that you’d shit your pants!!

Thank god she didn't see me. I'm not only her doctor but her brother is my mate

*looks around nervously*