Lucy Letby Case #3

[OH.FFS]

Each time she is questioned, by the police, regarding searching the parents of a baby, she doesn’t recall doing it. If it was a regular thing she’d reply, I search out most, if not all, parents’ of the babies that come through neonatal. But she doesn’t. She simply says, I don’t recall doing it … this reply is extremely suspicious to me because these are not isolated searches of one parent, these are repeated searches of all babies being murdered or attempted to be.

 

[miss_demeanour]

how is anything you've just said relevant to this case?

some people have mentioned maunchausens? Why is your put down relevant?

 

[MmmB777]

The hospitals failings do absolutely nothing to persuade me of her innocence. What I have experience of is that ABSOLUTELY somebody wanting to cause harm to others will seek out those most vulnerable. The fact the trust, hospital and unit were chaotic or badly organised and the fact there probably is no other victim more vulnerable than premature already sick babies left alone would completely appeal to somebody that had desires to harm. People like that will centre themselves somewhere they can operate more easily. That to me is much less outlandish than it being a huge conspiracy or cover up because absolutely nobody is coming out of this looking better.

 

[StatusWoe]

People bringing race into it is plain weird
We've discussed here the fact she's not ugly, as it were. Face like a bag of spanners and we may view her differently But her colour? Irrelevant
Are they saying BME women can't be beautiful?

Her colour is definitely not irrelevant. It's well-known that black people are treated differently by the media and justice system - more likely to be convicted by a jury, for one thing. They're not talking about physical attractiveness. They're making the point that her whiteness makes her seem less suspect in some (but not all) people's eyes.

 

[I’mThankyou_]

If any of you are struggling with this, I know alot are following out of curiosity but unwatch the thread for a while and step away from your phones.
The opening statements are quite distressing which leads me to believe when we see each individual count the evidence along side of these will not be nice.
Please don't harm your mental health for the sake of morbid curiosity

 

[dustyrhodes]

In all my years 31 of them working for the NHS I have never ever heard anyone say 'trust me I'm a nurse' to a patient. Just saying.

 

[Its_Me]

I’m the same. My gut feeling is she’s guilty, always has been since it all came about, I’ve never looked at her and thought aw she doesn’t look like she could do that. She looks like a smug bitch to me and I can definitely see being the hero nurse as a motive. But I’m prepared for my mind to change.

Can’t quote it now because the threads locked but @Lucyxxxx its a reply to your comment about thinking she’s the scape goat. I think the opposite! I don’t know why but I think she’s done this. It’s the digging up her garden for me why on earth would they do that

 

[Windowtothewall]

Hello, been lurking here and find this case really depressing. Seen many posts saying she's a scapegoat but wanted to point out that she can't be because:

• The hospital initiated the police investigation themselves. They didn't need to. They have one review done by the RCPCH that gave recommendations on improvements to reduce neo natal deaths. They could have just stuck with that report as the reason deaths were increasing, as no one was blaming anyone. If they wanted to hush it up that was their chance. They brought in the the police themselves.
• Her colleagues had suspicions about her some months before the RCPCH review began. And a year before the police review began. So even before the hospital leadership knew anything, her own doctors/nurses were questioning her behaviour. So not like the police came in, and they needed to pin the blame on someone so blamed her.
• The police would have had to review all the ward's case files as on many of these charges she was not the designated nurse. So they couldn't have just picked 'LL cases' by looking through her case files only. They'd have to review each one and read the detailed notes/interview people to find where she was involved, even when not supposed to. If anyone else was suspicious, they would have spoken to them too and since no one else has been arrested, means there isn't anyone.
• She was often the only person in the room with the patients. They have door records of who went in and out, so would know if someone else had the same opportunity. They wouldn't be able to cover it up as the door records are electronic - you'd have to tamper with all of them, every day for a whole year to avoid detection. Also she herself doesn't deny being there. So a doctor or colleague couldn't be responsible if they weren't in the room, and she hasn't mentioned it in her notes or at interview.
• If she is found guilty, the parents can still sue the hospital in a civil suit. Even if she isn't they still could. So blaming her won't protect the hospital. It would have been far easier to force a transfer for her, hush it all up, then get the police involved.
• The case has taken 7 years and is still ongoing - will be for another few years. It has cost millions of pounds. Involved police, medical professionals and civilians. Police wouldn't assign budget and resources like this for a hospital cover up. They have nothing to gain.

Also seen comments questioning how the hospital took so long to do anything:

• It's very difficult in the public sector to just suspend or sack someone. You need evidence of wrong doing and to show you have followed all the right HR procedures. Or you'd have to deal with wrongful dismissal tribunals, unions getting involved etc. Also you have to think from the perspective of her colleagues - even if you suspect something is not right, it's a huge leap to think they are deliberately hurting patients. You wouldn't want to blame them and ruin their career on a hunch. It seems like in Feb the doctor had suspicions, and then soon after her shifts changed. This was probably because on the day shift they felt more people would be around as witnesses, so that might stop her, or they thought the night shifts were tiring her out and she was making errors. Not clear. I do agree she should have been more closely supervised certainly! I did read somewhere that they also wanted to introduce CCTV but the medical staff didn't want that as it showed a lack of trust. I know unions kick off about stuff like this so it isn't easy to do.

Am uncertain on her guilt. But convinced she was behaving unethically/unprofessionally for sure. Irrespective of the charges, she should have undergone a performance and conduct review. The amount of personal patient information she had at home, was sharing on text and facebook is shocking to me. These are not secure methods. These are sackable offences in many industries. Also, her not following instructions and protocols is also shocking to me. She can't have been this overworked and prone to error if she was complaining to people that she was getting bored, and had so much time to attend to cases not her own. So I would have expected her to be more proactive in raising issues to leadership, being more thorough and following protocol after the first few deaths. None of this means she's guilty of murder/attempted murder though. I just question her work ethic based on what has been shared.

 

[avabella]

Why would she want a photo of a sympathy card she had sent!?

Just playing devils advocate - maybe she had texted a friend to say 'does this look ok to send?' etc. I could see myself snapping a pic of something to send a pal.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Tbh it doesn't surprise me how negligent hospitals can be. I mean look at how negligent some Dr's can be with their own kids. *glares at Gerry and Kate*.

 

[Deeznutslol]

As many times I choose to offer my opinion using my professional knowledge. NEXT

I don’t believe you’re any type of medical professional for one second tbh, NEXT.

 

[dustyrhodes]

No no no no no all shades of wrong, Facebook, sympathy cards, trust me I'm a nurse, texting about baby deaths to her colleague making it all about her. I'm sorry, I know circumstantial but all pointing in one direction for me at the moment. We must resign ourselves to the possibility of a psychopath at work here.

 

[AlanBanan]

Where are people getting the idea that she’s a loner? She clearly had friends in and outside of work, there’s literally years of photos on her social media that documents she had friends. She even had a boyfriend at the time she was first arrested.

I think people are trying to latch onto the idea that she’s a “loner” because it’s so ingrained into us from true crime documentaries, films and series that only weird inept people with no friends or social life can commit such things. Many serial killers were family men with wives and lots of friends in their life and work. It is just a common misconception that people who kill can’t be likeable or have no social skills, because we want to believe that we wouldn’t be so stupid to be friends with someone so disturbed and evil and that our gut would tell us something is off about them.

Fun fact serial killers don’t tell people they associate with that they’re murderers, they also can mask their true behaviour very well. Especially when they’ve gotten away with it multiple times.

 

[e.l.lofthouse]

I remember an early mention of a partner, I’ll go off and google….

as for her parents I find it odd they’re holding hands going in and out of court everyday, I bet they’ve been told to do that.

Their CHILD is on trial for MURDERING babies. She's their only child. They probably need the support. I can't even believe their support for each other is coming into question

 

[WonderShade18]

I'm really struggling with Child I guys. I may have to check out. I can't believe what I am hearing.

 

[just_nicole]

Genuinely looks like this trial could end more then just Lucy's career.

I am gobsmacked at the amount of failings by the hospital and her colleagues.

I am guessing the last case to be detailed will be really horrific given how much had been noticed but not noted thus far.

Those who are feeling triggered remember to take a step back as and when you need to for your own wellbeing

 

[Motherofpigs]

These poor babies were all failed by the hospital. LL was taken off of night shift, as they had concerns. Why was she allowed to still be at work AT ALL if they had concerns about her potentially harming babies? If she had been suspended pending investigation there and then,o then babies L, M, N, O, P & Q would potentially not have been harmed (if we are working on the assumption that she is guilty). What the hell were they thinking?

Do I think she is guilty? Yes I believe she is. Do I think the hospital is guilty of negligence and should also be held to account? Yes, most definitely. They will probably get away with it, which is outrageous.

 

[AlanBanan]

I reckon those were just the pics she chose to upload on FB, make her life look fun like everyone else does

Yeah but doesn’t everyone do that? I’m not going to post a picture of me in my pyjamas with a cigarette in my mouth being a right miserable cow. I’m going to upload pictures of me with friends and having a laugh.

I don’t think what pics she decided to upload to her Facebook page holds any value or significance to her nature or the case. If she wasn’t up for murdering infants in court, you wouldn’t think twice about those photos.

 

[bringingdownthebs]

This makes sense. Honestly, maybe she didn't actually mean to kill them. The drama ends with death. Wouldn't a child having collapse after collapse, or being suspended between life and death for hours be more exciting for her? Maybe that's what she was doing. Making it as serious as possible for as long as possible, without killing them - except she did. Many times. Accidentally on purpose.

you might be onto something there. My partner, who is a surgeon, had an interesting take on it when we were discussing it last night. He thinks in the first instance (potentially not even one of the babies named in court) she accidentally caused a baby’s death. He believes it then had such an impact on her mentally that she started to take risks with other babies lives to see if the doctors could bring them back from the brink… with her being the one to raise the alarm each time and gain that almost hero worship from her colleagues and the parents of the babies. It’s interesting that he believes she’s guilty as he’s always the first person to take the side of any medical professional in a case like this!

 

[Magurndy]

One thing about professionals. They are birds of a feather and they flock together. They can and do single people out for terrible things, of this magnitude? Maybe not? Would I put it past them fully? No.

As I've said before it would be a lot easier for a hospital to say there were failings and then blame one nurse who was particularly negligent. Hospitals can sue members of staff for failing to follow protocols. In order to accuse someone of murder the bar is much much higher and would require a lot more collusion and also of course being in contempt of court which is a crime. Taking civil action against a failing staff member is not completely uncommon especially if the hospital has been fined for failing and then they believe it's down to one or two individuals hence why all medical professionals need indemnity insurance. I used to be a rep for the professional union for my health profession.

Also, as mad as it sounds its actually better for a hospital to hold their hands up and say yes, there were failings, we found the staff member mainly responsible and have fired them or taken them to court, rather than saying oops we let a murderer continue working for months. Again, of course she may not be guilty but from a legal perspective for the trust using someone as a scapegoat through a murder charge does not make any sense.