Lucy Letby Case #38

Is Lucy Letby a murderer?

  • Guilty

    Votes: 465 84.1%
  • Guilty of some but not all

    Votes: 26 4.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 27 4.9%
  • Not guilty - not enough prosecution evidence

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Not guilty - waiting for defence to finish before deciding

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Not guilty - innocent, there’s no way she did it and is being made a scapegoat

    Votes: 7 1.3%

  • Total voters
    553
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Poll results from last thread.

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Thanks for new thread. I’ll try to keep up. Hoping it isn’t long before this is all drawn to a conclusion.
 
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Need title editing as it’s missing #38

I have some time (presume the usual 20 mins) to edit poll options if anybody wants any adding or changing!
 
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So, it started… we will start with text messages after your removal from the unit, then the gang of 4 doctors, searches for parents and the circumstances in which she was isolated and then after the arrest. and he said so there you go that’s your menu I literally LOL’d and wasn’t the only one!!!!

She wasn’t as narky today she somehow seemed a bit more relaxed, not as much blinking either. She did seem to be putting her foot in it a bit today if I’m honest.

The pj comments came across well (for prosecution) and she was adamant she did not want the video showing. She knew she’d messed up there.

The isolated part was very telling. London visits and meet ups and messages with hearts to doctor no name (jeez nearly wrote his name!) it made her look silly if I’m honest and did it’s job of showing how many minor things she’s willing to lie about.

Messages immediately to 2 friends and doctor no name even though she was told to talk to anyone. Then loads of messages and meet ups and group messages to a big group of different staff. She had a hectic social life if I’m honest and she has repeatedly said how isolated she was. So he really did show how easily she lies over things.

The note I was shocked he didn’t say about the on purpose part and it seemed quite mild he could’ve really gone to town but didn’t.

Then BM started and I can’t for the life of me remember 2 of the parts that I thought he helped the prosecution out (I was genuinely so confused why he would make her look more guilty but my stupid adhd brain can’t remember 😭)

However he said that one part about babies being unwell 2 nights in a row was a mistake, that the prosecution had that part wrong and they were not unwell in both nights.

Then he said DID YOU AGREE TO THAT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS WRONG… she said YES, he then said why did you agree to an inaccurate summary of evidence and she said I CANT ANSWER THAT I DONT KNOW.

Now unless he can think up something clever about that, then it sounds like that went in the prosecutions favour!

I can see there’s been lots of talk of the lies about social life etc not being important in a murder trial… but she’s under oath, to tell nothing but the truth and she hasn’t, over and over lies on lies.

Oh and finally when I say how nicely BNE talks to her WELL!!! BM has a MUCH harsher voice and tone.

Court was almost full, lots of new faces. Not on till Wednesday now
 
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I keep going for unsure as guilty without everything feels so damning, I am leaning towards guilty though. Which in some ways is a relief, as the thought of someone innocent going through that is unthinkable. But in another way is more horrific than you can verbalise. i think a few of us feel the same, it’s this weird sort of unsettled feeling.
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Thanks, @nosycowmoo

Is it possible she was referring to a feeling of isolation rather than literal isolation? I’ve had times where I seem to be active socially but anything but really.
 
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Need title editing as it’s missing #38

I have some time (presume the usual 20 mins) to edit poll options if anybody wants any adding or changing!
Can we just remove not guilty and have ‘guilty’, ‘guilty’ and ‘if you choose this leave tattle we don’t need your bad energy’
 
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I keep going for unsure as guilty without everything feels so damning, I am leaning towards guilty though. Which in some ways is a relief, as the thought of someone innocent going through that is unthinkable. But in another way is more horrific than you can verbalise. i think a few of us feel the same, it’s this weird sort of unsettled feeling.
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Thanks, @nosycowmoo

Is it possible she was referring to a feeling of isolation rather than literal isolation? I’ve had times where I seem to be active socially but anything but really.
No she literally said under oath she was isolated she couldn’t speak to any of her family and friends from work… yet went totally against their order to not speak to anyone. She’s the first to make everyone else follow rules but doesn’t follow them herself…
 
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I hope LL had just manipulated Janet and she can now see it for what it is. I couldn’t have a nurse look after my baby who thought she was innocent even after all the hand over sheets etc. i think it goes against everything a nurse should be. I do think she must believe she’s innocent or at least did think that cause of the profile pics, i bet it causes some conflict on the unit
 
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The isolation and desperation in those notes HELP ME HELP ME but nobody can. She says things like I wish I could ask for help but I can’t. Nobody will ever understand what has happened or why.

That is because she has murdered babies. She could and was talking about the redeployment and her plans and what she could do about it.
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She says in her police interview she felt at the time she wrote that note (I’m evil I did this on purpose) that everybody could think she was evil and did this because she may have made mistakes. She said it’s what she thinks everybody else was thinking about her - so she is texting them all, going out with them all? Where did that impression come from then? When they ask her about the on purpose she never answers why she put that. Never.
On the stand there was no mention of it being what she thought other people were thinking about her. But how she viewed herself if she had made a mistake but she knew she hadn’t. Like @nosycowmoo says, I’m really gutted that Nick didn’t push her on the on purpose part of that note because there truly is no innocent explanation for it at all.

So when she stands up there and says I got up at the sound of his voice cos I was ill, I was arrested in my nightie..oh I don’t know why I lied about that.. I was just friends with Noname even though I wrote I loved him over and over - it’s the same bleeping nonsense as saying I wrote “I’m evil, I killed them on purpose” about mistakes.
 
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Is it possible she was referring to a feeling of isolation rather than literal isolation? I’ve had times where I seem to be active socially but anything but really.
That would be an absolutely normal feeling, humanising, everyone gets that feeling, but she didn't say that!

Even BM gave her the opportunity when he said 'you have an active social life' she could have said "in photos I was smiling but inside I was devastated, lonely, terrified, unable to really talk to anyone, putting on an outward appearance that didn't match how I was feeling".

He honestly must have spent last night banging his head off his desk!
 
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So, it started… we will start with text messages after your removal from the unit, then the gang of 4 doctors, searches for parents and the circumstances in which she was isolated and then after the arrest. and he said so there you go that’s your menu I literally LOL’d and wasn’t the only one!!!!

She wasn’t as narky today she somehow seemed a bit more relaxed, not as much blinking either. She did seem to be putting her foot in it a bit today if I’m honest.

The pj comments came across well (for prosecution) and she was adamant she did not want the video showing. She knew she’d messed up there.

The isolated part was very telling. London visits and meet ups and messages with hearts to doctor no name (jeez nearly wrote his name!) it made her look silly if I’m honest and did it’s job of showing how many minor things she’s willing to lie about.

Messages immediately to 2 friends and doctor no name even though she was told to talk to anyone. Then loads of messages and meet ups and group messages to a big group of different staff. She had a hectic social life if I’m honest and she has repeatedly said how isolated she was. So he really did show how easily she lies over things.

The note I was shocked he didn’t say about the on purpose part and it seemed quite mild he could’ve really gone to town but didn’t.

Then BM started and I can’t for the life of me remember 2 of the parts that I thought he helped the prosecution out (I was genuinely so confused why he would make her look more guilty but my stupid adhd brain can’t remember 😭)

However he said that one part about babies being unwell 2 nights in a row was a mistake, that the prosecution had that part wrong and they were not unwell in both nights.

Then he said DID YOU AGREE TO THAT EVEN THOUGH IT WAS WRONG… she said YES, he then said why did you agree to an inaccurate summary of evidence and she said I CANT ANSWER THAT I DONT KNOW.

Now unless he can think up something clever about that, then it sounds like that went in the prosecutions favour!

I can see there’s been lots of talk of the lies about social life etc not being important in a murder trial… but she’s under oath, to tell nothing but the truth and she hasn’t, over and over lies on lies.

Oh and finally when I say how nicely BNE talks to her WELL!!! BM has a MUCH harsher voice and tone.

Court was almost full, lots of new faces. Not on till Wednesday now

The bit about where he challenges her on accepting untrue accounts and her reply she doesn't know why...

Is he trying to do damage limitation in her lies, showing that she just sometimes blithely accepts things even if they aren't true?! That she must therefore be struggling on the stand and perhaps part of her alleged PTSD? Not sure jury will buy that, but can't see why else he would take that line of questioning to her otherwise, as I would say it favours the prosecution more
 
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Finally got caught up with the last thread and holy actual mother of duck that was an emotional roller-coaster. BNE I honestly salute you. You sir are an absolute King for the way you destroyed lucifer on the stand and did the babies and their families proud
 
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@nosycowmoo thank you for the update.
It’s fantastic to hear from a tattler insider all the bits the reporting doesn’t include.

The reporting said there were some pauses in LL’s answers and to me it reads like BNE got her to admit to lying on the stand twice, how did that go down?

From the live reporting:
Letby was told she could only have contact with a limited number of people from the unit.

"Did you abide by the direction?" Mr Johnson asks.

After a pause, Letby replies: "Yes."

"So you didn't have contact with anyone but the people you were told you could have contact with?"

"At that very beginning part yes but it did change as time went on," Letby says.

The prosecution says Letby was "given a document this morning".

"What's in the document?" Mr Johnson says.

After a pause, she replies: "My social life."

The prosecution says this "disproves" what Letby has previously said about her contact with the unit.

"I disagree," she says.

Letby is asked if she was "looking for sympathy" when she told the jury she had been cut off and isolated from her friends.

"Yes, it was a very difficult time," she says.

"You thought you'd get sympathy by telling a lie," says Mr Johnson.

"No."

"Was it just a mistake?"

"Yes."


The document, the prosecution says, contains examples of Letby "out drinking" and "going on days out" with members of the neonatal unit.

One day she went to London with the male colleague she has previously denied was her boyfriend.

And then this bit too:
The prosecution says Letby wasn't taken away in her pyjamas at all. Letby agrees this was the case.

"Why did you lie to the jury about it?" Mr Johnson asks.

"I don't know."


Mr Johnson calls Letby a "very calculating woman" who "tells lies deliberately".

What a day! Couldn’t sleep well last night thinking about all of this and those poor parents. As time goes on and we hear more I’m confident the jury will make the right decision and LL will never see the light of day again.
 
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Can we just remove not guilty and have ‘guilty’, ‘guilty’ and ‘if you choose this leave tattle we don’t need your bad energy’
I deifnitely considered things like - not guilty because I’m an idiot. Not guilty because I have no critical thinking skills 🤣🤣
 
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The bit about where he challenges her on accepting untrue accounts and her reply she doesn't know why...

Is he trying to do damage limitation in her lies, showing that she just sometimes blithely accepts things even if they aren't true?! That she must therefore be struggling on the stand and perhaps part of her alleged PTSD? Not sure jury will buy that, but can't see why else he would take that line of questioning to her otherwise, as I would say it favours the prosecution more
He was probably hoping she'd say she was confused, tired, her brain is fogged from all the PTSD etc but instead she like 'err duck knows mate, just lie all the time don't I'
 
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@nosycowmoo thank you for the update.
It’s fantastic to hear from a tattler insider all the bits the reporting doesn’t include.

The reporting said there were some pauses in LL’s answers and to me it reads like BNE got her to admit to lying on the stand twice, how did that go down?

From the live reporting:
Letby was told she could only have contact with a limited number of people from the unit.

"Did you abide by the direction?" Mr Johnson asks.

After a pause, Letby replies: "Yes."

"So you didn't have contact with anyone but the people you were told you could have contact with?"

"At that very beginning part yes but it did change as time went on," Letby says.

The prosecution says Letby was "given a document this morning".

"What's in the document?" Mr Johnson says.

After a pause, she replies: "My social life."

The prosecution says this "disproves" what Letby has previously said about her contact with the unit.

"I disagree," she says.

Letby is asked if she was "looking for sympathy" when she told the jury she had been cut off and isolated from her friends.

"Yes, it was a very difficult time," she says.

"You thought you'd get sympathy by telling a lie," says Mr Johnson.

"No."

"Was it just a mistake?"

"Yes."


The document, the prosecution says, contains examples of Letby "out drinking" and "going on days out" with members of the neonatal unit.

One day she went to London with the male colleague she has previously denied was her boyfriend.

And then this bit too:
The prosecution says Letby wasn't taken away in her pyjamas at all. Letby agrees this was the case.

"Why did you lie to the jury about it?" Mr Johnson asks.

"I don't know."


Mr Johnson calls Letby a "very calculating woman" who "tells lies deliberately".

What a day! Couldn’t sleep well last night thinking about all of this and those poor parents. As time goes on and we hear more I’m confident the jury will make the right decision and LL will never see the light of day again.
He did she literally agreed to some of the lies, she just un/ravelled. I think because she knew it was the last day her guard was down a lot. Lots of raised eyebrows and ooh 👀 moments. BNE brought it yesterday!
 
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Dropping in to add my guilty vote.

Hoping the jury see it the same way and this trial doesn’t go on for too much longer for the parents’ sake.
 
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@nosycowmoo is it true her mask slipped a bit when she was questioned on the spelling of the parents name?
Yeah @nosycowmoo would love to know how this bit went down! I don’t know how anybody could think she’d be spelling an unusual name years and months later. She clearly checked her collection.
 
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Need title editing as it’s missing #38

I have some time (presume the usual 20 mins) to edit poll options if anybody wants any adding or changing!
urgghhh Toff this was not what we agreed on the last thread! Poll was supposed to be

Guilty
Guilty
Guilty
I’m an hole….. or something to that effect 🤭😆
 
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