Lucy Letby Case #43

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Judge Goss is 70, he has 5 children so is probably a Grandad. I bet he's a really bloody good Grandad too!

I'm sure this case has touched his heart like it has us.

Was just reading about a time where he dismissed the jury and tried the case alone following jury intimidation am bribery. This was in February 2017.

He's the man!
 
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I agree with you. I think both can be true/possible and I believe it’s likely a combination of both. The specific timeline has always interested me and considering she had 250+ handover notes, if they related to 250 different babies, then they all need investigating. If those babies have passed then medical records would need to be obtained with parental consent. It’s huge. Whether it results in more charges is unknown but the fact every single baby she’s been in contact with would need to be looked into
yes I don’t know anything about that Holmes system but from what that post says, I imagine just entering the details of one handover sheet means there will be actions for every baby on that handsheet. x 250+
 
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Not too far from the end now. I just hope the jury sees sense and finds her guilty. I can't see how they won't, but you never know.
 
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It's interesting that Lucy's stint at Liverpool with the very poorly babies was only a few months before Baby A. That was where she had the two dying babies in a row.
 
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Judge Goss is 70, he has 5 children so is probably a Grandad. I bet he's a really bloody good Grandad too!

I'm sure this case has touched his heart like it has us.

Was just reading about a time where he dismissed the jury and tried the case alone following jury intimidation am bribery. This was in February 2017.

He's the man!
Aww ...he is definitely showing us he's the man so far....he is the last person now, who can be a voice for those babies and families and so far, he's doing a bloody good job❤
 
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I know it was his job but it makes ‘the defence’ sound absolutely ridiculous.
Yeah she doesn't really have any.
I think that's becoming clearer via reporting today but hopefully the jury already have that cemented I their minds.
 
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yes I don’t know anything about that Holmes system but from what that post says, I imagine just entering the details of one handover sheet means there will be actions for every baby on that handsheet. x 250+
Yeah sounds likely. You're right that the specific time frame seems very clean too as if it was just outstanding actions then would surely start from April?

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I missed this earlier in the summing up about LLs character...

Colleague Christopher Booth "confirmed" she was "conscientious, hard-working, and willing to help", and another colleague said Letby would "remain friends" with the parents of babies on Facebook.

Does thst mean she was friends with other parents she met in the unit as doesn't that cross professional boundaries? As a social worker, there is no way they would let me make friends with any service users on social media if I had worked with them at any point, and I'm an adults SW not children's.

Can't see this has been raised anywhere before
 
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The judge refers to Dr Sandie Bohin, and her evidence for Child A.

He says the defence accused her of lacking independence, and "enthusiastically supported" Dr Evans' evidence. She repeatedly denied this assertions, and said her views were her own.
This particular angle by BM stunk of sexism, in my opinion. Of course a highly qualified professional woman couldn't have opinions of her own. Of course she was falling over herself to agree with the man expert. :mad:
 
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yes I don’t know anything about that Holmes system but from what that post says, I imagine just entering the details of one handover sheet means there will be actions for every baby on that handsheet. x 250+
HOLMES, from my understanding is only for murders. For example, it wasn’t used by myself when I investigated domestic incidents in my old role. The only team I knew to use this system was HMET who dealt with homicides. So therefore, I’m not entirely sure if every single part of this investigation would need to be logged on there anyway. Obviously the charges here would be yes, but let’s say the other 250 handover notes were 250 separate babies…some of the investigation into them may lead nowhere, this would still be noted on the system but not sure it would be on HOLMES. It could well be though with it all being under the same operation name. There may be parents that Dont want to have their babies dearths/injuries investigated so won’t give consent for medical notes, there may be babies who sadly passed away from medical explained things. All of this would need noting yes but not sure if it would just be those murder/attempt murders that would be put on that system. I hope that makes sense.

There’s more that goes into an investigation than people think about as I’ve said. For the standard domestics I used to investigate you could have victim statement, witness statement, officer statements, cctv, medical professional statement, medical photos, crime scene photos, crime scene examiner statement, mobile phone download, mobile phone expert statement, suspect interview, interviewers statements, 999 calls, body worn footage, previous domestic history, previous criminal history & then if the suspect throws up further lines of enquiry during their interview, you’d have those to follow up with. Then if you took it to CPS, they might come back with further actions before they’d consider a charge. I can’t imagine the magnitude of information they’d need for an investigation of this scale and yes, someone (most of those involved) will also need to input all the information into the systems too. It’s massive.
 
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I am feeling a real sense of relief reading Judge Goss's summing up. It feels like the grownups are back in charge, if that makes sense.
Totally. His summing up is giving me hope that the jury will deliver a guilty verdict, no more, no less.
 
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HOLMES, from my understanding is only for murders. For example, it wasn’t used by myself when I investigated domestic incidents in my old role. The only team I knew to use this system was HMET who dealt with homicides. So therefore, I’m not entirely sure if every single part of this investigation would need to be logged on there anyway. Obviously the charges here would be yes, but let’s say the other 250 handover notes were 250 separate babies…some of the investigation into them may lead nowhere, this would still be noted on the system but not sure it would be on HOLMES. It could well be though with it all being under the same operation name. There may be parents that Dont want to have their babies dearths/injuries investigated so won’t give consent for medical notes, there may be babies who sadly passed away from medical explained things. All of this would need noting yes but not sure if it would just be those murder/attempt murders that would be put on that system. I hope that makes sense.

There’s more that goes into an investigation than people think about as I’ve said. For the standard domestics I used to investigate you could have victim statement, witness statement, officer statements, cctv, medical professional statement, medical photos, crime scene photos, crime scene examiner statement, mobile phone download, mobile phone expert statement, suspect interview, interviewers statements, 999 calls, body worn footage, previous domestic history, previous criminal history & then if the suspect throws up further lines of enquiry during their interview, you’d have those to follow up with. Then if you took it to CPS, they might come back with further actions before they’d consider a charge. I can’t imagine the magnitude of information they’d need for an investigation of this scale and yes, someone (most of those involved) will also need to input all the information into the systems too. It’s massive.
Does that mean even the attempted murders in this case are not on Holmes?

I don’t doubt the amount of paperwork for the scale of these crimes but I guess I would have expected it to be completed prior to trial.
 
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Hello from another newbie! I've been following along for months and am glad I can now comment. I'm in a couple of Facebook groups but only comment there when I really can't restrain myself. It particularly annoys me when people try to minimise, normalise and excuse the amount of confidential paperwork LL took home and stored. I just find the FB groups insane.

I'll admit I initially thought she couldn't possibly have done what she is accused of as it is too horrific and I did think she was being made a scapegoat, but my mind really changed after the pathologist evidence for baby A (I think) which described the "globules" inside the veins of brain and lung tissue. Then the insulin cases are pretty damning.

I was absolutely shocked that the only defence witness other than LL was a plumber. Just wow! And I've been surprised at what BM has been allowed to say without experts to back it up.

Anyway, the end is in sight and I have faith in the jury. I am looking forward to justice being served.
 
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Does that mean even the attempted murders in this case are not on Holmes?

I don’t doubt the amount of paperwork for the scale of these crimes but I guess I would have expected it to be completed prior to trial.
It stands for Home Office Large Major Enquiry System so I think they'll all be on there.

There's a job description online for a HOLMES supervisor for op hummingbird
 
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Long time lurker, FTP. Glad I got the chance to cast my guilty vote today! I think the thing that really sealed the deal for me was the number of babies attacked on their due dates or key milestones. That simply cannot be a coincidence, and it lends enormous weight to the motive of wanting to revel in the parents' distress. Hoping the jury see it the same way!
 
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Been following this thread for a while and wanted to add my input. From the day of hearing about her arrest my gut feeling has been that she is guilty, as difficult as it is to comprehend somebody in the caring profession being capable of something like this. I am a healthcare professional myself and have been involved in numerous emergency situations in hospital with babies/children and cannot think of any that were unexplained and/or unexpected - normally during a resus situation it is either 'expected' due to the patients condition deteriorating or being unstable, or an explanation is found quite quickly following full assessment or further investigations (blood tests etc). The evidence the prosecution have presented has only solidified their case in my opinion and I can't see how she could be innocent.
I hope that the jury make the right decision so that the poor babies and their families get the justice they deserve, although it could never make up for what they have been through. I also hope that her colleagues are getting the support they need as this would undoubtedly be devastating for them to hear evidence that a colleague that they no doubt trusted was actually causing harm.
I think following this case there will be a lot of investigation at CoCH and changes in practice and policies to find out how this went on unnoticed for so long and to prevent this from happening again. I imagine the police will also have to investigate every patient that Letby has ever had direct contact with which will be a mammoth task in itself as during nurse training there are 9 or more placements in different clinical areas and can also be across different trusts depending on where the university uses for placements. Sadly I think there will be more cases to come.
 
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Long time lurker - so happy to finally join! I feel like I’m already friends with you thread regulars! 🫶 I am in fact ginger, but I hate Turkish delight and Matalan. Soz guys xx

I was originally on the fence but she is 100000% guilty and I can’t wait to see her her sentences. I would have loved to go and watch the trial but I’m all the way down south and I’ve been busy with my degree!
 
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Long time lurker, FTP. Glad I got the chance to cast my guilty vote today! I think the thing that really sealed the deal for me was the number of babies attacked on their due dates or key milestones. That simply cannot be a coincidence, and it lends enormous weight to the motive of wanting to revel in the parents' distress. Hoping the jury see it the same way!
Omg your username has just made my day. 🥲

 
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Does that mean even the attempted murders in this case are not on Holmes?

I don’t doubt the amount of paperwork for the scale of these crimes but I guess I would have expected it to be completed prior to trial.
My honest answer is that I don’t know…maybe not usually but in LL’s case probably purely as if you look at everything together it’s serial. But I’m not 100% sure. I’ve seen attempt murders recorded on the system I’ve used previously which wasn’t HOLMES but not murders as in, I’ve seen it referenced (there was a record of it) but to actually access any of the information on said murder you’d need access to HOLMES which I didn’t have, only specific people have access. It could potentially also be different for each police force? Im more north. There are sometimes job adverts specifically for HOLMES index officers which involves updating the system (if it paid more I’d of applied haha) which I would have thought they’d have advertised rather than DC roles (I haven’t actually looked at the advert in detail though) as those roles imply there will be an investigation element needed.

Yeah I’d imagine the majority of the information for these charges are already on the system. It should be input as you go realistically. It’s likely updates from the trial e.g evidence/court transcripts that will need adding.
That’s why I lean more to the fact there may be further charges or at the least be further investigation actions needed for operation hummingbird rather than it solely just being an “admin tie up job” as the Reddit post suggested.
 
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YES. I've not been able to vote before because i've not been able to register. I AM IN. She's guilty guilty, very very guilty.

Thank you to all of you who have made following this case as easy as it could be, by laying out all of the information and for many of your astute reasonings.
 
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