Lucy Letby case #28

[Treesy19]

Imagine what thread number we’d be on if Dave Jagger had the reporting reigns though.

 

[LittleMy]

Imagine what thread number we’d be on if Dave Jagger had the reporting reigns though.

Fastest hands in the North.

 

[Danica Catrick]

I'm with you 100% and my thinking has not changed since the beginning. Even during the opening statement I was very concerned about how robust the prosecution's case was and it has transpired that it is even flimsier than I initially thought. There is no evidence that any of these children were murdered, let alone by her, and I feel she has been made a scapegoat for a poorly performing unit. I rarely post here any more as frankly I cannot abide the nonsensical and purely imagined insights into her character by people who know absolutely nothing about her, but seem to think they can tell a lot by looking at pictures of inherited wallpaper.

This is where I was when I first started following this case. I was worried that there wasn't the evidence to conclusively prove one way or the other, and that either a murderer would go free or an innocent woman would have suspicion hanging over her for the rest of her life.

I was on the fence for a long time, but her behaviour around Dr Noname at times made me suspicious (e.g. when he's stabilised a baby, leaves to get a coffee with a female colleague, and the baby unexpectedly collapses again...). The triplets were what sealed it for me though. She's on holiday. No deaths on the ward. She returns and there are two deaths in two days, and she's involved in both babies care.

Personally I enjoy making fun of her imagined character, we need something to lighten the mood or we'd just be depressed by the horror of it all.
---

The hospital have soooo much to answer for. I’m only guessing here but I think it was a combination of a few things that made them not do anything sooner.

These are just my thoughts btw -
- it was chaotic & had many issues but no one wanted to actually take any responsibility & get some checks done through fear of being thrown under the bus & losing their own jobs (senior management)

- they couldn’t afford to take a staff member, who worked every shift under the sun of an already understaffed unit, off because of a “hunch”

- insulin: as bad as it sounds, it wasn’t taken further as the baby survived. Let’s just push it under the carpet so the parents don’t find out & put a claim in.

- no one there wanted to think they had a serial killer running about

- also, it was being raised. But higher up the chain weren’t listening. In hindsight, should those drs have bypassed the chain of command & got the police involved? Yes. Why didn’t they do that? Well they probably thought it was accidental so no police but the need to retrain her etc

- I believe (I might be wrong) that a lot of the babies were dealt with by different drs so it took some time to actually make a connection. But even when that happened, it appeared the higher management wanted to safe face & like some people have expressed on here who don’t actually know LL in the slightest, they didn’t want to believe one of their “best nurses” was at fault

Fantastic post @IGiveUp22. You've summed up a lot of thoughts I've had more clearly and succinctly than I ever could

 

[Tofino]

Imagine what thread number we’d be on if Dave Jagger had the reporting reigns though.

the Wiki would also be about five times the size it already is!

 

[Tangent Tiger]

Complete aside but I can't believe the tabloids described her bedroom as messy

It looks like 5 minutes would straighten it up. You should see mine!

 

[Souffle]

There is so much evidence. It’s taken 6 months for the prosecution. None of the babies were expected to die (I’d only exclude poor baby K possibly) or have life threatening problems out of nowhere.
There are mountains of records to show they were on upward trends with health, that their stats, gasses obs were all ok - they all have to be wrong. Mountains of evidence from witnesses at the hosp ranging from parents, consultants, medics from different hospitals, all explaining that the responses to resus were insane, they’ve never seen things like it before or since, they were shocked, their babies went repeatedly from stable to deaths door, lots of the time it’s when they’ve just decided to go home or get food. Every single one was a shock and unexpected. They have compelling forensic evidence of large amounts of air. Where it’s there in veins, she has just accessed veins. There’s a large bubble of air by baby D’s catheter. There is a line of air down the spine to the rectum. Air comparable with car crashes and overwhelming infection. Where babies were fed by Letby, their stomachs and bowels are inflated like balloons. CPAP doesn’t kill 33 week old 4lb babies on low setting after a couple of days. It doesn’t happen. Or there would be dead babies up and down the country. Prem babies life expectancy would be horrendous.
A lot of the babies had an over 90% chance of survival and would still have been treated at CoCH after the downgrade. So then we’re into possibility vs probability. Even if you want to believe that (and it’s not an insult it’s a fact that if you think Letby is innocent it’s all chance) this is pure coincidence even related to Letby working overtime, you surely have to accept that this all down to her bad luck is really really slim. Her colleagues found it shocking it was all happening to her. She didn’t seem to worry until the very end.
I have seen absolutely nobody explain the triplets deaths? Or what conceivable innocent scenario there is for the insulin? Even if you’d like to say
Letby herself incompetently gave insulin at a lethal dose, inappropriately and without a prescription… this isn’t just negligence, she asks for constant updates about the baby’s hypo all day and night. Nobody did that by accident. It’s not possible and it’s not claimed by defence. The next dose was higher. Someone wanted to finish the job. If you think it could have been the shift leader, who is still a senior neonatal lead, quite frankly that’s on a par with swastika gardens imo!
You’re totally right about the sheets and the Facebook searches, they’re far more easy to explain away although personally I absolutely cannot! Especially when these things are incredibly common in cases of healthcare serial killers.
I find it totally mind boggling that someone could be more compelled by Letby’s waterworks and her saying it’s just normal for her to search people and just had no idea she had hundreds of illegal docs and was just so so upset when she tucked her I’m evil note into her diary.. than all the evidence we’ve heard that these babies were killed.
I would really like to know.. if people are able to accept that these babies were killed or harmed by air embolism, or even if there was a hypothetical case of babies being killed by air embolism, what evidence would you expect to see that is not in this case?
- fleeting embolism rashes
- pale and unusual mottling
- unusual and inexplicable air at PM
- pain, screaming, signs of discomfort
- breathing and chest wall moving but heart stopping
- strange responses to resus - as if something has passed through and begin to breathe again.
-poor outcomes, death, brain damage
- sudden deterioration
- no soft signs of infection, on antibiotics, recovering
- prominent veins
- one person having accessed circulation or been found alone with the patient before the event.
- one person frequently around the collapses

Just catching up but just wanted to say “well said”

 

[ololo]

i don’t know why but this is who Dr NN reminds me of

 

[pissedandsad]

Jesus! Who found it in the street and who grassed?I am actually shocked how many nurses with a public account admit that they have hand overs and say it’s normal she had that manytheres no excuse to just say I am messy and unorganised if she had a shredder and moved them to different bags like just dispose of them?! Also when she said she has a hard time getting rid of stuff I took that as an attachment thing. Why would you be attached to random hand overs

If she gets off and goes back to nursing I am selling up and shipping out! I'm going to go to bloody Virginia with @pissedandsad and this country can piss off.

But I really do have faith in our justice system it may be flawed but I think they'll reach the right verdict. They've just got to.

You crack me up! Still waiting for you no

No it doesn't. I'm trying to think what I would write if a baby had died under my care. I mean at the point she wrote it was presumably before she was arrested so had no idea what was going to happen. Say it happened at the point she felt she was being blamed. I would have written something like 'how on earth did that happen, did I do anything wrong'. But I'm not prone to frantic scribbles so am unlikely to have written anything. I don't think there is an innocent explanation for that sentence.

No way is that sentence one written by an innocent person.
---

The fact that nothing was done to combat this shows that even the senior staff thought the rise in deaths was due to the hospital being rit, how can the death rate triple senior staff be warned about what’s going on and still do nothing. There must have been something seriously wrong at this hospital for the seniors to think that the death rate could triple and it wasn’t something to make a fuss about

Hospitals lose patients, local support, government funding, grants, etc. - business in general declines when news of murders and possible lawsuits hit the streets. Perhaps a new wing is tentatively funded and news of a rogue nurse starts circulating - funding withdrawn. These are profit & reputation/community standing issues, and decisions to let the individual simply move on brings up ethical questions no one seems ready to answer. Yet this is generally their course: investigate, fire for sime obscure reason, get rid of the problem in your hospital. But do not call in police. The boards in these cases have put profit before the patients they have promised to serve.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

Has FB been closed down?

I’m losing the will to live. I’m going to start blubbering like LL after a killing scapegoated spree soon.
Oh woe (is me), woe (is me) and thrice woe (is me). Help me Tiny boy

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

@MmmB777 saw this and thought of you! have you seen it? Just saw it mentioned on Twitter. Don’t think it’s made UK news as seems early stages.

Nurse arrested in Assen hospital probe into patient deaths - DutchNews.nl

A 30-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of involvement in the death of several patients at the Wilhelmina Ziekenhuis in Assen during the coronavirus pandemic, the public prosecution department said on Thursday. According to the AD, which has spoken to relatives of one of the victims, up...

www.dutchnews.nl

God covid19 provided the perfect cover for these types of people

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

duck me I’ve finally managed to catch up! Slow down gang - I honestly don’t have enough hours in the day anymore

I don’t really have any thing more to add, not surprised she is giving evidence, did think she would. Not buying the nice Lucy act she is evil through and through.

I see we are back to the insulin discussion, not going to go in depth about all this again, but think it is worth highlighting that Dr Ravi wasn’t even aware of the insulin results at the time (he Found out much later perhaps even during the trial- can someone clarify?), which suggests to me the c-peptide/insulin level tests were not at all common knowledge among the team.

 

[MmmB777]

@MmmB777 saw this and thought of you! have you seen it? Just saw it mentioned on Twitter. Don’t think it’s made UK news as seems early stages.

Nurse arrested in Assen hospital probe into patient deaths - DutchNews.nl

A 30-year-old man has been arrested on suspicion of involvement in the death of several patients at the Wilhelmina Ziekenhuis in Assen during the coronavirus pandemic, the public prosecution department said on Thursday. According to the AD, which has spoken to relatives of one of the victims, up...

www.dutchnews.nl

At least 24 deaths being investigated. At least 2 years of offending. At least 23 deaths where nobody “saw him doing anything”. Every one of those deaths until he was caught will have been given a medically plausible cause of death, even if that was ‘inconclusive’. Every time someone died people will have missed or explained away the significance of certain factors leading up to the event. I’d put money on there having been one or two people saying wtf is going on.
---

duck me I’ve finally managed to catch up! Slow down gang - I honestly don’t have enough hours in the day anymore

I don’t really have any thing more to add, not surprised she is giving evidence, did think she would. Not buying the nice Lucy act she is evil through and through.

I see we are back to the insulin discussion, not going to go in depth about all this again, but think it is worth highlighting that Dr Ravi wasn’t even aware of the insulin results at the time (he Found out much later perhaps even during the trial- can someone clarify?), which suggests to me the c-peptide/insulin level tests were not at all common knowledge among the team.

If I felt I was under suspicion of either lots of awful care or actual deliberate harm towards babies, killing them.. I would have been absolutely overwhelmed when police informed me babies had been poisoned too. Imagine the panic and shock. You’ve felt confident you could explain you’d done nothing at all deliberate because you’d never dream of it and there was of course natural normal reasons the babies sadly didn’t make it and then you’re suddenly faced with finding this out and you were on shift again!! And that it means one of your colleagues you were pals with was in fact a poisoner!
Letby “it wasn’t me that did that”

 

[Windowtothewall]

I'm with you 100% and my thinking has not changed since the beginning. Even during the opening statement I was very concerned about how robust the prosecution's case was and it has transpired that it is even flimsier than I initially thought. There is no evidence that any of these children were murdered, let alone by her, and I feel she has been made a scapegoat for a poorly performing unit. I rarely post here any more as frankly I cannot abide the nonsensical and purely imagined insights into her character by people who know absolutely nothing about her, but seem to think they can tell a lot by looking at pictures of inherited wallpaper.

Scapegoated by who?

The doctors - Why would they need to scapegoat her, who was blaming them?
Nursing director - Oh right, she fought to keep her on
Management - Oh right, they fought to keep her on

I know, it must have been the city of Chester! After they got invaded by aliens who were so disgusted by her wallpaper, they decided to burn down the whole city unless the people killed babies and blamed her. All the police and experts are just body snatchers, don’t you know.

 

[IamSpartacus]

The scapegoat argument is nonsense IMO. The reputation of the COCH is in tatters due to this.

 

[November2019]

Hoping we’ll get to see the “timeline” Letby said she had made when first put under clinical supervision. She seemed to move quickly from “they have nothing on me” “they’ll look silly” to “I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough”…

 

[Tofino]

This is a transcript from the podcast. You really have to look at some of the subtleties. BM appears to ask her about the killed them on purpose. But rather than ask her ‘why did you write on purpose’ which her answer could have incriminated her, he asked her if she had done something intentional to harm them. Much safer for her to be able to just answer ‘no’ than try to explain the on purpose bit.

Yet he’s happy to ask ‘why did you write not good enough’ - because it’s easier to answer that than answer the on purpose bit if you are trying to come across sad and innocent. It might explain why some people she’s come across plausible, because she’s only being asked questions that might have a plausible answer!

Anyway I can’t wait for NJ to ask directly why she wrote on purpose!


BM - you wrote ‘I killed them on purpose because I’m not good enough’ had you done something intentionally to harm or kill them?

LL - No

BM - why did you think you may not be good enough?

LL - because that was the suggestion throughout that I’d been removed from the unit, that I’d done something wrong. That was what was being insinuated to me.

BM - why had you written ‘not good enough’ and underlined it

LL - that was my overwhelming thoughts feeling about myself at the time. That I wasn’t good enough

BM - why?

LL - because the way people made me feel.

 

[lampielooloo]

Wandered over to fb for a support group I'm in (only reason I keep it) and said I'd check in on the trial group too, boy was I sorry
Spotted this while I was there though, apologies if it's been posted already I can't keep up here this week!
Looking forward to hearing uncensored stories about LL when the trial ends, there's just no way she kept up the 'nice Lucy' facade always IMO, she strikes me as an actual bunny boiler.

 

[Daisydunn15]

It's really crappy to see people expressing their opinions and people responding with laughing reactions or implying that they don't understand or can't read the wiki. Especially when people may not have posted for a while. I really don't understand why people take it so personally that someone has a different interpretation of the evidence.

I remain unsure for lots of reasons, I hope after following for so long I can fall on G/NG by the end of the trial but either way I'm happy to accept the jury's verdict as correct, given that they have heard so much more than we have.

 

[MmmB777]

The opinion was we all think she’s guilty cos of her wallpaper. It was directly mocking people for their opinion. Why isn’t that crappy? Nobody needs to be the reaction police either ok to share your opinion, ok for people to think it’s crazy. My opinions have been ridiculed lots of times.

 

[Windowtothewall]

I think any poster that refers to others opinions and insights as “nonsensical and purely imagined” is just asking to be mocked for their own