What about the legal person on here who says the defence don't have to offer anything? The problem with that is, what would be the point of the defence if they really don’t have to do anything? Sorry if that sounds dumb. But he is going to take 5 days? The defence case wasn’t even half as long as the prosecution?
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To make sure all the procedural points are followed so she gets a fair trial. They can sit back and say nothing because they don’t have to prove she didn’t do it, the prosecution have to make the jury sure that she did do it. Obviously in practice they never just sit back and say nothing but in theory they don’t need to. I’m not sure why so long has been given for defence closing when they had relatively little compared to the prosecution, but I’m guessing he’ll go through each baby and put forward why they think the jury can’t be sure it was murder, obviously that would be strengthened if he could also refer to defence witnesses etc! Also possible they’re not sitting everyday next week I guess
Yes, he will go through each baby. And who knows, may not even sit full days, so that’s why it could take a while.
Well let’s see what BM has to offer. I doubt he’ll go down without a fight. Having says that, even though I’m pretty convinced of her guilt, I do actually worry I might be persuaded!! All I do know is following a case like this is tough, and I’m not sure I will ever do it again, but let’s hope there will never be a case like this again.
@nosycowmoo were you there at 10.30 this morning and hear the judge adjourn? Did he mention what days court was sitting next week?
Honestly it just wouldn’t surprise me if it’s not a full week.
Honestly it just wouldn’t surprise me if it’s not a full week.
I don’t think anyone will be persuaded after the defence closing statement - I was worried of this too when the defence evidence started and that just made me more convinced of her guilt! I think he’ll go through each baby, place doubt on why it was murder, or place doubt on LL being there. I think he may possibly refer to her notes and state there’s no evidence they were falsified and that they were genuine (who the duck would believe that I don’t know!) and that’s it. I think it’ll be brief. Even if he only takes 30 mins per charge, that’s still 11 hours so that’s at least two days.
Euthanised or aborted? If euthanised, that’s horrificThey do, unless the laws changed.
Baby's with Downs Syndrome can be euthanized in the Netherlands.
The UK you can abort until the day before your due date.
That's just with DS. Not sure on the exact rules, I know everything I need to know about that bloody place
@Haveyouanywool thank you 
These poor poor families thinking the end is soon and then yet another delay. Especially the ones that don’t live local anymore and perhaps had to uproot their lives for entirety of the trial, can’t even imagine dealing with being away from your home, family & friends on top of the trauma they’re already going through
These poor poor families thinking the end is soon and then yet another delay. Especially the ones that don’t live local anymore and perhaps had to uproot their lives for entirety of the trial, can’t even imagine dealing with being away from your home, family & friends on top of the trauma they’re already going through
It is true in UK courts the defence don’t have the burden of proof, so technically they don’t have to prove anything. They still need to be able to have their say though as is their right.
I think you might be right there chuck.
We shall see. I know the parent have already been through the worst thing imaginable but like many of you I feel very protective over them and I hope he doesn't insinuate they're mistaken or lying. I know he's got a job to do and he's seemingly good at what he does but it just feels unnecessary at this stage.
The prosecution have to prove guilt beyond reasonable doubt. The defence are essentially there to increase that doubt. However, it is entirely possible to have a situation where the prosecution lead witnesses and evidence and the be defence do absolutely nothing at all. It’s rare they wouldn’t cross-examine the prosecution witnesses but they don’t have to and sometimes there isn’t anything much to ask. The defence does not have to lead any witnesses, which includes the accused. Generally they will though, especially if there’s a defence such as self-defence or an alibi where you’re offering to prove something.
I don’t expect he’ll take as much as five days, I’d expect around three. I don’t think they’ve indicated that court will sit for the full five days?
I’ve noticed the fb group has gone off on one. Lots of bickering and mod warnings. They’re not allowed to use laugh reacts or anything because it’s “inflammatory” 
I’m wonder if he’ll spend more time on the attempts than the deaths as some of those questions the jury are asked to answer, he could potentially try throw more doubt on some of those?
I mean not for me personally but just thinking defence on the whole.
I think he’ll struggle with the insulin ones - he’ll mention the tests I think & that she isn’t an expert & then say it wasn’t her & that will be it for them. Again, I appreciate he doesn’t have to back things up with experts himself but all his explanations for the insulin kind of fall flat without that don’t they.
I also believe he will go down the fact they were more poorly. Which again, I think is disgusting but understand this is what he has to work with.
It’s all so awful.
The person who mentioned Eid might have a point - this would suggest court might not sit all week
I mean not for me personally but just thinking defence on the whole.
I think he’ll struggle with the insulin ones - he’ll mention the tests I think & that she isn’t an expert & then say it wasn’t her & that will be it for them. Again, I appreciate he doesn’t have to back things up with experts himself but all his explanations for the insulin kind of fall flat without that don’t they.
I also believe he will go down the fact they were more poorly. Which again, I think is disgusting but understand this is what he has to work with.
It’s all so awful.
The person who mentioned Eid might have a point - this would suggest court might not sit all week
So use of the ‘haha’ react button is banned, but Gill is permitted to mouth off on there on a daily basis, spread all sorts of misinformation and claim that the doctors are baby killers? Ok then, I’m glad we’ve got that cleared upI’ve noticed the fb group has gone off on one. Lots of bickering and mod warnings. They’re not allowed to use laugh reacts or anything because it’s “inflammatory”
Does nobody challenge him? He's a big weird gobshite!!So use of the ‘haha’ react button is banned, but Gill is permitted to mouth off on there on a daily basis, spread all sorts of misinformation and claim that the doctors are baby killers? Ok then, I’m glad we’ve got that cleared up
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Initially everyone seemed a bit in awe of him as he introduced himself as the statistician who got Lucia de Berk off, but now it’s become so obvious he’s just a nutter with an agenda and he’s ruined his reputation, people are a lot more dismissive of him.
Especially when he comes out with tit like this, it’s just appalling.
Might just spam the group with this when the guilty verdict rolls inI’ve noticed the fb group has gone off on one. Lots of bickering and mod warnings. They’re not allowed to use laugh reacts or anything because it’s “inflammatory”
Yeah, I commented that surely a laughing emoji is less rude than saying "WTF is wrong with you that you'd actually think that?"I’ve noticed the fb group has gone off on one. Lots of bickering and mod warnings. They’re not allowed to use laugh reacts or anything because it’s “inflammatory”
Went down like a wet fart obviously.
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The Prosecution closing was extremely powerful, showing the premeditated ways LL lied and falsified medical notes to gaslight and distance herself from the collapses.
The defence need to show a believable alternative as to the reasons these babies died which doesn't involve forcing air and excess milk into those tiny babies.
They've offered nothing, no differing theories.
It's shocking and horrifying how determined LL was, how desperate she was to cause death and misery.
I wonder how she's feeling. It seemed she reacted very little to the damming speech by NJ.
Perhaps she's accepted she's totally ducked now.
BM will do his best but IMO she's doomed.
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“they only made typical doctor mistakes and lots are made in badly run and underfunded hospitals.”So use of the ‘haha’ react button is banned, but Gill is permitted to mouth off on there on a daily basis, spread all sorts of misinformation and claim that the doctors are baby killers? Ok then, I’m glad we’ve got that cleared up
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So why aren’t we seeing the same types of collapses and deaths in NNU up and down the country? Or even just in COCH still? If anything it should be even worse now post covid.
I notice not a single person has liked his comment in those 9 hours
I don’t know mate. You’re probably just coming to the dumb normie conclusion that the people who went to ‘barrister school’ want you to come to.“they only made typical doctor mistakes and lots are made in badly run and underfunded hospitals.”
So why aren’t we seeing the same types of collapses and deaths in NNU up and down the country? Or even just in COCH still? If anything it should be even worse now post covid.
I notice not a single person has liked his comment in those 9 hours
Don’t worry though, BNE is no match for big brain ricky! He’s just too smart to fall for the mind games!
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